KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => Grandvista 250 => Topic started by: Al Grande on July 04, 2010, 10:38:28 PM
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>:( It all started on the last week of April. I was ready to leave my Doctor's office. I started up my GV and I heard a whirling sound I never heard before. I pressed the kill switch and the starter stayed on trying to turn the engine on. I rode it to my Kymco dealer. They took a full day to diagnose the problem. They said that the starter stayed on due to a low battery. That didn't make sense to me. He explained that when the battery gets low, it will short out causing the starter to stay on. They changed the battery and replaced the starter solenoid.
5 weeks later, it happened again. After starting the engine, the starter solenoid stayed on. I rode it to my dealer. They checked it out and 2 days later told me that they believed that the stator isn't providing enough voltage to charge the system. So, the battery got low, causing it to short out (their words not mine), which caused my starter to stay on. So, they kept my scooter for 2 weeks as they waited for a new stator, starter solenoid, voltage regulator.
Well, last Friday, 7/2/2010, my scooter was ready. They said the new stator is producing 13.7 volts and is charging the system. And, all this was covered by the warranty. So, my costs was $0.00 for $1,000 of work. Great! I got my scooter back after 2 weeks of walking and riding the damn bus to work and my medical appointments. Everything is great, the scooter is riding smooth.
Today, Sunday 7/4/2010, 2 days after I got my scoot back, the same problem!!! The starter is staying on. I don't know what's going on. Monday, I'm taking back to the dealer for more repair.
Has this problem happened to any of you guys?
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...i've never heard of this before, but let's break it down...
..it's a re-occurring problem, that your dealer is taking stabs at trying to fix, while suckin' up warranty money...
..with that being said, i would first look at the contacts in the starter button...
..maybe spray some plastic grade electrical contact cleaner up into the housing around the button...
..can't hurt anything in doing so...
..something is keeping your engine's "start" circuit closed...that circuit shouild "open" when you release the starter button...
..the mechanical pushbutton would be the most likely cause...
peace
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Thanks Wordslinger,
I never thought of my dealer as "sucking up" warranty money. But, you know, you may be correct. The 2nd time I brought my GV in, they did tell me that they performed over $1,000 of service trying to locate the problem, which they will charge to Kymco USA as a warranty claim. I don't want to think of my local Kymco dealer as crooked as that, but times are tough. They have no sales of any scooters due to the recession. Maybe, they are "sucking up" the warranty money.
They are such nice people there too.
:o
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Also, all this began after 13 months I've be been riding my GV 250 without any serious problems. Up to 9,000 miles, then this problem with the starter and stator.
The 2 things I didn't like about my GV is that it really didn't get real good mpgs in the city. 37-49 mpg was my city driving range. When I rode my GV from Sacramento to Stockton, on a county road, I only got it up to 69 mph and 54 mpg. I couldn't go any faster than that. All those GV owners who brag about getting 75 mph on their scoots, are you sure you're really travelling 75 mph? Kymco's speedometers are notoriously optimistic, about 20 % or more.
I don't want to sound like a cry baby, but for me Kymco isn't a fantastic brand. Good engines, yes they are. But due to this re-occurring electrical problem I'm having, I'm never going to buy another Kymco. Once, they fix my scoot, I'm selling it or trading it in for another brand. I'm leaning towards SYM. Many scooterists here in Sacramento, ride either SYM, Honda, Vespa or any Piaggio, Genuine Buddy, yamaha or Suzuki. They also, use to ride Kymco until problems occurred. They then switched brands.
If anyone else feels the same about their Kymcos, let me know. I don't think I'm the only one going through this.
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It might be worth trying a new relay, it may not be the problem but inexpensive, and it just might be where the trouble is.
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I never thought of my dealer as "sucking up" warranty money
..i'm not saying itsa "bad" thing..
..they may genuinely not know where the problem is..
..from what you say they have replaced, i think that's likely...
..i wouldn't have started where they did...
