KymcoForum.com
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Stig / Major Tom on May 31, 2014, 08:34:06 PM
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Mine is......a LIKE 200i.
Are any other Kymcos made in China ?
Stig
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All of them except for some of the smaller 50cc - 150 cc bikes. They make the 50's there because it is their largest market share.
Kymco has established 3 factories in China to produce their bikes one in Jakarta, and one in Taiwan.
The China plants now put out all the parts.
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Why does yamaha make parts for kymco
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Super 8 and Agility City come from China too.
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Incorrect, all of their big bike 300cc and up as well as Compagno bear the glorious made in Taiwan seal of approval!!!
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Incorrect, all of their big bike 300cc and up as well as Compagno bear the glorious made in Taiwan seal of approval!!!
The Yager (well under 300cc) also says it's made in Taiwan.
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People are attracted to the Kymco brand because of its affiliation with Taiwan then to find out its made in China.
Yikes!!!
People pay a premium for the Kymco Brand.
Lets be honest; In the USA, China is synonymous with poor quality from cheap labor.
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People are attracted to the Kymco brand because of its affiliation with Taiwan then to find out its made in China.
Yikes!!!
People pay a premium for the Kymco Brand.
Lets be honest; In the USA, China is synonymous with poor quality from cheap labor.
So true.
Back in the day we said that about japan.......and honda.
Be Big,
AMAC
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Make parts in the country of origin, then have the bike assembled in China.
This is a notable difference than being totally manufactured in China.
Parts are of high quality from France, Taiwan, etc.
Some are assembled in China but, not made there.
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I have read that the first LIKEs were made in Taiwan...then there was something like a $700 price drop....as they were switched to China.
The first thing all of us new LIKE owners did was peel off the Made in China sticker on the leg shield.
For a lot of us, made in Taiwan is the new Japan.
The prevailing thinking on quality seems to be:
#1 Japanese scooters
#2 Taiwanese scoots
#14 Chinese scoots
I do not know where Vietnam, India and Thailand made products, as sold by Vespa and Honda, fall in this discussion.
Reality, or prejudicial thinking?
I did as much research on scooters as I knew how last year - but I am a much better informed buyer, now, than I was 13 months ago when I purchased my first scooter.
That being said, I don't think too many of us are disappointed with our purchase of the LIKE200i - and probably only the engine power is disappointing the 50cc LIKE owners. The 125 owners seem to be happy, as well.
Stig
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There was a famous saying I remember as a kid: "Made in Japan from an old tin can."
The imported Japanese cars changed the public's perception about quality control, build and reliability.
The Imported Japanese Motorcycles, being more reliable, lighter, cheaper and much faster, ruined the Domestic and European markets.
The way China is going they will own the world soon or at least their economies. Look what is going on in the world with China politically!
If I had known or knew that my 500 was/ is made in China I would sell it in a heartbeat.
Sam:)
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I've been working at a Kymco dealer since before the likes came out. Those were really the first batch of bikes other than the Agility that said made in China. It was a sad day opening the crate and seeing that sticker. That being said there are vastly different quality of parts coming out of China now, I've torn apart the Like GY6 a few times and the casting and machining is way better than generic brand China scooter. Just think about how your giving a 12 year old the opportunity to work and earn a decent 2$ a day wage to bring home to his family, doing good for the world! The Taiwanese are too stinking rich now.
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The Chinese can produce some incredibly high quality goods like iPhones. Just needs the right investment and boots on the ground to ensure quality control. I don't like tacky Made in Anywhere stickers plastered on the front of my bike, so I remove them with a heat gun.
Just think about how your giving a 12 year old the opportunity to work and earn a decent 2$ a day wage to bring home to his family, doing good for the world! The Taiwanese are too stinking rich now.
I really think you're trying to say something positive and heartwarming and want to give you the benefit of the doubt, but I don't think it's coming out the way you expect it to and instead becomes incredibly offensive and insulting to me.
While I want to avoid turning this thread into a political commentary, I must mention my family has lived through immense poverty for generations in China. Today I'm watching globalization screw over developing nations and make them completely dependent on wealthy nations. I'm watching the ever rising price of oil making it prohibitive to ship food in needed amounts long distances to hungry, dependent people.
I have no idea how a picture of making $2 a day in a factory today will help a 12-year-old study in school and still have fun being a kid. Are we justifying putting overseas communities and children into wage slavery and painting a happy picture on it for our benefit? That these unfortunate people should be thankful for what we give them?
Not this has any bearing about how Kymco factories in China or Taiwan are actually run.
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It was strictly a joke my good sir, not meant to offend. But while were on the political note China owns America and they do that by raping their citizens on $2 a day or whatever wages and exporting goods. It's nothing new, wealthy nations have always pillaged and taken advantage of poorer nations and despite how cynical that sounds its not going to change. I have no doubt in the near future the roles will flip flop and China will be dominant world power and America will be a 3rd world country (IMHO were already pretty much there). I'm sorry to hear you had to grow up in that type of situation and again just a misplaced politically incorrect joke.
