KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => Downtown 300 => Topic started by: roxyflash on June 28, 2018, 02:30:48 PM
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Have to crack throttle to get scooter started.Where i bought scooter from said this is a normal condition with kymco.Its a 2012 with 2700 miles on it.
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Not notmal. Have your timing checked and throttle bodies cleaned.
Same thing happened to me plus other symptoms.
After the visit to the workshop. Good as new.
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Not normal. Like kneeslider said PLUS possibly initializing would maybe help. 2700 miles is not even "broken in" and won't be for another 5 grand or so. I have had two of these plus all the guys and gals who have DT300I scoots can help! You may have to get your hands a little smudged!
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It six years, it has done only 2700miles. It definitely would have been sitting in storage.
Best if you can also:
1) clean out the fuel tank
2) replace with fresh fuel
3) change your spark plug
4) dump in some sort of fuel system cleaner
Try that for a start.
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If it starts well when it's cold but struggles when it's warm, that's also a classic sign of valve clearances needing setting.
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My wife's Downtown (now mostly mine) has done this since new. It is hard to start whenever the outside temps are warm...not when the engine is warm. So this would negate tight valve clearance on a warm engine or dirty throttle body . I have to hold the throttle cracked open and crank until it starts. Next time it's warm out, I'll try to crank it as soon as the key is turned on before the fuel pressure builds up. I have a feeling that it is too rich and this may lean it out at first crank...I'll let you know how this turns out.
Gramps
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Don't forget stuck vent valves....I harp on that these days more'n initialize!
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Don't forget stuck vent valves....I harp on that these days more'n initialize!
Crossbolt. I don't know what you've been saying on these subjects, so bear with me.
By "initialize", do you mean turning the key on until the computer has had a chance to cycle through the initial speedo and tach sweep?
With the vent valve, are you talking about the cap vent which allows inlet venting? Where would excess pressure be vented in this CARB evap system (this is what I'm suspecting is happening in the high temps). I'm guessing that the gas vapours are building up too high and causing issues? Is there a faulty vent relief valve in this gas cap or elsewhere in this fuel/evap system?
I'm going to guess that it's a given, that in order for the engine to run properly, I shouldn't skip this "initialize" stage. So maybe I'll just leave the gas cap loose to vent fumes the day before I suspect it'll get warm at next start up?
Gramps
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Since you're experiencing difficult starting when it's warm, have you considered changing the CR7e plug to a CR8e instead?
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Since you're experiencing difficult starting when it's warm, have you considered changing the CR7e plug to a CR8e instead?
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No, I have not. How would that help me?
Rene
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I used to harp about initializing since it seemed to cope with surging idle speeds and stalling. Initialize sequence is key off, run-stop switch to run, throttle wide open, turn key on, ten seconds later throttle closed, key off. Why it would help with surging idle I have not a clue. What really caused that was the vent valve to the gas tank was stuck shut. The difference between fuel injected and carb is EFI surges and carbs just quit. When it finally sunk in what was happening I wanted to replace the valve which seems to be BURIED under the fuel tank. So I vented the gas cap. There is a thread with pictures.
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I used to harp about initializing since it seemed to cope with surging idle speeds and stalling. Initialize sequence is key off, run-stop switch to run, throttle wide open, turn key on, ten seconds later throttle closed, key off. Why it would help with surging idle I have not a clue. What really caused that was the vent valve to the gas tank was stuck shut. The difference between fuel injected and carb is EFI surges and carbs just quit. When it finally sunk in what was happening I wanted to replace the valve which seems to be BURIED under the fuel tank. So I vented the gas cap. There is a thread with pictures.
Thanks for those two tips.
On my efi Yamaha C3, we call it "resetting the idle". After the battery or ecm is disconnected and then reconnected, we have to switch the key on/off quickly, 3 times in a row. I didn't know it was called "initialize".
Also thanks for pointing out the vent location. I've been drilling out vent caps since the '70s..."When in doubt, drill it out!".
We french Canadians have a saying, "We're not going to bed so stupid tonight!".
Gramps
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Hers where im at set the vavles exhaust had no clearance changed spark plug used the ngk irridium which it all ready had was in good condition .Scooter ran good was hearing exhaust popping before thats gone.Fuel is good premium also put fuel injector cleaner started fine after working on it.Let scooter sit its 95 out lots of humidity went out for a test wouldnt fire cracked throttle got it started road it 10 minutes shut scooter off bought a sandwhich went out to start it was good.Im going to vent the fuel cap, when it didnt start i could smell fuel.Was looking for the vent vavle looks like you have to remove alot of the body to get a t it unless someone knows a trick to get at it.
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Like I said, Roxy, the actual valve is buried somewhere below the fuel tank behind and below the radiator. Much plastic must be removed to get to it. That's why I vented my gas cap.
I like that, "When in doubt, drill it out" from Canada! Nyuk, nyuk!
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Took gas cap apart drilled a number 50 hole init hard to believe theres that many parts to it lost a spring took alittle to find it but got it back together rode it 12 miles shut it off waited 10 minutes started back up ok ran it back home shut it off opened the shed started right backup.temp outside was 85 and dark out was in sun before when it didnt want to start time will tell.
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The warmer plug would help in starting.
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The warmer plug would help in starting.