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Update, today, 7/5/2010, my GV is starting normally. This is weird!
Yesterday, the starter stayed stuck on the "ON" position. Rode home, disconnected the battery before it drained of all power and before the starter burned itself out.
This morning, I was planning to ride my GV back to the dealer. I reconnected the battery. Usually, if the starter is stuck, once the battery is reconnected, it begins turning the engine over. Well, this morning, that didn't happen. The normal Met-in light came on, but no engine turning over. So, I turned the key to the start position and pressed the start button. The engine started normally. Confused, I hit the Kill switch and the engine stopped normally. So, I re-started the engine, and it started normally! Again, weird. So, I gave it a ride around my neighborhood returned home, pressed the Kill switch, the engine shut-off normally. Restarted, my GV started normally. ???
Don't know if it really was the starter solenoid like the dealer said or was it a stuck starter button?
Anyway, I still have no confidence in my GV. I'll ride it when I have to, but I'll rely on the bus to get to work. I'll keep socking away money to buy a new scooter. Mostly likely, a SYM HD 200. I heard a lot of good things about this scooter, and right now SYM has slashed their prices by 10%.
I would like to thank all of you for your comments.
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Quite understandable, is hard to trust a machine when it has been unreliable. Good luck with your new scoot.
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Update, today, 2/5/2010, my GV is starting normally. This is weird!
Yesterday, the starter stayed stuck on the "ON" position. Rode home, disconnected the battery before it drained of all power and before the starter burned itself out.
This morning, I was planning to ride my GV back to the dealer. I reconnected the battery. Usually, if the starter is stuck, once the battery is reconnected, it begins turning the engine over. Well, this morning, that didn't happen. The normal Met-in light came on, but no engine turning over. So, I turned the key to the start position and pressed the start button. The engine started normally. Confused, I hit the Kill switch and the engine stopped normally. So, I re-started the engine, and it started normally! Again, weird. So, I gave it a ride around my neighborhood returned home, pressed the Kill switch, the engine shut-off normally. Restarted, my GV started normally. ???
Don't know if it really was the starter solenoid like the dealer said or was it a stuck starter button?
Anyway, I still have no confidence in my GV. I'll ride it when I have to, but I'll rely on the bus to get to work. I'll keep socking away money to buy a new scooter. Mostly likely, a SYM HD 200. I heard a lot of good things about this scooter, and right now SYM has slashed their prices by 10%.
I would like to thank all of you for your comments.
To me this looks like a complete banal thing that should be quiet trivial to fix.
It can be either solenoid, bendix that gets stuck or, even worse, stupid starter button getting stuck.
I would take this into my own hands, at least the button part. Disconnect the button and connect a simple ON/OFF switch you can buy in Radio Shack or wherever you buy those things. If you use it for a while and there are no problems, it is probably solenoid or bendix that have to be replaced.
Like I said, it is no reason for scoot replacement but can be a source of disappointment, a lot of nervousness etc.
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I have a 2008 and it happened to me also. The first time was June 4, 2010. Mechanic said it was a starter relay switch. Paid a couple hundred dollars to get it fixed. 2 weeks later same thing happened. Took it back to the mechanic and today is July 8 still no word from the mechanic other than waiting for a part.......not too happy with scoot or mechanic.
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....wwowww..
...hate to hear those stories, but they are sso familiar...
..we've all felt th' pain...
..i'm still putting my money on the starter pushbutton or contacts...
..it's exposed to atmosphere, subjected to manual depression time and time again...
..or at least mine is, as i ride every day...lol...
..the scoot is a good one, most likely..
..a lot of shops have people that are still learning..
..mention this forum the next time you talk to them, and even give them the url to your post...
..it may be that together, we all can figure this out...
...and, Welcome to th' Forum!!
peace
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Problem is on the "Starter Relay". replace it with a good one
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...sweet...
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Yes the mechanic replaced the starter relay the first time. Why would it happen again? That is the question. I wonder how many other GV's this has happened to?