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Thanks for the clarification. :)
For me, scooters symbolize independence and freedom. It has been interesting selling them as empowering urban personal transportation and not as just another commercial good like a container of pet rocks. I am very thankful I have that freedom at my job and not have to push bikes to meet a dumb sales quota.
Affordable, well made, and responsibly produced bikes from China and Thailand can be a boon. I hope to get more people out of cars and help them reconnect with the community around them instead of seeing them sitting frustrated and trapped in a car during the daily grind.
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Totally agree with you there, none of my co-workers are on a commission based pay and we also really enjoy getting people on two wheels and out of cars. In America people see scooters as just a fun toy still for 75% of people. I ride around in rush hour able to escape easily in gridlock laughing all the way home at people getting road rage and stress sitting in their prisons on wheels. 7see scooters in America joining the rest of the world in number of users, we just get cheap ass gas that allows people to justify a 7000 lb SUV for carrying around one soccer mom. A few years back gas hit over $6 a gallon and we sold out of scooters so many people were making the switch.
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I've been working at a Kymco dealer since before the likes came out. Those were really the first batch of bikes other than the Agility that said made in China. It was a sad day opening the crate and seeing that sticker. That being said there are vastly different quality of parts coming out of China now, I've torn apart the Like GY6 a few times and the casting and machining is way better than generic brand China scooter. Just think about how your giving a 12 year old the opportunity to work and earn a decent 2$ a day wage to bring home to his family, doing good for the world! The Taiwanese are too stinking rich now.
B and L,
I did read about about that price drop in a couple of places.
The LIKEs were priced at @$3500 and then the price was dropped to $2600.
Do you remember that? What was that all about?
And, Thanks for your "inside a LIKE engine" comments. If you ever want to expand on what you see as a Kymco mechanic - there are a lot of people here who would be a very interested audience!
Curious Stig
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We always had the same out the door price on the Like, never $3500 for the normal version. But maybe your thinking about the Like "LX" the msrp on those is a few hundred more, but still not $3500. Maybe they realized they needed a lower MSRP setpoint a bit after starting to import them? Either way we got the Like's right when they got the first batch in the US and they always had Made in China on it haha. I've been told from Kymco that the 50cc 2t engines are still 100% made in Taiwan even though the chassis says made in China, but he also told me most of the 4t engines up to 200cc are made in China. This does not go for old models like the People 150, S200 etc those engines were all made in Taiwan, just the newest batches of GY6 based bikes are China. One funny thing, and it seems like the last good 150cc bike they import is the Movie 150 (Not sure what it's called outside the states). rated at 14 hp and it really goes, still made in Taiwan too. We've only sold one and it was a tough sell for some reason, price is fairly high but it has INSANELY large seat storage for a 150cc.
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Also on the note about engines an such, next time I open something up that I feel will be of help to someone I plan on documenting for the Forum.
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Overseas, the Movie 150 is sold as the Racing 150. Very nice premium bike.
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Posting disrespectfully about a Mom driving an SUV is just Class envy. The SUV is nothing more than the 'Station wagon' of yesterday. Most get better mileage than the old station wagons did. How is this Mom supposed to take her contingent of soccer players around, on a scooter or maybe a couple of smaller cars?
On scooters for commuting: In the United States, most people drive long distances to go to work, in sometimes terrible traffic and dressed well also. Would you recommend 1 million scooters flowing into traffic in Los Angeles, St. Louis, Chicago, Nashville, D.C., New York etc? How naïve.
Your example of the $2 a day China Boy is not our problem but the problem of a communist regime where the money is at the top and there is no 'trickle down' at all to the proletariat: It's a lie and a myth.
Instead of making me want to buy a product made with slave labor, no matter the cost, rest assured, I would never support a company or product made that way, regardless of if it put the China Boy out of work.
I remember when it was disclosed that 'NIKE' used child slave type labor to make their tennis shoes and soccer balls, in Pakistan. Cost was $3 for a $99 pair of flashy tennis shoes. The workers made less than $1 per hour.
I wouldn't spit on their products to waste hydration:)
Sam:)
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Porkie,
I believe the right tool should be used for the job. Mom has options. Mom can use a scooter when it's just her personal driving and take the kids and their friends in a minivan or a multi purpose vehicle or a modern station wagon that are far more fuel efficient. I fully support freedom to drive whatever we want, but I have a feeling big thirsty vehicles will ultimately be unsustainable and be cost prohibitive to run. Hopefully our tastes change and let us adapt before then.
I am a big proponent of living closer to work to cut down on insane commutes, but highways can accept powerful maxi and midi scooters as car replacements if staying close to the American way of life is a priority. Dressing well and riding to work need not be exclusive. The storage on a scooter is a very helpful too. Also, scooters would not add to car traffic but replace some of it. Congestion would not increase.