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Thanks kneeslider. I agree with you that if my plug showed too many deposits, I could go to a hotter plug and this would keep the plug cleaner, thus giving a better spark. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a hotter plug than the NGK cr7e be a cr6e?
Gramps
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If I am not wrong, the higher the number the hotter the plug.
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On NGK plugs the lower number equals hotter plugs.
I'd want to try an Iridium spark plug before going to a hotter plug.
You do not change the heat range when using an Iridium plug, this was confirmed by an email to NGK. (some said because Iridium plugs are hotter you need to change your heat range. NGK said, "No, use same heat range number")
Stig
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Thanks Stig.
Champion plugs heat range numbers work the opposite of NGKs!
I checked my plug this morning and it has no deposits. This indicates it's not too cold.
The engine just so happened to fail last night when I went to park the scoot in for the night. It started OK and stalled out 30 seconds later. It wouldn't restart. WATCH THE PLUG CAP. IT CAN WORK ITS' WAY LOOSE!!! I went from underneath and snugged the plug cap back on tight and it started right back up.
Also, check that the plug is tight...mine was not tight at all!...it was not torqued properly right from factory. I only have 4000 kilometers on the bike so far.
I also vented the gas cap today...now my toy shed smells like it should...gassy! :)
Gramps
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Yea!
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Oh. Ok.
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Took scooter on two errands today 85 sunny and humid.Left scooter out in full sun i intialized the scooter then ran it.Starts right up idles better no problems starts right back up im happy.Thanks for all the help the starter likes it also. ;)
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Double yea!
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This forum is turning out quite well, thanks to you guys...MERCI !!!
Roxy, it's good to hear that you've got such a good outcome. I'm going to initialize mine today...can't hurt! Thanks for sharing your great outcome.
Crossbolt, how often does one need to initialize?...whenever you have starting or idling problems?...whenever the battery is disconnected?...so many questions, and yet, so much time! (I'm retired and have nothing BUT time!).
Nyuk,nyuk
Gramps
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The book sez any time either the TPS or the ISC are changed to initialize. Stig is the only one to replace anything like that for cause! This is one of those "no downside" procedures since it is (or should be) done at the factory and should not be required unless something fails or is replaced BUT if it is initialized, it just "resets" in exactly the same place. In other words, "It cain't hoyt!" Since I have vented the gas cap there has been no need to initialize. It was a grasp at a straw, anyway since NO ONE, no dealer tech nor Kymco USA had a clue what was causing the problem of surging idle, hard starting, no starting, high idle speeds and whatnot. The answer was developed HERE!
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I initialized mine today and went for a ride. I parked it in the heat and hot sun all afternoon. It started right up and ran well without a fuss. I did what I call a "shot gun effect". I did 3 known possible "fixes" all at once. Any one of those or all three worked and it doesn't really matter to me which one "fixed" it. It could be the plug cap was getting more and more loose as time went by...it could be that it needed to be initialized (I'm not totally convinced, but it can't hurt) or it could be the venting of the gas tank. I wouldn't make a very good scientist, as one shouldn't have more than one variable at a time!
No scientist,
Gramps
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Here's what I figure happens. The C.A.R.B. emission standards requires the manufactures to capture and burn all gas fumes. The fuel tank gets hot from the warm temps and direct sun, causing great amount of vapours. These vapours are held in the intake tubing and air cleaner box until engine start up. When you first crank over the engine, it doesn't get any fresh air (oxygen), only gas and gas fumes...can't fire until all vapours have gone through the engine. It would take over a minute of solid cranking before starting unless you evacuated the vapours by holding the throttle open and still, it would take some cranking. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it! My starter and battery are now happy and thus, I'm happy.
You know what they say...Happy bike = happy life!
Do I get the Nerd of The Year award?...or maybe the Turd of The Year award? ;D
Gramps
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Nerd? Nah! But some kind of wall hanger for persistence! Nothing more disturbing than all of a sudden an unexplained change in normal idle, starting, etc. Finding the fix is very daunting. The great thing about EFI in general is the consistency of all engine operations. It was once a "badge of honor" to have the starting procedure of a '49 Chevy down pat! Vary the procedure and it would NOT start! EFI got rid of that. I do not miss it at all. That vent valve in all modern IC engined machines is probably the cheapest, crummiest part among the thousands that make whatever it is. I think they all will stick because the are of cheap plastic. Anyway, you the man today!
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The same thing happens with cars my wife had a nissan xterra check engine light was on turned out was the vent vavle was a pita to chenge under the rear tire inner fender well i did get it to move was stuck but didnt want to remove the fender well so i replaced it was 85 dollars.
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My previous kymco would flood if I touched the accelerator when starting and my downtown is the same I never wind on the accelerator just hit the start button and brake lever. It starts on the second kick, I do have a iridium plug coming so that might help as well.
I’m leaving my bike at the airport for a month soon hopefully it will start when I get back.
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My previous kymco would flood if I touched the accelerator when starting and my downtown is the same I never wind on the accelerator just hit the start button and brake lever. It starts on the second kick, I do have a iridium plug coming so that might help as well.
I’m leaving my bike at the airport for a month soon hopefully it will start when I get back.
Just make sure your battery is charged all the way up before you leave it :) and be prepared to crank it over a bit to pull the fuel through again when you come back.