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..well, it shouldn't keep happening...unless there is another problem...
..could be nothing more than a wire with the insulation rubbed off of it...
..the pushbutton's "contacts", when depressed, create a circuit for electricity to flow to the starter relay...energizing the relay's coil...
..the coil closes a set of contacts that allows a greater flow of electricity to flow thru, to the starter motor...
..either the relay's contacts are sticking, or the pushbutton's contacts are sticking, thus keeping the relay energized...
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With no wiring diagram it's hard to figure. Usually you think of a switch applying voltage to somewhere, but the starter switch may be applying ground to the starter relay instead, so if that wire were being grounded somewhere else like the frame, that would do it.
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..the starter motor goes to ground there...the switch supplies voltage to the relay, which allows voltage to pass thru it's contacts to the starter...
..there is a wiring diagram in the service manual...
peace
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I've experienced similar problem with People S 250. Replaced starter relay 3 weeks ago as relay appeared to be stuck open and wouldn't start. Problem seemed solved. Now starter won't stop as it appears new relay is stuck closed. Will check for worn wires as well as contacts on starter button. Battery is new. The starter relays have cost about $50 with shipping. I read on the forum that a standard Bosch 30 amp automotive relay could be used in place of the OEM part as long as the OEM connectors were soldered into place. That would sure make experimenting less expensive. Thanks for your thoughts.
Have now searched for worn wires and checked starter button. Don't see any problems. Scoot starts when battery connected and starter button pressed, but starter continues to run after engine switch turned off. Any thoughts on what might cause two relays to stick in different positions? Any help on this would be appreciated. Thanks.
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Could be a plan. wondering how long my s200 starter is going to last. Got a local shop that will let me look at there info and mitsubshi happens to cross allot with belts and such. My starter sounds a little wound too tight,but continues to work.(don't sound just right). Been hard to get any straight info from kymco even.
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..these 4-strokes wear hard on the starter...
..i'm running a "hybrid" kymco/marshin that i assembled...(not an easy task)
..it's beginning to drag and whine some already...
..put it on my 2-stroke and it sings like a bird...
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Update on my electrical (starter) problems with my worthless GV 250. I still have the problem with the starter staying on after I start up the GV. It's usually once every few weeks this happens, but after I get my scoot home, I disconnect the battery, and it shuts off the engine. The next day, I reconnect the battery, and all is well. The GV starts up without a problem and shuts off normally.
Last week (8/17/10) I rode the GV to the mechanic just to have them check it out. I told them that once the starter stays on, I disconnect the battery, leave it alone for the night, and the next morning everything is cool.
They check it out and they can't figure out why it's doing this. They placed an order for a brand new starter (the whole starter, not just the solenoid). They believe the starter assembly is the culprit, though they're not sure. It's still under warranty, so, I'm letting them do it.
Anyway, today, in the 108 degree heat, I left work, started up my GV, and BAM, the starter stays ON. Screw it I thought, and rode my scoot home. Weird thing, the extra whurrling sound of the starter staying ON, stops and the scooter is running normally.
I get home shut off the GV, and restart it without a hitch. It's OK, for now.
I don't get it. The starter stays ON, then after riding it a couple of blocks, the starter shuts off normal - without sticking.
I'm still saving up money to buy a new scooter. Hopefully, by November, I'll be riding a new scooter. No more Kymco!
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Sorry to hear there's still this problem. Glad the dealer is gonna step up, though.
I'm really sorry this seems to be a problem with GVs in general because I've been thinking when I get older and need to downsize I would go with the GV. I really like it's styling and have heard many good things about it . . . as well as the bad now.
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Al,
Which shop are you taking your scoot to? I would also wonder why the bike is limited to the mid 60's.
I am local to Sacramento. PM me and we can discuss your options.
My experience is that Kymcos are very reliable bikes. The GV, B&W and P250 (both styles) all use just about the motor and CVT. Mine will haul my 2-up sized butt to 80 MPH any time I care for it to.
