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General => Technical | How To => Topic started by: ccemn1 on February 03, 2019, 01:57:18 PM

Title: Fuel requirement?
Post by: ccemn1 on February 03, 2019, 01:57:18 PM
I have a 2018 X-Town 300 i. If I'm not mistaken, it says that it requires Hi Test gas.
With 2500 miles on the bike, I performed a little experiment. I ran a full tank of gas with high test and a full tank on regular. There was no pinging, or engine detonation, on the regular gas, usually the first sign of too low an octane fuel, but the really telling thing was, I got 65 MPG on regular gas, while only getting 59 MPG with the Hi Test. That is usually an indication of the engine is running at it's optimal performance.
I was very careful and accurate with both tests, making sure the volume of fuel was identical and the travels and usage were the same.
This would indicate to me, that it's perfectly safe, and even beneficial to use regular gas. Any opinions?
Title: Re: Fuel requirement?
Post by: Stig / Major Tom on February 03, 2019, 03:09:57 PM
What country?
What were the octane numbers of your fuels?
Can you quote the fuel section of the owner's manual for us?
Thanks
Stig
Title: Re: Fuel requirement?
Post by: Texxan on February 03, 2019, 09:10:13 PM
GT300i    unleaded RON 91 Octane.... "otherwise damage to spark plug or exhaust system"  (catalytic converter)
Title: Re: Fuel requirement?
Post by: john grinsel on February 03, 2019, 10:04:43 PM
see my answer in downtown 300-----Rox vs Ron.   N America reg ok in my book.  Kymco needs to update their books to match the market they are selling/ deliver in.
Title: Re: Fuel requirement?
Post by: stuo on February 03, 2019, 10:55:36 PM
I stupidly filled up my carbureted GV 250 with regular but it ran fine, no pinging. Regular unleaded here in California is 87 octane. Anyone else use regular?
Title: Re: Fuel requirement?
Post by: CROSSBOLT on February 03, 2019, 10:57:03 PM
If you are in the US 87 (R+M/2) octane rating works fine 85 octane above 3000 feet elevation. John Grinsel is right about Kymco USA needs to be more proactive in this and other things. Stig has asked the crucial question of where are you? I have used 87 regular in all my Kymcos with no problems, pinging or harm to iridium plugs.
Title: Re: Fuel requirement?
Post by: Tromper on February 03, 2019, 11:05:33 PM
As noted above you're fine.
The U.S. uses a different octane measuring system than the book notes.
The U.S. uses AKI.  The book notes RON.
http://www.pencilgeek.org/2009/05/octane-rating-conversions.html (http://www.pencilgeek.org/2009/05/octane-rating-conversions.html)

These scoots often run in countries where the "Regular" is lower octane than in the U.S. as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating)
Some of the countries with lower octane for "regular" may surprise you.  Notably Japan; although I gather that's changing or just changed or something.

If you are in the US 87 (R+M/2) octane rating works fine 85 octane above 3000 feet elevation. John Grinsel is right about Kymco USA needs to be more proactive in this and other things. Stig has asked the crucial question of where are you? I have used 87 regular in all my Kymcos with no problems, pinging or harm to iridium plugs.
Title: Re: Fuel requirement?
Post by: AlexisStarlyn on February 04, 2019, 08:03:36 PM
Does this mean that the X400i will run fine on regular?
The manual claims it needs “91 octane with no ethanol”
Hey if I can save money, and it doesn’t cause any issues, lemme know!
Though I’m at nearly 7000 ft now, not sure if that changes anything?


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Title: Re: Fuel requirement?
Post by: CROSSBOLT on February 04, 2019, 09:58:47 PM
Does this mean that the X400i will run fine on regular?
The manual claims it needs “91 octane with no ethanol”
Hey if I can save money, and it doesn’t cause any issues, lemme know!
Though I’m at nearly 7000 ft now, not sure if that changes anything?
7000 feet above mean sea level reduces the octane requirement. Actually, anything above 3000' msl you will find 85 octane works well. As far as non-ethanol is concerned it is always a good idea to use that IF YOU CAN FIND IT! There are websites to help find this and any marina will have it. For about 4 bucks a gallon!

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Title: Re: Fuel requirement?
Post by: AlexisStarlyn on February 04, 2019, 10:00:38 PM
4$?!
Lord 91 non ethanol is only like 2.80 here


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Title: Re: Fuel requirement?
Post by: CROSSBOLT on February 05, 2019, 12:46:40 AM
Pray tell, where is "here?" I used to live where a station sold non-ethanol for a reasonable price like that. Now I don't......
Title: Re: Fuel requirement?
Post by: AlexisStarlyn on February 05, 2019, 12:47:39 AM
Southern Colorado