I don't think workers in third world countries are underpaid solely because they are under oppressive communist regimes and are completely untouched by Western capitalism. I believe it's comforting to blame other nations or even our poor communities at home for their misfortunes and allow our people to create markets that encourage wage slavery both at home and abroad. Efficiency and profit without a metric for social or environmental harm. GDP does not account for these. Even an environmental disaster will create jobs with the true costs unrecorded and unaccounted for. Worth consideration.
However, I admire that you are aware of poor conditions overseas and refuse to support that part of the economy, Porkie.
PS. our family does have a big SUV. It costs us $5000 in gas a year after I tally up the gas receipts, money that I would rather put elsewhere. It is not my decision to make to get rid of it, but I exercise other options including another smaller car or my fleet of scooters whenever possible.
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I am in no way envious being trapped in a tank that gets 15-20mpg. And personally I think it's sad that in 2014 people still drive cars that get the same mileage as old school station wagons. I would highly recommend millions of people commuting daily on scooters that would be some scary fun sh**. Obviously if a soccer mom is driving her kids that's whatever but to travel alone in a behemoth car like that makes me mad personally. Were supposedly in a fuel crisis and people can't help but but bigger and bigger vehicles, it's sad. One mom and three kids can fit perfectly well in a Honda civic or the like.
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One mom and three kids can fit perfectly well in a Honda civic or the like.
When my brother in-law and sister in-law were picking up their adopted son from Taiwan they saw a family of 5 load onto a scooter and drive off. The topic came up again after I got my scoot. It was (front to back) dad, baby, mom and then a kid hanging off each side. I'll have to see if they got a pic.
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When my brother in-law and sister in-law were picking up their adopted son from Taiwan they saw a family of 5 load onto a scooter and drive off. The topic came up again after I got my scoot. It was (front to back) dad, baby, mom and then a kid hanging off each side. I'll have to see if they got a pic.
Not my wife and kids in the civic.
I'm done with raising families but as long as my wife and kids had to compete with Yukons they would be in a bigger car.
I don't care how many can fit into whatever, wherever.
Be Big,
AMAC
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I live 11 miles each way from the business I own in town and 90% is on beautiful country roads, so I utilize my scoots from 50cc to 650cc or my current 500cc Xciting. I also ride my Goldwing----when the weather is nice and if I don't have to go out on IT calls and carry stuff. If I do, I drive my 2010 Chrysler mini-van or my 2009 Dodge Ram, Mega-cab, Bighorn, 4x4 pickup, with the 400HP Hemi engine, especially if I have to pick up equipment for the 2 diesel tractors, Big ZTR mower, John Deere Gator or the brand new Polaris Ranger 800cc side by side, 6 passenger fun vehicle, as I own an AGRI farm also. If anyone has a 'GAS CRISIS,' it's me to fuel all of my stuff.
Now, if you live in the town where you work, are single or have a wife and no kids and carry very little, then enjoy your 50cc string trimmer scooter and Prius and look down on the rest of us people who out of necessity do what we have to do.
Lots of folks have moved to the suburbs or rural areas to avoid the high cost and crime and congestion of inner city living and because the homes and properties are so much cheaper and this may give us LONG commutes.
It costs me over $100 to fill my truck up and on the road I get 21 mpg, in total comfort, a/c, Sirius radio etc.
My current scooter, gets 42 mpg, is hot or cold or wet or dry, doesn't hold much and is no fun in high humidity.
Do I pat myself on the back or chastise myself for conspicuous consumption? Pride and ego makes one think they are more enlightened than someone else.
I wish everyone in the world could have a wonderful life, not wanting for anything but why pray tell do I (we) have to pay for it with income equality thinking, that raises other countries up as it brings us down.
Sam:)
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Sam, if you need a big pickup truck for your work and play, then by all means drive it. It's the right tool for the job. Just others that may not need that capacity and capability may want to put their money elsewhere that can derive them more enjoyment, like wonderful vacations or trips or home renovation. It's about reallocating and making best use of our resources and improve our standards of living.
I like my Downtown 300i, and I have made such daily commutes before in all weather for years. I acknowledge it's not everybody's thing and it does not make me better than you. But it certainly is possible and within the realm of reason for some of your fellow countrymen that wish to explore alternatives in transportation. I am not imposing this on you by any stretch.
I wish everyone in the world could have a wonderful life, not wanting for anything but why pray tell do I (we) have to pay for it with income equality thinking, that raises other countries up as it brings us down.
Now I believe we have all been carefully trained as we grew up by people hopelessly mad for power and status that the only way for the rest of us to live well is that we all must collectively suffer greatly and live worse than third world countries. That we must all climb over our fellow people to scramble up a hopeless mountain and cement whatever foothold we find against everyone beside or beneath us. That we have been trained to view anyone who speaks against this system that benefits the elite is a communist or a socialist or a snob or a bum or votes for the other guy or is too proud or wants you to just plain feel bad. Perhaps by speaking to you today I am the enemy, maybe one of those Occupy Movement bums. It is funny how entrenched we are in this thinking. But does this sound reasonable to you?
