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Scooters - Big Bore => Xciting 500 => Topic started by: xsel777 on November 08, 2017, 09:12:41 PM
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Xciting 500
I have ridden 1000 km since the engine job was done.
In that time i have had to topup with 750 ml oil, which is excessive.
The tail pipe is dry, but sootie.
The expansion tank water is green.
I don't see smoke in the mirror while driving.
I don't see smoke when i start it in the morning.
There is no pool of oil under the scooter where I park overnight or anywhere else i park.
The usual suspect of the grommet where the alternator wires exit the engine is wet with oil.
But Not dripping.
This is the only evidence of oil outside the engine.
Should I assume that this is where the missing oil is going?
Exiting the engine via the grommet.
What recommendations do you have?
I can say that silicone did not help last time i tried to fix it. I applied it on the outside, and it seems there is a pressure, pushing the oil out, because the grommet is on top of the engine
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Wow, that is quite a puzzler. It certainly seems that such a large quantity of oil vanishing should leave more evidence behind, i.e. puddles of oil or smoke. I think you have covered all the bases, but then the oil must be going somewhere. Perhaps it only leaks at higher RPM and blows away at speed. If that were the case (and I doubt it would be), then an inspection of the engine exterior should show some area wet with oil. If 750 ml were leaking out of the alternator wire grommet (and here again I doubt that it could), it should be pretty wet in that area. You said the expansion tank coolant looks okay -- check the radiator, because sometimes the contaminated coolant might not be getting to the expansion tank. Also, your oil is not milky?
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I once bought a used van that used a quart of oil every 75 miles! I couldn't believe it was burning it because it wasn't noticeable except at speed and even then not readily obvious. Suggestion: Run it at night with someone behind you, if it's smoking you (and he) will readily see it in his headlights. Check the spark plug, too.
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If there are no external leaks, it has to be burning oil. As someone else said, it’s likely only at higher rpm’s. Also, the catalytic converter (Iï¸ think this has one) is often able to “clean up†evidence of oil consumption , dry it up enough to make it look like soot, if it’s a relatively small amount and at higher rpm’s.
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If you are burning the oil, which I'm convinced you are, here's what I'd do: Drain the oil, leave the filter in, fill it with 5 weight NON-synthetic, then ride it like you stole it, always accelerating, decelerating, for 100km. Then top off the oil, taking note of the amount it took. Do this four or five times, seeing if it takes less oil each time, as those rings seat. If oil use is dropping off, I'd continue until 1000km, or until oil consumption stops, then switch to a new filter, fill it with 5w-40 non-synthetic for a few thousand km, then after you are not burning above normal amount of oil, use synthetic.
If you are still burning copious oil after 500-600 km you have something else wrong: scored cylinder, broken ring, etc. and you will have to start over.
Report back, please. Share what you have done...and learned.
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Stu, thanks. This is definately worth a shot . Can't do any further damage, right?
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Update:
Well, something is not right. I took a trip to stellenbosch, and i heard a whistling. Luckily I was near a garage, so I stopped there and saw that the water pipe near the water pump is swollen and a little slit in it, and frayed fabric can be seen.
Now the bike won't start.
So the bike shop is coming to collect it.
At another bike shop, i was told that the sleeve could be oval, which would account for oil vanishing.
I checked the expansion tank, and it is still green in there.
Oh, man. I am getting tired of this.
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Hey 777: Sorry to read of your frustrating problems. If you are agreeable, I'd like to ask some questions:
Why did you re-ring your engine?
What did you do to the cylinder bore, if anything?
What oil did you use after rebuild?
I ask because when I used to rebuild engines we would send the block to the machine shop to have the cylinders bored out; they would come back with cross-hash marks, very rough and the rings had to work them smooth with proper "break-in" oil and driving techniques. I wonder if things have changed since those times ('50's---'80's). People don't break-in new cars or motorcycles these days.
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Stuo, I found oil floating on top of the expansion tank one day, so the decision was made to open the engine, as I had already noted high oil usage.
The head was skimmed, new rings and valve stem seals.
This cylinder has a sleeve so I have asked the shop to check that out as a possibility.
The shop put in my supplied mobil actevo 4t synthetic oil. Nobody mentioned running in oil. They just took my money, gave me my keys , and sent me in my way.
And I had just bought some mineral oil today, before the water pipe burst.!
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There are no oversized pistons rings or sleeves for the 500cc scooter. Certainly not in South Africa, for sure. So it is stock, or walk. ðŸ˜
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Thanks for the fast response. I wonder if they closely inspected the cylinder. A scratch or gouge will cause oil consumption, I know from experience.
I wish you a happy resolution. Let us know the final act.
Good luck.