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Title: Re: Fuel requirement?
Post by: Texxan on February 05, 2019, 01:29:21 AM
Carbureted bikes don't have catalytic converters
(hence no exhaust damage)
Recommending 91 RON is a CYA warranty issue for KYMCO
(reduces possibility of knock or ping damage)
KYMCO recommends certain gas so the engine will provide advertised HP/Torque ratings
You may never here a Fuel Injected Kymco ping or knock. The ECU may be reading the "spark" and backing off ignition timing
before it actually pre-detonates. I don't know if KYMCO has this programmed into the ECU or not. Somebody could scope and dyno this out?
I doubt if a CDI box(carbureted) has this much control.
When is the last time you heard a motorcycle engine knock or ping?
Title: Re: Fuel requirement?
Post by: Tromper on February 05, 2019, 01:34:13 AM
The whole ethanol question is another matter, particularly if you're not running the bike all the time.
Eth has some bad habits.   If there's a real chemist out there please correct me.  This is my understanding from reading stuff, mostly, but not solely online.
It separates after a few months since it's a mixture, not a compound.
It eats at natural stuff, notably rubber so if it sits in rubber the rubber will degrade faster than ya think.  Fuel lines are notable made of rubber as are many fuel system o rings (the main problem with storage.)
It combines readily with water so your fuel can be nasty & tough to fire with a layer of water/alcohol and degraded gasoline vs. fuel if it sits too long, especially in damp enviroments (think winter in England or the PNW).

Mostly I've found I can run the eth we mostly have around here OK but I try not to let it sit, & if I need something to sit I try to fill it with non-eth, which is rare and expensive around here.
The not sit thing is especially true for my carb'd bikes.

https://www.pure-gas.org/ (https://www.pure-gas.org/) is a handy link.  I keep hoping I can add to it but no love so far.
Title: Re: Fuel requirement?
Post by: AlexisStarlyn on February 05, 2019, 01:37:34 AM
I run it daily, and if not daily, within a day or two.
So not much for me to worry about?


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Title: Re: Fuel requirement?
Post by: Tromper on February 05, 2019, 02:28:47 AM
Wouldn't think so.
I don't ride one of my SYMs much in the winter and it holds up OK, the burgman has no issues and my old S200 didn't either so barring weirdness I suspect you're fine.
The wife's bike that goes down all winter usually gets non-eth.  I start it every week or two and let it run.
Title: Re: Fuel requirement?
Post by: CROSSBOLT on February 06, 2019, 01:58:28 AM
Southern Colorado


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Put the coffee on! I'll be there inna couple of days!
Title: Re: Fuel requirement?
Post by: AlexisStarlyn on February 06, 2019, 01:59:31 AM
Put the coffee on! I'll be there inna couple of days!
Folgers okay? Haha


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Title: Re: Fuel requirement?
Post by: CROSSBOLT on February 06, 2019, 02:04:28 AM
 ;D
Title: Re: Fuel requirement?
Post by: ccemn1 on February 07, 2019, 12:39:55 AM
I'm at sea level in Key West, USA.
Riding, wrenching & racing bikes for 50 years.
I pretty much determined on my own, from my own seat of the pants testing, and using three different grades of fuel, that regular was OK.
Everything in the US now has ethanol in it, except racing fuel.
Title: Re: Fuel requirement?
Post by: AlexisStarlyn on February 09, 2019, 07:46:47 AM
I'm at sea level in Key West, USA.
Riding, wrenching & racing bikes for 50 years.
I pretty much determined on my own, from my own seat of the pants testing, and using three different grades of fuel, that regular was OK.
Everything in the US now has ethanol in it, except racing fuel.
This is mostly true, but premium non ethanol is becoming increasingly more common


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Title: Re: Fuel requirement?
Post by: ccemn1 on February 09, 2019, 02:46:13 PM
There was a push for awhile here for non-ethanol gas, because it was destroying marine engines, but it was prohibitively expensive and now they have ethanol stabilizer fuel additives, which are supposed to eliminate the rubber degradation. 
Title: Re: Fuel requirement?
Post by: Stig / Major Tom on February 09, 2019, 07:18:55 PM
This is mostly true, but premium non ethanol is becoming increasingly more common


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Non eth is not sold in Ohio....and of course my owner's manual says not to use ethanol gas.
But there are no scooters blowing up in Ohio according to three dealers I've talked to.
Stig
Title: Re: Fuel requirement?
Post by: Tromper on February 09, 2019, 08:00:40 PM
Not sure where you're at cece, but you can check that.

https://www.pure-gas.org (https://www.pure-gas.org)
Stig, My bikes aren't blowing up either, but I did have to rebuild the carb on my k8 due to some decay. No issues in the 10k miles since.

I normally run whatever's available, Eth, since the non-eth is either far away from my normal range, hideously expensive, or both.
No idea where they are in relation to you, but Ohio does show a few hits if you get a hankering to see if there's a difference.
Caveat Emptor, Carpe Carp, Semper Fi etc. of course.
https://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=OH (https://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=OH)

Non eth is not sold in Ohio....and of course my owner's manual says not to use ethanol gas.
But there are no scooters blowing up in Ohio according to three dealers I've talked to.
Stig

There was a push for awhile here for non-ethanol gas, because it was destroying marine engines, but it was prohibitively expensive and now they have ethanol stabilizer fuel additives, which are supposed to eliminate the rubber degradation.
Title: Re: Fuel requirement?
Post by: AlexisStarlyn on February 10, 2019, 02:39:57 PM
Non eth is not sold in Ohio....and of course my owner's manual says not to use ethanol gas.
But there are no scooters blowing up in Ohio according to three dealers I've talked to.
Stig
I wouldn’t assume that the ethanol would severely damage it short term.
But long term, I try to put it in as little as possible.


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