What say you if other first world democratic countries seem to take care of its citizens and not diminish anyone's level of enjoyment and dignity and satisfaction in their lives? That perhaps Americans could take the lead to be a model country where everybody lives incredibly healthy and well but remains an economic, yet sustainable powerhouse? Just some food for thought.
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I say, so be it.
From the rich to the poor and most of us in between, we are all pawn's in a divine comedy, with misguided puppet master's pulling the strings.
I appreciate your astute observations and comments--it's been a pleasure!
Sam:)
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All current Agility, Like and Super 8 models, for USA consumption, are assembled at the Kymco China Factory
The rest of the models are Taiwan built.
All of the ATV / UTV models are Taiwan built.
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All current Agility, Like and Super 8 models, for USA consumption, are assembled at the Kymco China Factory
The rest of the models are Taiwan built.
All of the ATV / UTV models are Taiwan built.
Yeah, thank you very much!
Can I ask how you know this? It is a respectful question ....this kind of information is hard for me to come by and is very interesting!. A little back-story is cool to know!
(I just wondered where our Kymco's were built ::)! ) I have not seen them all, but the ones I have stood next to seem to be impressively built.
Stig
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This whole thread screams ZOMBIE!
The whole car thing is out of control. We ALL KNOW oil is finite. If you want to use it all up faster than the rest of the world it is on you, and you alone. There are alternate ways of getting around, and nice hair doos are NO F"N reason to destroy the planet. Which is what every gas guzzling American is doing. Like it or not.
I'm not going to say another word on this because it makes me friggin nutz to see how people will twist what is happening into legal mumbo jumbo that makes no sense in an attempt to justify their SELFISH BEHAVIOR. Everyone with a heart/soul knows I am right.
Truth be told North Korea will take the heat, and destroy as much of the west (US) as they can. China will be the dominate global power. It is just the way it is. We have no way to stop them UNLESS we develop alternate fuel sources. (wish Axy was here).
There ARE FREE renewable ways to power EVERYTHING.
If the US gets off it's acid tripped out ass, and uses what the Earth has to offer, and gets the F out of global politics we will be fine. Let China boy rule the rest. We have the Americas to worry about.
The people that take the path of least resistance will be the survivors.
You all know I am a major but wad, and I am not going to say one more word on this.It's toooooo easy to hate.
I love you all, and there are just a few that will argue that I am totally wrong. Those few can go on F'ing everything up while I sleep like a baby knowing that I do SOMETHING to help everyone every f'n day of my life.
I wish you all really knew me...
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This whole thread screams ZOMBIE!
The whole car thing is out of control. We ALL KNOW oil is finite. If you want to use it all up faster than the rest of the world it is on you, and you alone. There are alternate ways of getting around, and nice hair doos are NO F"N reason to destroy the planet. Which is what every gas guzzling American is doing. Like it or not.
I'm not going to say another word on this because it makes me friggin nutz to see how people will twist what is happening into legal mumbo jumbo that makes no sense in an attempt to justify their SELFISH BEHAVIOR. Everyone with a heart/soul knows I am right.
Truth be told North Korea will take the heat, and destroy as much of the west (US) as they can. China will be the dominate global power. It is just the way it is. We have no way to stop them UNLESS we develop alternate fuel sources. (wish Axy was here).
There ARE FREE renewable ways to power EVERYTHING.
If the US gets off it's acid tripped out ass, and uses what the Earth has to offer, and gets the F out of global politics we will be fine. Let China boy rule the rest. We have the Americas to worry about.
The people that take the path of least resistance will be the survivors.
You all know I am a major but wad, and I am not going to say one more word on this.It's toooooo easy to hate.
I love you all, and there are just a few that will argue that I am totally wrong. Those few can go on F'ing everything up while I sleep like a baby knowing that I do SOMETHING to help everyone every f'n day of my life.
I wish you all really knew me...
Great post! The most sensible one from you yet. And I wish I knew you too (even if you don't like NJ!). From what I do know about you, you remind me of my son. :)
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Zombie, that was a ridiculous RANT and I'd be willing to bet you don't live in the United States, even though you say the Florida Swampland but in some small Burg where you can walk to work in your Hemp shoes wearing your greenpeace clothes.
We are crippled here by a government that won't let us import oil from Canada nor drill in our own country, so our prices remain high. I really don't care if you are paying high prices because a large percentage is taxes, you know, to support your socialist program's.
The latest tax coming up is a tax for all miles driven---this is above and beyond all city, county, State and Federal programs. Some regimes have never met a tax they don't like:)
We have plenty of oil waiting to be tapped and fuel alternatives made from Corn Products. Sorry if your food prices went up nut you know, we need our Ethanol to keep fuel prices down, which t hasn't done at all.
We sell LOTS of our oil and fuel to other countries along with their welfare checks. How much foreign aid do we give your country? It's only tax money right! Where does the money come from but out of citizens pockets.
I don't feel bad because I can afford fuel. I need fuel to get to work and for the farm.
