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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: scootermaven on July 20, 2014, 08:02:29 PM
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So, what say all you moped/scooter riders in N.C. regarding the likely-to-pass House Bill 1145, which will require all 50 cc and less riders to register, title and insure these two-wheeled conveyances? One more House concurrence vote passing and it will likely become law soon. Any thoughts, comments on this?
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The less gov interfears with the gen population the better I like it. Personal responsibility is what matters to me, if you hit someone and don't have insurance you'd better have deep pockets so you can pay them. Getting a car/bike registered is a money grab IMO.
What ever happened to thou shall not infringe my freedom of travle?
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Money grab, agreed.
I'd like to see the numbers that tell exactly how much tax money was spent on paying for un-insured 50cc scooter damages.
If un-insured 50cc damages are costing more dollars than they generate (scooter sales/repair job income/ability to afford going to any job) I am all for reg/insurance.
If the numbers favor allowing them to carry on I am for that.
None of us can make an un informed decision here. Most of all those pigs that sign the bills, and sit texting in the freaking assembly chamber.
Show me the numbers, and let me decide. That should be the first response.
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These new laws seem to be propagating thru the U.S. This year. Virginia and Indiana, among others, are also on the list. If I recall, a 50cc caused a Dump Truck to collide with a school bus in Indiana. In the second case, most riders around here use this mode of transport because they lost their Drivers License. My plates and full coverage insurance are around $200.00. (For 250cc). For Liability only, my Vino 50 is about $18.00/year. This has probably been a long time coming, but may turn out to be a protection for serious, respected riders and possibly unsuspected motorists.
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I personally feel that it is also sort of a "money grab". Initially, it will cost the state a lot of time, energy and money just to implement such an undertaking, so the state won't realize much revenue from this for quite some time. And, by that time, a lot less folks will be using them anyway, whether it be a owner's or a potential owner's investment (affordability) issue, convenience issue, etc., which sort of negates the "imagined" revenue stream. I wish, at least initially, N.C. would adopt a similar system that S.C. has, which requires tagging, but little else....baby steps, if you will. I think N.C. legislators might be seeking for too much, too soon. I do get the safety (liability) part of it though, including, but not necessarily limited to being able to at least identify the owner of a moped/scooter in the state. If there was some way to for the scoots/peds to registered without too much red tape and maybe set-up some sort of voluntary insurance fund, I think that would be a good first step. If it meant foregoing the current house bill proposal requirements, I'd personally be delighted to contribute a reasonable donation just for the privilege of operating a 50 cc or below scoot/ped without too much hoopla. Not sure how something like I'm suggesting could be achieved, but maybe it would be possible somehow. BABY STEPS N.C., BABY STEPS.
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The same way Florida does it. Any 49cc or less scooter that is operated on Public roads MUST be titled, and tagged. 70.00 a year for the tag, and an initial fee for the title (i forget how much but it is cheap).
There is no insurance requirement
As for dump trucks hitting school buss's... Lightning has to hit somewhere. I am willing to bet more trucks have hit sh** due to a dropped cigarette than all the scooter related accidents combined. BUT they don't force a bond or insurance on smoking truck drivers vs Non smokers.
What about the "lost his lisc. guy" that NEEDS a way to work, What about the single gal that NEEDS the scooter to deliver Pizza. What about the 14-15 year olds that are working their first jobs, and both parents work? What about a guy like me that is sick, and tired of being force fed Oil, and Insc. by the money hungry F'rs that make these asinine laws?
There a a thousand GOOD reasons to allow cheap/tagged/titled vehicles on certain public roads. I can only think of one to disallow them. If they cause more harm then good.
IF the NC case is based on one random truck/bus accident it is actually a case of a politician wanting his/her name in the papers for ANYTHING that can jerk a tear.
Like I said... Neither for nor against. Prove either case w/ numbers or stay off my property!
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Mopeds and 50cc scooters that use the public roads should be treated as any other motor vehicle: Titled, insured, tagged and ridden by a licensed person that passes their states riding and written tests. Liability should be the same whether your machine goes 30 mph or Hayabusha type speeds as the public and individual is still at risk. Why should somebody get a special deal because they ride a baby scooter?
Sam:)
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Because everyone cannot afford all the do dads that most struggle to maintain. There is a REAL need for an affordable alternative.
Most of the US has no mass transit so that is out... and like I pointed out a single mom w/ just one kid cannot afford to pay inflated insurance rates due to people committing Insc. fraud daily.
Licensed, I agree 100%. Same for titled. That makes a bread trail for all of us to rely on. Perhaps a reduced insc. rate? After all a 90 lbs. scooter cannot really hurt too much. About the same a a bicycle, and they CAN drive on the same roads uninsured at about the same speeds.
Here is an example from our own ranks... I'm not telling any secret either.