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...warranty...
..i'm sorry, but at the least, if they just can't seem to figure it out, they can certainly replace all the components, even wiring that's in the circuit....
..itsa no-brainer to me...
..you should push your shop to get this right...
peace
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..i've read back through the posts, and i didn't see where they replaced the $10.00 micro-switch in the start pushbutton...
..can you get to the connector at the starter motor fairly easily??
..if you can, you could try unplugging it the next time this happens, as it's happening...
..if the starter motor stops, then you know there is voltage being supplied to the starter motor when it should not be...
..one should then be able to trace, using a digital voltmeter and a wiring schematic, the source of the errant voltage...
..it's a process of elimination that i do on a regular basis, troubleshooting electrical issues on the equipment where i work...any good shop mechanic should be able to trace it back...
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Sounds like a dodgy relay, but, is it a whole batch they are getting rid of? I would be trying a non genuine relay, just out of curiosity, if that fixes it then would mount a relay block and use it permanently.
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I worked as an electronics technician for over 30 yrs. before retiring, and have seen relay contacts weld shut. This happens mostly in high current situations where current is being applied to an inductive load like a motor. When the contacts try to open, the electric field of the motor collapses and tries to maintain current, causing an arc in the contacts. I suspect the relays are marginal by design, or they just happened to manufacture a bad batch. A capacitor across the contacts would give the current spike somewhere to go, like a condenser used to do in the old points ignition systems which I remember fondly. LOL
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A capacitor across the contacts would give the current spike somewhere to go
..yes it would...
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Dammit, I can't stop thinking about this problem. Intermittents are the most challenging but the most rewarding when fixed. I was looking at the wiring diagram of the start circuit of my S200 and it's pretty basic, so I think it's fair to assume it applies to most Kymcos. The relay is energized when 12v is applied via the ignition switch and either stop switch. The cicuit is completed when ground is applied to the other side of the relay via the start switch. What I would do is make a poor man's voltmeter. Get a 12v bulb and socket. Make the wires longer. Tape the bulb where you can se it when riding. Bare the wires on the other end and hook into the relay wiring. You could probably poke the bare ends into the connector somehow. Tape it all up. When you start the scoot the light will go on and go out when you release the start button. Ride normally and if your starter motor goes nuts, check your light. If it's off your relay is welded shut. If it's on, your relay is energized. Since the starter circuit is completed by ground being applied to the relay, you may have a starter wire pinched to the frame somewhere. It happens. Might be at the steering head from the wear of steering.
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..you've hit the nail on the head, Agent Bob!!!
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I FINALLY GOT RID OF THE GRAND VISTA!!!!!!!!!!
2 weeks ago, the dealership replaced my starter (this is the one that caused me 6 months of constant frustration). They told me my warranty covered all costs. They also said that they hoped this will solve the problem. They still don't know why the starter kept staying "on" after turning over the engine.
Well, 3 days later - with the new starter - it happened again >:( After starting the engine, the starter stayed on! I rode it home, disconnected the battery. Next, I placed it on sale on Craigslist for $500. Piece-of-crap scooter!! It sold in 2 days. After this, no more f***ing KYMCO!
I'm saving up for a Suzuki Burgman 650. f*** the Grand Vista 250!!!!
If anyone on this forum owns a Grand Vista 250, GET RID OF IT QUICKLY!
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Or patiently work out the problem. I own a Honda Elite scoot' which I bought new in '04. It suddenly quit running. After over a year and two long stays at the local Honda dealer and including the national and regional Honda technical support people couldn't figure it out, it turned out to be a loose valve seat. This is a very highly vaunted HONDA failure at less than 4,000 miles. I was angry, patient and persistant...
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I am having the same problem on the Yaeger 200i.