Have a super nice day:)
Sam:)
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Yes, well....just wondering which KYMCOs were made in Taiwan and which were made in China.
By the time mine gets done having me do all the servicing, I'm gonna put a sticker on it that says Made in Ohio.
I'm so excited, because I was looking in my owner's manual and I see that it is time to do another valve adjustment!
Peace folks....Stig
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Love ya Porkie.
I do live in Carrabelle Florida. I moved here to be able to slow down my life style, and help as many people as I can.
I HATE hemp wearing Hippies more than Cartman (southpark). They do NOTHING but dream of "better ways" but are too self absorbed to get off their stoned asses to do anything.
The reason we do not drill here is obvious to everyone but you Porkie... We are keeping our oil so when it is all depleted we will still have oil on tap. STUPID THINKING!!! Ours will be used up eventually, and no amount of $$$ will change that.
I work VERY hard to develop new ideas, and one of them is a new method of producing Ethanol (if we insist on internal combustion). I have designed a concentric distillation column that runs on a vacuum assist system that is powered by solar heated water. The natural circulation (hot/cold) provides the vacuum, and the 160^ water is MORE than enough to distill ethanol from whatever you wish. Meaning I have developed a FREE way to distill ethanol, and actually create electrical energy to sell back to the grid.
I am working with several people around the world to verify my designs, and figure a way to implement the idea into reality. The math is all there, and computer models have proven the design. J&G Labs have donated their software to run the simulations. I am at this moment seeking investors in the PRIVATE sector to begin prototype trials.
Being in Fl. we can grow stock crop year round so in all seriousness I believe I can single handedly change the way fuel is produced.
What have you done today...
Politics is a lie. The country (US) is run the same way a Crack Head runs their budget. SPEND IT ALL because we can always steal more money.
You will of course think I am talking out my sphincter so if you are inclined pm me for more details on the column/vacuum system. I am MORE than happy to share the details, and the math involved. You will need someone to translate it all into easy terms but it is all developed, and waiting for believers that are willing to change the way we do things. Can I count you in for 150g's? Perhaps a donation of land to get this project off the ground? The Federal, and State tax incentives alone are worth looking into...
http://www.ethanolrfa.org/pages/tax-incentives (http://www.ethanolrfa.org/pages/tax-incentives)
http://www.afdc.energy.gov/laws/law/OK/6091 (http://www.afdc.energy.gov/laws/law/OK/6091)
http://www.afdc.energy.gov/laws/laws/FL/tech/3252 (http://www.afdc.energy.gov/laws/laws/FL/tech/3252)
No joke my friend.
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I stand corrected. You seem like a very intelligent Guy, if somewhat opinionated like me.
I somehow thought that yours was just another very young college de-educated, head full of mush, Green Peace, tree hugging rant blaming every bad thing in the world on terrible America, as he/ she enjoys their affirmative action, free tuition education enjoying their free minutes on the Obama phone, whilst still living with Mom and Pop for free, paying no property taxes but voting for things that will raise ours, as they toke up on their medical grass to relieve their stress for being an American:)
Sorry for my negative rant:)
Sam:)
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Those are EXACTLY the people I want to line up at the train station. (very poor humor I know but the feeling is there).
I care about the way people are mis taught/mis trained more than I care about my own welfare. It is something that has been in me since 5 years old so I have 51 years of frustration built up. I guess it is mostly New Yorkers that see thru my veneer, and know what I am really about. Sarcasm is my way of avoiding long "rants" at almost everything I deal with every day of my life.
Tree hugging is GREAT but not at the expense of not having the time to cut your elderly neighbors lawn or asking if the widowed mom next door needs something for her kid.
I only post here to help. in fact I only live to help.
Thanks Sam... Maybe you will pick up one piece of trash, and think about how much that really means. It is almost futile, and extremely frustrating when you see some a hole throw a Mcicky d bag out the window on the freeway, but you at least did SOMETHING.
Welcome to my world.
Love ya. I know you are also here to help...and you do! Thanks!!!
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Yeah, thank you very much!
Can I ask how you know this? It is a respectful question ....this kind of information is hard for me to come by and is very interesting!. A little back-story is cool to know!
(I just wondered where our Kymco's were built ::)! ) I have not seen them all, but the ones I have stood next to seem to be impressively built.
Stig
I work with several dealers. I am friends with a few Kymco Area Managers.
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that's good to know.
We all understand this is not an Kymco factory backed/sponsored site so having someone "in the loop" as it were would be a very valuable asset to us. Thousands of us.
Perhaps you would be so kind as to stick around, and correct what you can (information wise).
I can only imagine how far that can go towards helping the brand rep as well as promote a stronger forum. There are a LOT of good people here, and there are many more that simply have questions that post, and run. Point is CORRECT information is paramount.
I hope you can help us out.
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We are crippled here by a government that won't let us import oil from Canada nor drill in our own country, so our prices remain high.