Wordslinger lost his Lisc., and had THREE kids to support. Granted he chose to drink, and drive but in all honesty the judge/proscuter/defense attorney have ALL done the same.
Slinger would have been on welfare (draining YOUR pockets) if it were not for North Carolina allowing him to commute on a 49cc scooter. He also found the time to post here, and help Thousands of people repair their machines so they to could ride to work. Try taking three kids to soccer on a bike...
Multiply that times the several THOUSAND people that need these bikes, and watch how quickly your social security drains to feed the swollen Welfare rolls.
I'm really not arguing the point. Just speaking for the other side of the coin.
Funny thing is... It's the working poor that put in 60 hours, and work 2-3 jobs to do this. No one even gives an unskilled worker 40 hours anymore due to Health Care laws.
Tell that hard as nails person they cannot drive a scooter to work anymore... Who's gonna bring your bowl of Borscht to the table? Cut your hair? Check you out in the WalMart line, or even drive your kids to school?
The people that have, TRULY do not give a sh** about the ones that do not. What happened?
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Here in Nevada the state legislature tried this three times and it was rejected by them. Back in the 2013 session the DMV had done a study and realized it was a waste of time to make the 50cc and less bikes register. The state would have only received an extra $70,000 in revenue, it would have required an extra 300 hours to get the new law in their system, and finally required them to hire more employees which the state does not have the funds at this time. The majority of drivers hate those who ride scooters here in Vegas.
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Exactly my point. Let the numbers decide. You cannot argue w/ the math any more than you can change the laws of Physics. If it can save tax payer money to enact new laws so be it. They have to consider the people in my previous post as well, and their impact on the economy. You cannot play a game of cards without a full deck.
All the factors have to be tallied. I THINK it will only hurt in the long run but I do not know.
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If fees do occur then those fees should be limited as the scooter is limited to where it can go also.
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Fair!
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People will probably get upset with me, and that's fine, I'm used to that...lol
I agree with it. Here in Vermont you have to register and insure, and honestly I like having insurance on my 50 (2012 Zuma 50f) because of anything happens to it, I'm covered. I like having it registered because again, if anything happens to it (stolen) it's covered and DMV has a record of my VIN in case it gets sold and someone else tries to register it.
I have to be honest, these (what I like to call) DUI states where you can ride a 50 with no kind of registration or license or insurance scare the hell out of me. For me it's not only protection for the person on the bike, but also protection for the population. If someone loses their license because of DUI's, exactly what is going to stop them from getting on a 50 while drunk and causing property or personal injury? I'm sorry, but if some idiot on a 50 flies through and hits my car, garage or me, I would probably end up on prison after taking my damages out of their hide when I found out that they did not carry insurance.
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That brings up a good point... You can easily fit a bag of ice, and a 12 pack under the seat. If you insulate it w/ two dish towels the ice lasts all day. saw that on YouTube, sort of.
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I sent out a couple of emails today...one to the NC DMV and one the public relations director of the NC Dept. of Insurance. The one to the DMV read like this, verbatim...
"If the House Bill 1145 becomes law, how will someone register a 50cc or less moped if they do not possess a Certificate of Title or a Certificate of Origin for the vehicle, which many do not apparently since it hasn't been required in the state for so long? Also, how will the riders get insurance if they do not possess a driver's license? I realize it is a bit premature, but the word on the street is that the measure will become law and I'm trying to be proactive to see how this is gonna work. Thanks for your help!"
We will see what they say on this, if replied to, and I will post the response on the forum.
The copy below was the in the email was sent to Kerry Hall with the NC Dept. of Insurance...
"Kerry,
Hope you are well. How will folks without a driver's license be able to insure a moped/scooter of 50cc or less if House Bill 1145 passes in its current form, which will require insurance. Just curious how this is gonna work, not for me, but for a dear friend of mine who doesn't have a driver's license. Clue me in, please."
Again, we'll see what kinda response I get, if any, and I will post the response on the forum.
I have inspection questions also, like will one pass inspection if it's been modified or not and if it goes over 30 mph on a flat road? Like if you modified the stock exhaust, will it pass the emissions test? I personally have a 2-stroke that will likely not pass either test. Surely, if safety is part of the issue, these machines are going to have to be inspected, right?
Anyway, I was informed today the legislators MAY have the concurrence vote on the bill this Thur. or Fri., although it's not on the calendar as of yet. If it passes the concurrence vote, then it's likely to become law.
All this for what it's worth, of course.
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Thanks! That is what I consider a perfect post.
All the facts, and a reasonable expectation of any sort of follow thru from the people you contacted.
That is what I personally strive to accomplish here. Nice work.
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Thanks! That is what I consider a perfect post.
All the facts, and a reasonable expectation of any sort of follow thru from the people you contacted.
