Author Topic: Variator Notching  (Read 17273 times)

Shaka

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Variator Notching
« on: April 06, 2010, 02:48:37 AM »
As many of you have seen from a few leaks on other threads,  I have been experimenting with a technique called variator notching.   The idea behind it is to elongate the roller ramps.  This enables the rollers to travel further thus pushing the pulley faces closer together and allowing the belt to ride all the way to the top of the pulley face.

On my initial trial with just roughly filed and sanded ramps I used my Dr. Pulley sliders and did actually get the belt riding up higher on the pulley faces, but still about 4mm from the edge.  Previously it had been running almost 8mm from the edge.  I also gained about 2-3mph faster top speed as compared to the Malossi multivar I run normally.  I tested this by taking a permanent marker and drawing radial lines across the variator face and measuring how much of the line was left after the test run. 

I was pretty exited about my first test run with the stock notched variator as it seemed to out-perform my Malossi!  I then proceeded to file and finish sand the ramps smoother.  In doing so, I ended up removing a little bit more material off the ends of the ramps.  I also took about .3-.5mm off the center of the face side to allow the pulley halves to come a little bit closer together.

With high hopes I re-installed the notched variator this afternoon to give it another test run.  I started the scoot and reved it a bit while on the center stand.  Then there was a change in noise, and the engine wanted to stall, didn't sound good!  I immediately killed the engine and pulled the cvt cover back off.  Two of my sliders had wedged sideways at the end of the ramp!

For now I'm going to have to call my experiment a Fail!  I still have reason to believe that this technique works and if done the proper way will out-perform many of the performance variators on the market.  I think I just took about 1mm too much material off!  I think even the way mine is now it may work with rollers instead of sliders.  I just don't have any rollers the correct weight to get a good comparison right now.

I think that ultimately, variator notching does work and is a viable performance enhancement if done very carefully!  It may take a bit of trial and error to get it right.  If you're on a budget and are considering buying a performance variator anyways, you may as well give it shot.  It could very well save you some money!  If it doesn't work, you're back were you started buying an new performance one!  I will however say that it is a very time consuming process and there is no way to really make it any faster.  If you try and remove too much material too quickly you'll most likely screw it up!  Take your time with a file and sandpaper, don't bust out the hacksaw and dremel!

I'm attaching a few pics.  The first one is of my roughly cut ramps.  This is the point at which I made my initial test.   Second is the after much more sanding and filing.  The cut aways are a little larger at this point, but this allowed for a smoother ramp.  This is the point at which I had the slider get wedged.  Third is of the face showing where I removed the .5mm around the center.

sidthesloth

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Re: Variator Notching
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2010, 03:33:00 AM »
G'Day Shaka, sad that it didn't work this time but you are on the right track, a little fine tuning and lots of patience and you will be onto a good thing. All the best with it.
ZX50, 47mm cyl. kit, TZR50 CDI. Michelin Pilot Sport tyres,
Next performance mod; pumping the tyres up.

Shaka

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Re: Variator Notching
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2010, 03:42:56 AM »
Thanks Sid!  Now if only I had another spare variator and another 10 or so hours! ;)  I may try it again with some rollers just to see if they stay in without twisting sideways.  I think the pointed end on the slider just got stuck hanging out!  I've seen it done with good results, so I know if done right it works! 

sidthesloth

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Re: Variator Notching
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2010, 03:45:37 AM »
Is it not worth trying what you already have with rollers?
ZX50, 47mm cyl. kit, TZR50 CDI. Michelin Pilot Sport tyres,
Next performance mod; pumping the tyres up.

Shaka

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Re: Variator Notching
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2010, 04:02:22 AM »
I just don't have any 8.5g rollers so I wouldn't really get a good gauge of performance.  I may try with some 9g rollers I have, but they are new, so I don't really want to use them.

zombie

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Re: Variator Notching
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2010, 04:22:26 AM »
Anyone have any spare rollers? The workmanship looks terrific! I see your point about the wedges getting hung tho. I would bet the farm it works w/ rollers! Thanks for sharing it also. It may spark someone to collaborate w/ you putting the multi-var people out of business... At least in our circles.
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

sidthesloth

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Re: Variator Notching
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2010, 04:28:23 AM »
Check out scooter assassins on ebay, rollers $6.90 a set. My old ones are a little less than round, full of flat spots.
ZX50, 47mm cyl. kit, TZR50 CDI. Michelin Pilot Sport tyres,
Next performance mod; pumping the tyres up.

Shaka

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Re: Variator Notching
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2010, 04:59:42 AM »
Thanks for the positive feedback guys!  I feel kinda bad it didn't work out!  I put a lot of time into it!  That's the way it goes though!  I'm certain if I had another variator to play around with I could do it much better!  There are so many places I feel I could improve!  You only learn from experience though, at least I do!  I definitely think it will work better with rollers though!  I just don't really want to put any money into this project, it was supposed to be just an experiment!  By putting a roller in it, I can't make it fall out or twist sideways by hand.  Centrifugal forces can do funny things though!

sidthesloth

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Re: Variator Notching
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2010, 06:18:28 AM »
Hey, Shaka, I dont think you can say it didnt work, not yet anyway, just not quite there yet. look at different sized rollers, there may be something that works better with what you have.
ZX50, 47mm cyl. kit, TZR50 CDI. Michelin Pilot Sport tyres,
Next performance mod; pumping the tyres up.

topaz6turbo

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Re: Variator Notching
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2010, 09:45:15 AM »
Im willing to donate a 3000km old factory variator to the cause if its of any use. Am in Oz so freight will hurt too much maybe, but like the idea and what to see the outcome. C`mon, we all want more speed dont we?? Get on board and help the man help us!
Holty

zombie

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Re: Variator Notching
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2010, 03:13:04 PM »
Good lookin out Brother! They say it's a small world, but it still seems too big at times!
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

sidthesloth

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Re: Variator Notching
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2010, 10:05:42 PM »
Freight for a variator should only be about $7 or $8.
ZX50, 47mm cyl. kit, TZR50 CDI. Michelin Pilot Sport tyres,
Next performance mod; pumping the tyres up.

Shaka

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Re: Variator Notching
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2010, 12:39:19 AM »
Thanks for the offer Topaz!  What is the variator off of?  Will it fit my ZX50?  I may take you up on that.

sidthesloth

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Re: Variator Notching
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2010, 04:06:09 AM »
My old one is stock as far as I know, 14,000 kms old, yours if you want it, just give me an address to send it to, my new "race variator" is working fine so I won't be needing the old one.
ZX50, 47mm cyl. kit, TZR50 CDI. Michelin Pilot Sport tyres,
Next performance mod; pumping the tyres up.

Hoolander2

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Re: Variator Notching
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2010, 04:26:56 AM »
Hey, Shaka.  I like the fact that you're doing this kind of thing.  I confess I don't know a thing about variators.  Could you get a local welder to put a tiny bead of aluminum weld out there where you think you took too much off and re-work it?    Assuming it's an aluminum casting.  I've seen really nice aluminum welds done on crankcases and ground to where you couldn't tell at all.

   

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