For what it's worth, oil and precious metals comes out of Canada at serious cost to the environment and communities here with almost no meaningful penalties against the multinational mining companies that run them. I frankly don't look forward to the lack of transparency and inevitable environmental disaster. For something closer to home, look at Louisiana. Nobody would swim in the Gulf of Mexico after it has been "cleaned up". Oil is only tempting if we ignore the costs to get it and focus solely on the price of food or the price at the pump. Oil isn't a long term solution.
Now if people could come up with a plan to responsibly drill and transport oil and provide adequate spill response... it sure wouldn't be as economical or lucrative yet! Or perhaps not until the reserves become valuable enough as zombie points out.
I really don't care if you are paying high prices because a large percentage is taxes, you know, to support your socialist program's.
Funny enough, huge tax breaks and subsidies are given to large, powerful and wealthy companies but nobody decries these as socialist handouts to bums. Instead, we are angered about wealth redistribution to the poor and providing needed services to the average Joe!
We sell LOTS of our oil and fuel to other countries along with their welfare checks. How much foreign aid do we give your country? It's only tax money right! Where does the money come from but out of citizens pockets.
Only because we've destroyed their economies and made them wholly dependent on us. Meanwhile, our giant multinational corporations take their natural resources back without using the proceeds to develop their infrastructure, social services and economy. Perhaps we should make these giant companies pay for welfare instead, but I have a feeling this idea will not go down well with their lobby groups. It sounds too much like wealth redistribution too, and they want us to think it's a no-no.
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For the keen, Chinese Kymcos do not yet match the plastics mold quality of the Taiwanese Kymcos. This can be verified by carefully looking at the body panels, especially down the edges. Try a Like against a Compagno or Sento, or a Super 8 against a Super 9 or Movie 150. Taiwanese Kymcos will likely have smoother, more uniform edges and paint. Chinese Kymcos are by no means poor bikes, but there can be a discernable plastic quality difference depending where the bike is made. For the moment, cost conscious and price sensitive models will come from China. Premium models will come from Taiwan.
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You had a really nice train of thought going with your take on global economics, and the role the US plays in it.
Then you go to ruin it by talking about these cheap scooters again.
Freekin scooters!
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Oh, the ugly American. Ugly to almost everyone in other countries but they still LOVE our money.
When I was a kid of about 10, 56 years ago, we had a school field trip to the Los Angeles Museum for the day. I remember being in an area (?) and looking at a HUGE chart on the wall showing all of the 'foreign aid' we pay to other countries. Even then as a naïve little chubby boy, I knew something was wrong!
The trouble is, is that the money earmarked for the people or programs never gets there because of the corrupt government that hoards the commodity to sell to their own people.
We use our money to buy friends and influence people which I think is wrong. We even send our out spoken enemies their welfare checks.
Environmental disasters happen: Ships run aground, trains derail and pipes break---poop happens! This world heals its self and it was designed that way by its CREATOR.
Natural disasters are far worse but now the distinction between natural and man made has been used as a political tool to change policy---for whom and why.
Would you make the plastic Tupperware perfect for SLAVE wages in a Chinese scooter plant?
My Bad.
Sam:)
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http://bit.ly/1pH23aF (http://bit.ly/1pH23aF)
Is it feasible , Zombie?
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The trouble is, is that the money earmarked for the people or programs never gets there because of the corrupt government that hoards the commodity to sell to their own people.
We use our money to buy friends and influence people which I think is wrong. We even send our out spoken enemies their welfare checks.
We've destroyed the foreign governments and installed our own puppets that are willing to give us unfettered use of their natural resources and drive their own people towards poverty wages to build our frippery. Decades ago, we justified it as curbing Communism. People in that business have admitted to it. Ugly but true. Read "Confessions of an Economic Hitman".
Environmental disasters happen: Ships run aground, trains derail and pipes break---poop happens! This world heals its self and it was designed that way by its CREATOR.
Natural disasters are far worse but now the distinction between natural and man made has been used as a political tool to change policy---for whom and why.
We, the people can demand responsible harvesting of resources where minor environmental spills can be monitored, contained and cleaned up responsibly.
Or we can have our multinational mining interests lobby for untested oil platforms with management that deliberately disable and override all their safeguards and unfortunately kill their workers in a giant fireball, dump unknown quantities of oil into the ocean, kill and deplete the native species that feed and inspire us, and force the government to deploy military planes to carpet bomb the ocean with the most cancer-causing chemical possible to conceal and make the oil blend into the ocean. This sounds unbelieveable, but this was the Deepwater Horizon and the coverup by BP. Just walking on the beach will make your skin blister and peel.
The Earth may eventually heal after we humans drive ourselves into extinction, but even then life will not look the way it did before we touched it. Species are gone forever. It's easier to live with that decision to irresponsibly drill if we never have to witness the aftermath in our backyard.
But do we resign ourselves to that course of action and say it's part of a natural or political cycle?
Would you make the plastic Tupperware perfect for SLAVE wages in a Chinese scooter plant? My Bad.