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Just wait until Al Grande drops his new Burgman 650 for the first time! The lighter Grand Vista is just a WHOLE LOT easier to pick up. I slipped and dropped my Burgman once in the middle of the road (before seeing a video on youtube on the correct way to pick up a dropped motorcycle) and thought I was gunna bust my guts.
Jack
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Also, all this began after 13 months I've be been riding my GV 250 without any serious problems. Up to 9,000 miles, then this problem with the starter and stator.
The 2 things I didn't like about my GV is that it really didn't get real good mpgs in the city. 37-49 mpg was my city driving range. When I rode my GV from Sacramento to Stockton, on a county road, I only got it up to 69 mph and 54 mpg. I couldn't go any faster than that. All those GV owners who brag about getting 75 mph on their scoots, are you sure you're really travelling 75 mph? Kymco's speedometers are notoriously optimistic, about 20 % or more.
I don't want to sound like a cry baby, but for me Kymco isn't a fantastic brand. Good engines, yes they are. But due to this re-occurring electrical problem I'm having, I'm never going to buy another Kymco. Once, they fix my scoot, I'm selling it or trading it in for another brand. I'm leaning towards SYM. Many scooterists here in Sacramento, ride either SYM, Honda, Vespa or any Piaggio, Genuine Buddy, yamaha or Suzuki. They also, use to ride Kymco until problems occurred. They then switched brands.
If anyone else feels the same about their Kymcos, let me know. I don't think I'm the only one going through this.
I have a '09 GV 250, and my GPS says the mph are right on the money. But my mpg are not that great. I am getting about 50 mpg with combined city and country driving.
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I had the same problem - starter staying on after motor has started - replaced starter relay and it did the same thing - replaced battery with brand new battery and VOILA - fixed!
Also my top speed on the GV is about 68mph - i have the big givi windshield on and i weigh 290 lbs - i get about 50 mpg
Scooter indicates 68mph and gps says 68.
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I had the same issue and after reading this thread I cleaned out the starter button with contact cleaner and worked it on and off now prob is gone!!! just a button issue.
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The real problem was that the dealer didn't have the skills to fix it. It could also be the relay. I have my issues with the GV but I've put 8K on it in two years without too much to complain about. Much less maintenance than any of the many motorcycles I have owned.
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Just for the record, here's how to pick up a bike, as mentioned by Slowjack:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeLkrPkjimo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeLkrPkjimo)
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I had the same problem - starter staying on after motor has started - replaced starter relay and it did the same thing - replaced battery with brand new battery and VOILA - fixed!
Also my top speed on the GV is about 68mph - i have the big givi windshield on and i weigh 290 lbs - i get about 50 mpg
Scooter indicates 68mph and gps says 68.
That is really weird that the replacing the battery solved it. Your numbers are right on the money. I weigh about 162 and average around 50 mpg due to the tall givi windshield and can reach about 83mph on level highway indicated - 6 mph or speedoerror ='s about 76 mph. With the stock windshield I could reach about 86mph - 6 mph = 80 mph. Lower speeds on a long trip i have gotten as much as 61 mpg.
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The Old 'starter keeps running' and won't stop issue ... lol is a classic motorcycle problem that cuts across years, makes, models, brands and effects scooters too. Possible solutions: 1. relay, handlebar switch, starter clutch (part inside the starter used by most motorcycles) and apparently a low battery?
I don't blame Al Grande for hating his GV I would to if it happened to me. He'll do great with the big burgie 650's power and ride quality but he will miss the GV's easy light handling and mpg and easy in town / city handling.
We all know the GV is a great machine. I bought my used 4 years ago with 2600 miles and as of today have 17,350! Main issue has been the defective design of the exhaust which I have welded 3 times to fix cracks or rattles. Currently has a rattle but hasn't cracked .... yet ;) I may make a custom slipon if it breaks again.
Other issues was unclogging the pilot jet - not the scoots fault but I should have replaced the carb with a new one.
Minor issues - loose coil bolt caused sudden stop of motor or no start resolved with tightening and adding loctite.