KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => Downtown 300 => Topic started by: CROSSBOLT on June 17, 2015, 02:19:06 PM
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Just passed 17000 miles on a great running DT300i and I get this squalling sound at idle sometimes. Been riding a lot the last couple of 95 deg F days--about 300 miles total with several hours of 50-60 mph steady cruising. This noise would intermittently sound while waiting at a stoplight. Definitely engine speed related as it would vary with the throttle and would disappear if I "blipped" the throttle. The sound is like a worn bearing or a dry ball bearing. Two of my suspects are water pump or one-way clutch on the starter sprocket. What do YOU think?
Karl
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The drive belts start to make a little noise when they get old, kind of what your describing.
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Hope a new belt fixes that for you Karl.
On my scoot that would be a lot simpler repair.
Maybe some new rollers and a clutch buff while Guido is in there?
Good luck with this...
Stig
(PS: I know a guy who knows a guy with a Kymco diagnostic tool, if you need it.)
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I'm thinking variator boss. I've had a few wear to the point they would yell at me to swap them.
Open it up, and grab the var. You will know right away if it has any wobble.
There are also a set of needle bearings in the clutch.
If it were a crank bearing you would know it. The bike would sound like someone had a hammer, and was beating the engine.
Can't be tranny because it happens at idle, and there is no motion in the tranny then.
CVT or water pump but the pump would most likely leak.
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Zomb, I completely forgot about the needle bearings in the clutch! Gotta go check, RIGHT NOW!!
I am not really worried about engine bearings 'cause like you said, hammering. It's not a "heavy enough" sound. I ain't ruling out the drive belt, B & L, but I will check.....
Stig, I have been thinking about sliders and stuff....ya suppose that analyzer could tell me what the problem is? Yeah, right!
Karl
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Zomb, I completely forgot about the needle bearings in the clutch! Gotta go check, RIGHT NOW!!
I am not really worried about engine bearings 'cause like you said, hammering. It's not a "heavy enough" sound. I ain't ruling out the drive belt, B & L, but I will check.....
Stig, I have been thinking about sliders and stuff....ya suppose that analyzer could tell me what the problem is? Yeah, right!
Karl
I have noticed with my 250, the belt starts to sound bad well before it reaches the service limit. Kind of a rough, plastic friction noise. Hard to describe, but what you described sounds like it. Are you on your second belt by now?
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You guys got me to look into the CVT and you'll never guess what I found! Sunflower seeds! Filled up the intake breather "hose" and nearly shut off the intake COOLING air to the variator outer case. Here is what I found besides what I suspect is the cause: The front pulley sleeve bone dry. Still a good fit but no lube at all. Original belt missing pieces from the inside where the "teeth" are the biggest. The inner, metal case has a ball bearing to support the clutch bell and it is a slip fit to a sleeve behind the clutch bolt. The sleeve and the inner race showed fretting.
The needle roller bearing race looked really good as did the shaft. Cleaned out the variator and rollers. The rollers looked good and measured 20x12 mm and weighed 15 grams. The clutch shoes looked good and were de-glazed. The clutch bell looked great and got roughed up with some 200 grit emery cloth. The needle roller got greased as well as the sleeve. The bearing by the clutch got a dab of grease. The belt or what was left was measured at 24 mm wide and outside roughly 1004 mm. 'Twas very hard to read inscription on the drive belt: Mitsubohi, Kymco, 23_00_LE_7-001. The lower dashes indicate characters illegible. Put everything back together and test rode to see if the problem still existed: it did not. Parked it and will order a new belt come Monday. This belt would still be in service with all its teeth has not the cooling air been blocked.
Now I gotta see what to do about a new belt. Hey, B & L, whatcha got for the DT300i? Dee-dee, where did you get your belt? By the way, found something missing when searching Kymco parts diagrams for water pump bearings: water pump bearings! Not shown on the parts diagrams!
Karl
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You guys got me to look into the CVT and you'll never guess what I found! Sunflower seeds! Filled up the intake breather "hose" and nearly shut off the intake COOLING air to the variator outer case. Here is what I found besides what I suspect is the cause: The front pulley sleeve bone dry. Still a good fit but no lube at all. Original belt missing pieces from the inside where the "teeth" are the biggest. The inner, metal case has a ball bearing to support the clutch bell and it is a slip fit to a sleeve behind the clutch bolt. The sleeve and the inner race showed fretting.
The needle roller bearing race looked really good as did the shaft. Cleaned out the variator and rollers. The rollers looked good and measured 20x12 mm and weighed 15 grams. The clutch shoes looked good and were de-glazed. The clutch bell looked great and got roughed up with some 200 grit emery cloth. The needle roller got greased as well as the sleeve. The bearing by the clutch got a dab of grease. The belt or what was left was measured at 24 mm wide and outside roughly 1004 mm. 'Twas very hard to read inscription on the drive belt: Mitsubohi, Kymco, 23_00_LE_7-001. The lower dashes indicate characters illegible. Put everything back together and test rode to see if the problem still existed: it did not. Parked it and will order a new belt come Monday. This belt would still be in service with all its teeth has not the cooling air been blocked.
Now I gotta see what to do about a new belt. Hey, B & L, whatcha got for the DT300i? Dee-dee, where did you get your belt? By the way, found something missing when searching Kymco parts diagrams for water pump bearings: water pump bearings! Not shown on the parts diagrams!
