Project Electronic Fuel Injection

[baddi]

Hey guys.
I just placed my order at http://www.ecotrons.com/Small_Engine_EFI_PNP_kit.html for the electronic fuel injection kit, and i will use this thread to tell what i find, discover or experience.

The kit is to convert the engine from carburated to Fuel Injected, which allows the user to tune the ignition and fuel mixture very precisely and even let the ECU (electronic control unit) fine-tune it itself, so the mixture wont be wrong when driving in weather with a diffrent temperature or pressure than the one it is tuned for, as it is the case for carburated engines.

The kit includes (copy-pasted from the web-site, as it would take ages to write) :
1.ECU
2.Harness (including the connectors)
3.Throttle Body and Intake manifold Assembly
•   24mm/28mm Throttle body (including TPS sensor)
•   or 34mm Throttle body (with a built-in idle motor, and TPS sensor)
•   Intake manifold (GY6 only)
•   Fuel injector (38/60/80/126/190g/230g/min)
4.Fuel pump assembly
•   Fuel pump (compact size:38mm diameter) (comparative low power: 2A current) (Flow rate: 25L/h)
•   Fuel pressure regulator(2.5bar)
•   Fuel filter
•   fuel hoses and clamps
5.MAP sensor (1.05bar)
6.Engine temperature sensor
7.Intake air temperature sensor
8.CDI - for ECU controlled spark advance (included, for both fuel and spark controls, fully programmable)
9.Oxygen sensor and bungs (included, to have close-loop fuel and self-tuning features)
10.Serial communication cable (to a computer)
11.USB adaptor (included, USB connectivity, and no more RS232 port needed)
12.CD - free tuning software (also downloadable)



I'm not going to explain the parts further, as it took ages to explain all of them in a danish forum, and it will take at least the same time again, if i had to write it in english.

Unfortunately, 5-7 workdays will pass, before i get my kit, but i will gladly answer the questions, which i can, or explain the parts, which you are uncertain of the purpose of.

The links for further reading are:
http://scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=discussion&action=display&thread=37715
http://www.ecotrons.com/files/SE-EFI-tuning-guide.pdf
http://www.ecotrons.com/files/SE-EFI-installation-Manual.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAP_sensor

[whiteknight]

wow man looks quite good. how much was that in total?  i guess the engine would be a hell of alot smoother when it runs and the power delivery would be soooo much better than a indecisive carb. make sure you update us on the fitting and eventual running of the kit...good luck man 

[blue]

  wow a lot to deal with. I have a scoot that I took the petcock of the tank and its doing gravity flow to the carb and just befor the gas filter I put a control knob so you can turn the gas mix up or down just like a gas off and on switch. when the weather gets colder you just turn it up and go. just have to watch you plug chops. lot less to deal with. whats nice about it is it works with almost any carb.

[baddi]

wow man looks quite good. how much was that in total?  i guess the engine would be a hell of alot smoother when it runs and the power delivery would be soooo much better than a indecisive carb. make sure you update us on the fitting and eventual running of the kit...good luck man 

It was $399 for the kit, and $50 for the shipping, so its not a killer bill.

I sure hope too, that it will run a hell lot smoother, but i have a little concern about the engine at the moment.
I fear, that the piston rings are a little f***ed, as it seems to be unable to hold a pressure, when i manually turn it to the compression stroke, as you can hear in the video below. Also, it had some black flakes in the oil, when i checked yesterday, and the spark plug seems to be getting oiled. I don't think, that the tube from the valve cover are leading too much oil to the filter, as the dipstick showed maximum oil, when i could only empty 0,58 liters out of it, so i poured it all back in, after removing the flakes.

The flakes in the oil: http://www.billig-scooter.dk/attachment.php?aid=2666

The video of the compression stroke:

[whiteknight]

those black flakes look like carbon deposits. not sure about the noise from the compression stroke though. i know mine is experiencing some trouble because it lags low down in the revs and wants to give up on me, plus i have strange whistling noises and somtimes it sounds like the engine is eating itself    have you thought about pulling the engine apart to check the piston rings?