Sam, my friend, you may not have to enjoy Apple products, but hold one of their smartphones or laptops or tablets in your hand sometime. Their 'Tupperware' is quite perfect. People prize these things.
Please understand I am not looking down at you or your countrymen as dumb Americans with money. It can be tempting to paint ourselves in that corner when someone challenges our comfortable views and not have to deal with the fallout from our policy makers and powerful corporate interests. Some of your fellow citizens are actually quite brilliant and aware that the current path which the USA is on is unsustainable. The trick is feeling aware and empowered enough to take a stand and find other like minded people to lobby your governor. Because if we don't do it, big business is more than happy to step in and make their thoughts heard.
Such is the trouble of capitalism. We assume the invisible hand acts in the interest of the people for our best. In contrast, it acts to grow and consume at any cost. Overfishing is good for business, because when bluefin tuna get rare, those with money will pay a pretty penny to have it. Those without will do without and without and without, until there is nothing left to sustain us. Wait until it's a commodity like clean water that is in short supply in a first world former superpower.
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You had a really nice train of thought going with your take on global economics, and the role the US plays in it.
Then you go to ruin it by talking about these cheap scooters again.
Freekin scooters!
I was on Chinadominationforum.com earlier and they were talking about scooters too. Go figure.
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For the keen, Chinese Kymcos do not yet match the plastics mold quality of the Taiwanese Kymcos. This can be verified by carefully looking at the body panels, especially down the edges. Try a Like against a Compagno or Sento, or a Super 8 against a Super 9 or Movie 150. Taiwanese Kymcos will likely have smoother, more uniform edges and paint. Chinese Kymcos are by no means poor bikes, but there can be a discernable plastic quality difference depending where the bike is made. For the moment, cost conscious and price sensitive models will come from China. Premium models will come from Taiwan.
I've had a whole lot of my Chinese made LIKE parts & plastic panels in my hands over the past year. The Taiwanese made Kymcos must be beauties - because I'm finding no faults in my LIKE's construction. The quality of the scoot impresses me considering the modest purchase price. (I've a pretty good eye for quality - having owned German made cars for 40 years)
Looking forward to owning a Taiwanese Kymco or SYM some day!
Stig
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(Snip)
Such is the trouble of capitalism. We assume the invisible hand acts in the interest of the people for our best. In contrast, it acts to grow and consume at any cost. Overfishing is good for business, because when bluefin tuna get rare, those with money will pay a pretty penny to have it. Those without will do without and without and without, until there is nothing left to sustain us. Wait until it's a commodity like clean water that is in short supply in a first world former superpower.
In the case of the bluefin tuna you need to point at japan. They are the the guilty party as far as giant bluefin. The best bluefin in the US ,unless you caught it yourself, goes through Japanese hands first.
Shrimping bycatch on the other hand is a American thing.........
Be big,
AMAC
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I was on Chinadominationforum.com earlier and they were talking about scooters too. Go figure.
I hear they are working on Flotation pods for their cheap arse scooters. Apparently the plan is to attack California by Sea Scooter. That's what I read on the Internet anyway....
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I hear they are working on Flotation pods for there cheap arse scooters. Apparently the plan is to attack California by Sea Scooter. That's what I read on the Internet anyway....
Dude you crack me up !
Be Big,
AMAC
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It gets me too. I have no idea where half this crap I post comes from. BUT I do laugh my arse off.
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Zombie...does this work?? http://www.iflscience.com/technology/solar-plant-achieves-supercritical-steam (http://www.iflscience.com/technology/solar-plant-achieves-supercritical-steam)
Love ya Porkie.
I do live in Carrabelle Florida. I moved here to be able to slow down my life style, and help as many people as I can.
I HATE hemp wearing Hippies more than Cartman (southpark). They do NOTHING but dream of "better ways" but are too self absorbed to get off their stoned asses to do anything.
The reason we do not drill here is obvious to everyone but you Porkie... We are keeping our oil so when it is all depleted we will still have oil on tap. STUPID THINKING!!! Ours will be used up eventually, and no amount of $$$ will change that.
I work VERY hard to develop new ideas, and one of them is a new method of producing Ethanol (if we insist on internal combustion). I have designed a concentric distillation column that runs on a vacuum assist system that is powered by solar heated water. The natural circulation (hot/cold) provides the vacuum, and the 160^ water is MORE than enough to distill ethanol from whatever you wish. Meaning I have developed a FREE way to distill ethanol, and actually create electrical energy to sell back to the grid.
I am working with several people around the world to verify my designs, and figure a way to implement the idea into reality. The math is all there, and computer models have proven the design. J&G Labs have donated their software to run the simulations. I am at this moment seeking investors in the PRIVATE sector to begin prototype trials.
Being in Fl. we can grow stock crop year round so in all seriousness I believe I can single handedly change the way fuel is produced.
What have you done today...
Politics is a lie. The country (US) is run the same way a Crack Head runs their budget. SPEND IT ALL because we can always steal more money.