That is what I personally strive to accomplish here. Nice work.
You're welcome and thanks also. Hopefully I'll hear back soon. Stay tuned.
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I dont believe its a good idea. I am one hundred percent against it passing, although I am sure it will.
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What part of the bill are you opposed to, "joebro"...the insurance part or other parts of it as well?
Heard back from Kerry Hall with the NC Dept. of Insurance. He simply referred me to Tim Lucas over at the NCRB (North Carolina Rate Bureau). I sent Mr. Lucas an email, so I will report when and/or if I get a response.
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Okay, all. Here's a synopsis of my dialogue with Tim Lucas with the N.C. Rate Bureau...
Me to him...
Mr. Lewis,
Hope you are well. Kerry Hall of the NC DOI suggested I start with you regarding this situation. I sent him the exact same.
How will folks without a driver's license be able to insure a moped/scooter of 50cc or less if House Bill 1145 passes in its current form, which will require insurance? Just curious how this is gonna work, not for me, but for some folks very dear to me that ride mopeds that do not have a driver's license. Clue me in, please.
Him to me (can't copy and paste it, but here's the gist of what he said)... House Bill 1145 requires a person that owns a moped to register it and purchase liability insurance. The bill will take mopeds away from the jurisdiction of the the bureau. Since we will not be setting rates for the mopeds, it'll be up to EACH individual insurance company to determine the rates. Insurance companies are not required to write the insurance. Bottom line, not sure how each insurance company will handle moped insurance since they will not be required to write it and because it will not be under our jurisdiction.
Again, take this for what it's worth, as things MAY change. I can also ad that I called my insurance co. (Geico) and their representative clearly stated to me that Geico will write an insurance policy on a moped for folks in NC regardless if they have, have not or never had a driver's license. So, that may relieve some folks right there. Other insurance companies, in order to "stay in the game" may offer the same, so check around.
That's all I have for now. I still have questions regarding the inspection process of these "mopeds" going forward...will inspections take place like on a motorcycle at an official inspection station or will an official NC DMV inspector be involved, for example??? Hmmmm???
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It still baffles me that there are states that allow people to ride a motorized vehicle on public roads without any kind of license.
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It still baffles me that there are states that allow people to ride a motorized vehicle on public roads without any kind of license.
Yeah, maybe so. I can't speak for others, but I kinda got that from your previous post on this topic. Oh well, it is what it is and/or has bee here in the Carolina's.
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What part of the bill are you opposed to, "joebro"...the insurance part or other parts of it as well?
I am personally opposed to the whole bill. I am on the fence about the insurance though, I can see where people are coming from there.
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I think that a lot of it comes down to what you are used to. I'm used to all of these things being mandatory, so for me not having them that way kind of baffles me. When I lived in states that didn't have vehicle inspections it was the same way. However, I can also understand being from a state where these things were never mandatory, then all of a sudden they are. And, how that would be frustrating.
But, there are also driving laws that I think are totally asinine, like seatbelt laws.
I guess my big question is this, does NC have a period for public input on something like this before it's voted on? Here in Vermont there are numerous opportunities for public input before a law is passed, and that input has swayed our state Senators. If opposed and if there is that public input period, then organize to get people over to the Senate to talk about it as it seems to me that this is a law being put in place by people who have never driven a moped/scooter based on one or two incidents/observations. As with most cases when it comes to policy and politics, it seems like the words/actions of a vocal minority are dictating policy for the majority.
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According to this House Calendar, House Bill 1145 is up for concurrence vote today, so stay tuned.
http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/Calendars/CurrentCalendars/CurrentHouseCalendar.pdf (http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/Calendars/CurrentCalendars/CurrentHouseCalendar.pdf)
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N.C. House failed to concur on proposed moped regulations today, so the measure is now off to a conference committee for some sort of compromise. Read about by clicking-on the link below:
http://www.wral.com/nc-house-fails-to-concur-on-moped-regulations/13838974/ (http://www.wral.com/nc-house-fails-to-concur-on-moped-regulations/13838974/)
Maybe those of us here in N.C. won't have to hear about this for a while now, but we'll see how long it takes them to "compromise" on this bill. So, breathe easy, enjoy your scoot/ped and ride safe in the meantime.
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N.C. House failed to concur on proposed moped regulations today, so the measure is now off to a conference committee for some sort of compromise. Read about by clicking-on the link below:
http://www.wral.com/nc-house-fails-to-concur-on-moped-regulations/13838974/ (http://www.wral.com/nc-house-fails-to-concur-on-moped-regulations/13838974/)
Maybe those of us here in N.C. won't have to hear about this for a while now, but we'll see how long it takes them to "compromise" on this bill. So, breathe easy, enjoy your scoot/ped and ride safe in the meantime.