[zombie]

That is a compression leak. Can you rig a pressure hose to the Spark plug hole? With the piston at TDC you can pressurize the combustion chamber, and listen thru the carb/exhaust/oil fill to see if it is a valve or rings. Bad ass kit Baddi! I've seen them on several forums, and have NOT seen a review or install yet. You may want to get a new exhaust too. Yours will be fouled/rusted inside making for a difficult Permanent weld for the O2 sensor bung. If you simply "tack" it on it will fail. I would also use the largest/strongest battery you can fit in the scoot. It NEEDS full 12v to start well.
That said PLEASE get that f'er running for us!

[baddi]

Yeah, i was about to pull the motor open yesterday, when i filmed the video, but then i remembered, that i would have to replace gaskets, and i have no gaskets, so i will have to buy some before i can do any checking.
Unfortunately, i have no pressure hose, but if you say it's a compression leak, i will check the valves for carbon deposits and check the piston rings, the next time i have time to take the engine apart.

And Zombie, i will do everything to get this kit up and running.
I've got a friend, who recently got a CO2 welder, so there are 2 possibilities for exhausts to weld a nut onto. One is that i make a hole in the original exhaust, and the other one is, that i go down to the police station, and ask if this: http://www.leovince.com/en/catalog-kymco/hand_made_agility_50_r12_4_stroke_2008/10537 is legal, when it got a CE-approval.

If it is, then i would have to wait another month, untill i have the money for it, as it costs roughly $150 :/

And yeah, i know, that the injection kit is very illegal, and an illegal exhaust wouln't make it any less legal, but the police often just looks at the exhaust and air filter, and if it doesnt look stock, they will check the rest of the scooter, and i dont want them to take the EFI-kit.

[baddi]

OK, i've learned something in the last couple of days.

The most important thing to keep the fuel mixture at the right point, is to know how much fresh air is in the engine, and this is what is called the volumetric efficiency.

The way to calculate the amount of fresh air in the engine are kind of hard, but i think that i have found a way to know if the engine are taking in more or less air. We can do this with the ideal gas rule, a little like in Ecotrons guide: m = PV/RT where m are mass, p are pressure (measured as close to the engine as possible, V are volume (engine displacement), R are the gas constant and T are temperature measured in Kelvin.

The thing which will be variable, when improving the air flow, letting more air get in and out of the cylinder (volumetric effeciency) are the pressure. When im measuring the pressure in the intake manifold, and then removing the venturi effect of the carburator by using the efi kit, i should see a lower pressure drop in the intake stroke, as the engine wont have to create so big a vaacum in the intake manifold to suck in the air.

So when i get the kit i will test, if the efi kit will allow better volumetric effeciency than the carburator, if streamlining the intake spacer between the intake and the manifold will help, as this is 0,8mm too little in diameter, compared to intake. I will also check, if i can optimise the filter to let more air flow though, and eventually if a Leo Vince exhaust will have any effect (making it easier to get rid of exhaust gasses).

Have anyone got any ideas, tips or comments on this?
If help to understand how to measure the Volumetric Efficiency is given, i will be grateful!

[zombie]

To measure the volume itself you can make a 1 cubic foot box (standard) and fill it with anything you can dump into the engine. (oil) just pour it into the intake, and fill the engine. The remainder will give you the volume inside the engine. I have done this several times, and it will work.
To test before, and after flow rates use a cheap flow meter http://www.google.com/products/catalog?client=opera&rls=en&q=air+flow+sensor&oe=utf-8&channel=suggest&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=11555600458485593671&sa=X&ei=MICgT8q1LISm8ASdnsS2AQ&ved=0CLUBEPMCMAQ mounted at either the intake or exhaust. Then you can swap pipes/intakes/heads ect to note the Diff.
Easy Breasy.  (intended pun)

[zombie]

Ps... All those big words you used makes it sound difficult. It's just air!

[baddi]

Ps... All those big words you used makes it sound difficult. It's just air!

My big words was the simplified version of the guides i found on the internet. No wonder it confused me xD

But thanks for the link. btw, would you place the air flow meter before or after the throttle body or before the air filter?