Karl
Good find cross bolt, one note: the variator boss is dry lubed, idk the science behind it but the brass sleeve pressed into the movable half of the variator is "self lubricating". I do tend to put a tiny dab of malossi MRG grease on, but I'm pretty sure it just flings off in a mile or two. I'll check on the belt, not too many 300's here so I don't believe we have it in stock but I'll get you a price, would be about a week from key co to us then a day or two usps to your door. Damn mice!!! If your bike sits out a lot, my dad has a huge problem with mice in California and the surround the cars with a sheet metal wall and it keeps them out pretty good.
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300i downtown belt I order from powersportswarehouse.com cost $98.99 they are located near charlotte NC., so fast delivery, could you measure the belt when it arrives, I have got belts 1004 mm. to 1010 mm. 25.5 wide to 24 mm. on my 4 th belt in my stock for a spare, the first belt looks like new with 30,000 km. on it,
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Thanks, guys! That was fast! De dee, I used your link and called those at Power Sports Whse but I could not get a real person on the phone. Anyway, I left a message and probably will order from them IF they have it in stock.....otherwise I'll get it from B & L. The local dealers have NOTHING in stock and want an arm and a leg for "handling & shipping".
Karl
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Note to self...
Banana in tailpipe "Old Hat".
Sunflower seeds in CVT "New School".
B&L is correct on the drive boss. The sleeve in the Var. is silica bronze, and it is self lubing.
I just lube the crankshaft to prevent rust, and whatever is on my fingers is enough to "prime" the drive boss. Just so it is slick to start the process.
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Thanks, guys! That was fast! De dee, I used your link and called those at Power Sports Whse but I could not get a real person on the phone. Anyway, I left a message and probably will order from them IF they have it in stock.....otherwise I'll get it from B & L. The local dealers have NOTHING in stock and want an arm and a leg for "handling & shipping".
Karl
I can't even touch that power sports $98 belt, we have them listed at $110. I'm not sure how that company is making any money selling those at $98, but I can tell you they most likely skimp on customer service. I can do $110 and stuff it in a flat rate box for $6, and there are real people you can talk to if you like haha. Like I said, it would be coming from SC kymco warehouse, so it would be 7-10 days to your door.
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It really takes them 7-10 days?
Karl
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Or three months. Depends on the mood.
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Yeah I don't know why, there parts shipping is expensive and slow, I can ship stuff usps for cheap and fast.
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I have called Power Sports Warehouse, sent e-mail, sent e-mail on their website and get no response. I will order the belt from them IF they have it on the shelf. De Dee, are these guys just one guy in a garage? That's OK with me since that is how Amazon got started. Anyone have any ideas?
Karl
Update: Got tired of trying to contact these guys so I read some on-line reviews. Boy! Were the reviews BAD! There were a couple like De Dee that were happy as clams but most of them were terrible. Most said they could not talk to anyone on the phone. So I ordered the belt from my dealer. He can't drop ship so I will go to Memphis to pick it up. That's OK. I'll take the wife out to eat when we are there!
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I have called Power Sports Warehouse, sent e-mail, sent e-mail on their website and get no response. I will order the belt from them IF they have it on the shelf. De Dee, are these guys just one guy in a garage? That's OK with me since that is how Amazon got started. Anyone have any ideas?
Karl
Update: Got tired of trying to contact these guys so I read some on-line reviews. Boy! Were the reviews BAD! There were a couple like De Dee that were happy as clams but most of them were terrible. Most said they could not talk to anyone on the phone. So I ordered the belt from my dealer. He can't drop ship so I will go to Memphis to pick it up. That's OK. I'll take the wife out to eat when we are there!
I think those parts places are Dealers, because you have to be a dealer to order Kymco parts, and they have online parts sales. They (most likely) order the part from Kymco USA when an order is placed then send the part out when they get it. Kymco is slow, and if I don't warn my customers about the 7-10 day wait they WILL get mad. These online guys don't warn at all, and there is no way they can keep an insane level of parts in stock, and like I said I have no idea how they are making money.
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B & L, I would have ordered that belt from you if I could a figured out how to justify a trip to Oregon!
Karl
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You could have picked me up on they way. We could have done one of those interdiction things, and rescued B&L from whatever cult is keeping him in Portland.
Missed opportunities ...
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Ordered belt on Friday, it arrived yesterday, Wednesday! Three working days! Looks like KYMCO US is really on the stick! Go to Memphis to pick it up, put it on tomorrow.
Karl
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Ordered belt on Friday, it arrived yesterday, Wednesday! Three working days! Looks like KYMCO US is really on the stick! Go to Memphis to pick it up, put it on tomorrow.
Karl
Cool beans there Karl....
If you see Elvis, tell him Stig says howdy.
Sent from my Snoopy raft in the Gulf o' Mexico.
Stig
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I saw you floating past Stig. It looks like you forgot the sun screen!
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Picked up the belt today! De-Dee, measured the belt and it is 1004 mm around the outside and 24.5 mm width for the correct part number 23100-LEA7-E01. Sounds like Power Sports sent you a bogus that was 1010 mm x 25 mm. The big thing here is my belt lost only .5 mm in nearly 18000 miles and would still be going strong had it not overheated. Will put it on this weekend and will report. Read all your inputs on how to get it on the driven sheave (pulley) so all should go well.
Karl
Update: Installed new belt today, 26 June, test ride successful, very smooth and quiet. Many vibrations missing that I thought were normal. Dealer sold the belt for significantly less than I expected: $109.99 out the door! I WILL get the next one from him. Thanks for all your inputs!
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I have a 12 mm. ( 1/2 ) " belt sander that is perfect for sanding the ramps in a variator, made by black and decker, I can change the ramps in a hour, I file the ramp so it is a lot longer ,so the sliders move better for me so my rpm. is lower at speed,. I checked the belt on the variator with the cover off and the belt rides higher on the variator, with my mods, = lower rpm. at speed