With any form of government (whether it's local, county, state or federal) "compromise" usually means fill it with unnecessary pork to get the votes needed.
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Well, evidently the House and Senate finally got together on the bill. So, it was passed and now the bill is on its way to the governor for his signature. If he signs it, it'll become law. If he doesn't sign it, it probably will still become law. The governor doesn't have to sign it, as I understand it. Most likely, he will though. Basically, if it becomes law, 50cc and less mopeds/scooters will have to be registered/tagged by July 1, 2015. No driver's license and insurance will be required this time around, but they are going to study that part of it and may go with that also down the road. Supposedly, you will not "have" to have a title or Cert. of Origin to register the vehicles, but you will have to fill-out an affidavit stating why you don't have the documentation and "supposedly" the dmv will let you register/title it to get it in the "system", all for a fee, of course. There you have it, friends.
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House and Senate finally got together on the bill
Ratified text (http://www.ncleg.net/gascripts/BillLookUp/BillLookUp.pl?Session=2013&BillID=H1145).
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Again..at the risk of upsetting people, registering, licensing and insuring is a good idea.
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I have a 125. But as far as I know 50cc have to be registered in ny. Surprised to hear they don't have to be there. Of course ny is home of the safe act which is a f$:; in the a$$ to us law abiding citizens
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I understand what these lawmakers are saying. Do the scooter shops sell the inexpensive Chinese scooters, or do they sell quality brands such as Kymco, SYM, Honda, and Yamaha? If one gets a scooter for less than 1k it is well known that 50cc scooter will be lucky if it last a year, or more. There saying the ones who ride the cheap bikes cannot afford an automobile, but they can afford at least $500 to a $1,000 for a small 50cc bike? Hmm. If they put another 50 bucks into registering and titling the bikes that insurance will be a burden to them? This is a bunch of crap. The insurance on these bikes per year will be less than $100. I know the people could afford this. If not, they might as well use mass transit for their transportation needs.
Of course the 50cc bikes do not have as much horse power as the 125cc and higher bikes do. I had two 50ccc Chinese bikes before I upgraded to my current Kymco Agility 125cc bike. If the 50cc bikes are stolen without a plate of course it makes more difficult for law enforcement to recover the bike. They must rely on the vin number which makes it more difficult for the bike to be recovered.
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Money grab or not I always think insurance is a good thing. Lets be honest, we are riding a dangerous machine. Sadly there are a lot of riders out there that don't wear helmets or other safety gear. They don't get the proper training and are going to wreck.
Even though of us with years of experience have gone down at least once. It's going to happen. In the wrong run not having a bike insurance is costing John Q Public more money.
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I understand what these lawmakers are saying. Do the scooter shops sell the inexpensive Chinese scooters, or do they sell quality brands such as Kymco, SYM, Honda, and Yamaha? If one gets a scooter for less than 1k it is well known that 50cc scooter will be lucky if it last a year, or more. There saying the ones who ride the cheap bikes cannot afford an automobile, but they can afford at least $500 to a $1,000 for a small 50cc bike? Hmm. If they put another 50 bucks into registering and titling the bikes that insurance will be a burden to them? This is a bunch of crap. The insurance on these bikes per year will be less than $100. I know the people could afford this. If not, they might as well use mass transit for their transportation needs.
Of course the 50cc bikes do not have as much horse power as the 125cc and higher bikes do. I had two 50ccc Chinese bikes before I upgraded to my current Kymco Agility 125cc bike. If the 50cc bikes are stolen without a plate of course it makes more difficult for law enforcement to recover the bike. They must rely on the vin number which makes it more difficult for the bike to be recovered.
Most of the people in these states drive the 50's because they have DUI's and have lost their licenses, and the laws there say they can drive the 50 with no license and insurance. And, as I said in an earlier post, if these idiots were stupid enough to drink and drive in a car, you KNOW they will do it on an unlicensed, uninsured 50cc bike.
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Here in Las Vegas it is the same thing about those that have the 50cc scooters. They think they can ride a bike because their driver license has been suspended. Speak to any law enforcement officer here in Nevada and they will tell you one still needs to have a class C driver license to even ride a 50cc scooter. When I had a small bike I constantly had people coming up to me telling me they did not to have at least a class C driver license. I told them they were wrong and that even the Nevada DMV says they need a driver license for those bikes. Technically they do not need a class M motorcycle license since those bikes are 50ccs and less. From my experience the majority of people tend to be stupid when it comes to an issue like this. They only hear what they want to hear.
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You're absolutely right.
Here in Vermont even a 50 has to be registered, insured and you have to have a class C (anything higher than a 50 you have to have your motorcycle endorsement). But, I constantly see ads on Craigslist where people are selling a 50 saying you don't need any kind of license, some even say you don't need insurance. The stupidity of people never ceases to amaze me, even though it probably should.