You will of course think I am talking out my sphincter so if you are inclined pm me for more details on the column/vacuum system. I am MORE than happy to share the details, and the math involved. You will need someone to translate it all into easy terms but it is all developed, and waiting for believers that are willing to change the way we do things. Can I count you in for 150g's? Perhaps a donation of land to get this project off the ground? The Federal, and State tax incentives alone are worth looking into...
http://www.ethanolrfa.org/pages/tax-incentives (http://www.ethanolrfa.org/pages/tax-incentives)
http://www.afdc.energy.gov/laws/law/OK/6091 (http://www.afdc.energy.gov/laws/law/OK/6091)
http://www.afdc.energy.gov/laws/laws/FL/tech/3252 (http://www.afdc.energy.gov/laws/laws/FL/tech/3252)
No joke my friend.
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I'm not so sure... What they are claiming is physically impossible. Steam yes... but increased pressure no. Water has certain properties that cannot be changed (pure water). Ie; boils at 212* sea level no matter how much heat you throw at it. Same for steam pressure. It will gain pressure as you increase power but there is a limit. There are actually charts that list the pressures/temps.
Now if you pull a vacuum all the temps lower Ie: boil point/steam transition points but I have not studied steam as a heat source. I am looking at vaporizing ethanol / water compounds at 104*f.
The idea came when I installed a polybutalyne pipe system on the roof of my house to pre heat water for the hot water heater. I found the AVG YEARLY temp of the water is 140*f with the summer months (8) producing 160* constant supply. My water heater now became a buffer tank to lower the water temp to 115* (tap temp)
Those collection farms you linked to are in use but the main issue appears to be the amount of energy used is almost nullifying the energy produced. Basically a wash. (Pun for sure).
I also have ideas that can modify those farms as in auto magnetic tracking systems to follow the suns energy but I have never put pen t paper on the energy requirements.
I am looking more into producing ethanol as a fuel from infinitely renewable resources such as sugar/corn sorgum/ect... The secret ingredient is vacuum. The vacuum can be created by harnessing the differential in water temps, and using that natural circulation to power the venturi's that reduce the atmospheric pressure inside a completely new concept in concentric distillation columns.
Besides the power available from solar heated water I have designed a distillation column within a distillation column. The design is 1/2 the height of any other existing column (producing the same grade product), and it uses the heat energy from the inner/outer column to stabilize the temps of each other. Meaning the ambient temp losses are minimized while making the entire process 10 times more energy efficient.
The whole concept came about in researching petrol chemical distillation columns, and how they can be scaled down to produce Ethanol at home. Once I began to learn the concepts/formulas/design flaws of the current systems in use it began to snowball into an Edison moment. The light clicked on, and I submitted 8 months of development numbers to J&G engineering laboratories. They agreed to donate their software/time to run a simulation program of the columns'vacuum system, and the numbers proved out to 97%. Meaning the petrol chemical columns that run at 68-84% around the world have not matched the efficiency of the design I developed in just 8 months.
So to answer you question... What they are doing is not practical. Water is used without recovery, and the design produces around 13% return on energy.
I am returning 97%, and I am also producing a fuel that can be used in any form to power every existing vehicle on the planet. Plus there is NO loss of water. It is all recirculated./ recycled.
Not to shabby for a dead guy that eats mushrooms/weird seeds/smokes hippie grass (just to be able to sleep. Never during the day), raises killer dogs as house pets, and rides 50cc scooters in Carrabelle Fl..
Pm me for the digits ;D
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Not shabby at all , Zombie-
I'm considered somewhat of a Science Nerd, but- more so in life sciences/biology/medical science. In other words... ya lost me with the engineering math .
I still have my qualms about Ethanol and what it does to ' gum things up' , though. And... I would support more Hemp use than I would corn ( which can feed people OR livestock-which can also feed people ) .
But- then, again , seeds/mushrooms and hippie grasses can feed people too .
Good luck in your experimentation and let us know when you make Big Bucks on it. After all...you tell us how much you love us - right ??? 8)
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I am definitely a "share the wealth kinda guy. As long as the dogs are fed, and the house bills paid there is no use for extra $$$'s
Unless you consider a full length chinchilla coat and a tanning bed necessities. Maybe my own aircraft carrier too. So I can ride my Scoot in the Indian ocean. Just thinking out loud...
The good side of pure ethanol (not blended fuel) is if your vehicle breaks down you can always run a straw into the fuel cell, and keep yourself happy while waiting for a tow. Just add a few olives, and kick back.
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:) :) :D :D ;D ;D ;D 8)
I am definitely a "share the wealth kinda guy. As long as the dogs are fed, and the house bills paid there is no use for extra $$$'s
Unless you consider a full length chinchilla coat and a tanning bed necessities. Maybe my own aircraft carrier too. So I can ride my Scoot in the Indian ocean. Just thinking out loud...
The good side of pure ethanol (not blended fuel) is if your vehicle breaks down you can always run a straw into the fuel cell, and keep yourself happy while waiting for a tow. Just add a few olives, and kick back.