[zombie]

Since the air filter cannot really be sealed I would go on the front of the carb/throttle body replacing the filter with the meter. I'm sure you can rig up a coupler to it.. I would even try running the engine stock to get a base line idea of cfm for the engine. The more cfm the more power potential. Keep in mind testing at the exhaust side will read higher due to heat/less dense air.

[baddi]

Since the air filter cannot really be sealed I would go on the front of the carb/throttle body replacing the filter with the meter. I'm sure you can rig up a coupler to it.. I would even try running the engine stock to get a base line idea of cfm for the engine. The more cfm the more power potential. Keep in mind testing at the exhaust side will read higher due to heat/less dense air.

But if i replace the filter, i will not read accurate at all, as the filter is acting as a resistance to the air flow, letting less air go into the engine.


A little update:
I'm still waiting for the EFI kit to arrive, and Ecotrons haven't sent me a confirmation, that it is sent, but i sure hope that it is.

I found out that the Leo Vince exhaust is street legal for Agility 50 in europe, and i ordered it online by the national hero of scooterparts in Denmark, and i could pick the package up from the local post office less than 24 hours after the order was placed. Today i fitted it (which took time, and hard work) and it sounds AWESOME at low rpm, although the sound flattens out, when the rpm rises, and it just makes alot of noise, like if youre running very rich.
I also ordered a Malossi Kevlar belt, which is 743 long, but i wont put this in, as i have experienced higher gearing (and 70+ km/h), which will save me fuel, and by doing that, make me unable to compare standart carburator to the EFI kit on fuel consumption.
When i get the kit, i will do my best to save fuel, as this is my 1st priority, and i will do this by restricting the revs at a little higher than the max effect (instead of the 9000 rpm, the CDI will let me go to, after it is cutted). I will run like this for 1 or 2 full tanks, and then i will install the 743 belt and possibly buy Dr Pulley sliders.

The installation of the kit will have to wait untill the end of next week, as the danish police are doing a national razzia against 2-wheelers and illegal scooters are as always the main target).

[zombie]

I have heard Danish Police are sort of Nazi like in both tactics, and temperament. Kind of kick the door down because the neighbor SAID you were doing something.
Cool deal on the pipe. Does it have the O2 bung already welded in?

[baddi]

I have heard Danish Police are sort of Nazi like in both tactics, and temperament. Kind of kick the door down because the neighbor SAID you were doing something.
Cool deal on the pipe. Does it have the O2 bung already welded in?

Unfortunately it has not, so i will have to make a hole in the pipe, weld a bolt in the proper size to it, while i make sure to weld properly, so no air can get into the pipe where the weld is.

About the police. Nah, somtimes they can be brutal to prisoners and people who resist arrest, and this has lead to 2 deaths in 2008, and then they was told to be less brutal.
The kind of police you are thinking about sounds more like KGB during the cold war. The most tactically brutal police we've got are PET, Police's Intelligence Service, who are arresting people who are a national threat, like some guys who tried to make a bomb, while they lived in the (don't think me a racist) part of Denmark with most immigrants living together. In this area, rumors pass quickly, and get very exaggerated as they pass on. I think that PET can be compared to CIA, if you keep in mind, that Denmark are a tiny country.

The police i'm thinking of are the regular police, who along with the public and the politicians are very misinformed, when it comes to scooters. The police are just doing their part, to check that people are acting according to the law, and some even think that scooters really aren't build to go over 30 km/h. 
The politicians just passed a law, which makes it legal for "45 km/h"-scooters to have a trailer attatched. While the 45-scooters run on the road and require a drivers license, and the 30-scooters drive in the bicycle lane, i can understand that, as there aren't as much space in the bicycle lanes. But the reason from the government? That the 45 scooters are better build and have better brakes. This is a lie, as the diffrence is just the thickness of the restriction in the vario. 

A little update on the EFI-project:
The package has been sent from Hong Kong to Denmark at 05:23 this night. I dont know what it is doing in Hong Kong, when i ordered from an american company, and i dont know if it is Danish time or local time, but i guess it will be here monday or tuesday, depending on how many places they will have to land the plane to unload cargo.