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I thought this thread needs an update with the latest happenings that seem related.
The one water pipe burst again in the same spot, just above the water pump, the short pipe that is an elbow shape.. Other pipes were swollen, so they are all getting replaced.
It turns out that there was so much oil in the water that it was like a paste, so the radiator had to be flushed at a radiator place and then the engine will get flushed, plus the thermostat was stuck solid.
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I thought this thread needs an update with the latest happenings that seem related.
The one water pipe burst again in the same spot, just above the water pump, the short pipe that is an elbow shape.. Other pipes were swollen, so they are all getting replaced.
It turns out that there was so much oil in the water that it was like a paste, so the radiator had to be flushed at a radiator place and then the engine will get flushed, plus the thermostat was stuck solid.
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Thanks Xsel….
You do not quit easily!
Stig
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I took the scoot away from the the "agents" and have given it to a motorcycle workshop that does the local traffic dept bikes. I am hoping that this fact means something as I havent ever seen broken traffic bikes on the side of the road. ðŸ˜.
The mechie says that this residue is probably from the previous job when the head gasket blew. Or it could be the mechanical seal that was not installed properly.
The scoot starts and runs so it is probable that there is no major damage(water ran out of split pipe - took 2 litres to fill).
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I admire your persistence. I would have given it both barrels of my 10 gauge, putting it out of its misery. Or...just add oil frequently and ride it.
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I have no choice, as petrol is a total ripoff here. And I cant afford another highway capable bike, so just continue to repair this instead. And I REALLY like this scoot!
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The radiator is getting a good clean out, I am hoping tomorrow I will hear good news.
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Yep, the news was good. I am picking it up within the hour.
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How's everything now?
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All good thanks.
Well mostly. I am watching the temp gauge like a hawk, but it behaves very erratically.
I think there might be a cable issue.
I have fiddled with it a bit, resoldered a connector, tightened two others, but still it takes forever to reach operating temp, and when hurtling down the freeway, it goes back to zero(me thinks there is no thermostat).
Back to zero happened twice, after I had seen it was in the middle. But still, there is a possibility of a loose connection. So, two choices, I did the wire work, but did not test continuety, or no thermostat.
I will ask the workshop.
That thermostat is an odd size, so they might have skipped it as they are not a Kymco agent.
Saturday, I will take the fairing off so I can check the radiator filler for oil evidence.
I can no longer trust this scoot, and after every repair I drive slower and slower, in the hope it won't break down again.
Naw, not really.... 😀
Just for a few days, then I race around again, as the rush is too good to give up.
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All good thanks.
Well mostly. I am watching the temp gauge like a hawk, but it behaves very erratically.
I think there might be a cable issue.
I have fiddled with it a bit, resoldered a connector, tightened two others, but still it takes forever to reach operating temp, and when hurtling down the freeway, it goes back to zero(me thinks there is no thermostat).
Back to zero happened twice, after I had seen it was in the middle. But still, there is a possibility of a loose connection. So, two choices, I did the wire work, but did not test continuety, or no thermostat.
I will ask the workshop.
That thermostat is an odd size, so they might have skipped it as they are not a Kymco agent.
Saturday, I will take the fairing off so I can check the radiator filler for oil evidence.
I can no longer trust this scoot, and after every repair I drive slower and slower, in the hope it won't break down again.
Naw, not really.... 😀
Just for a few days, then I race around again, as the rush is too good to give up.
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Maybe your dealer has a couple nice used scooters for sale. Substitute monthly payments for those constant repair bills?....and ride something reliable?
Stig
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Thanks Stig for the suggestion. I will park that as a future idea to explore, as I don't want a monthly instalment at this time, because I need my finances to improve and stabalize at a higher level first.
I actually prefer to buy cash.
When my ship comes in I will try to find a Tmax 500(the newer one). The Honda silverwing is also under consideration.
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The new workshop actually skipped fitting a replacement thermostat. Un-flipping-believable!
I have a spare so at some stage soon, I will fit it. Right now it is raining,in Cape Town (yippee, day zero is moving further back), so maybe Sunday afternoon after church.
I also must fit my ebay rear caliper, as things are rattling badly in that area. Just the hassle of priming the brakes, as I am man alone.
If I outsource that, then I will just let them do the thermostat as well.
Decisions, decisions...
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I think the most difficult decisions we face are deciding to let go and walk away from a losing proposition. Maybe it's time to lick your wounds and buy another scooter? You can always tinker with the bad luck one, or sell it, or...?
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I also must fit my ebay rear caliper, as things are rattling badly in that area. Just the hassle of priming the brakes, as I am man alone.
Tie a rope to the lever and you might be able to bleed it yourself.