KymcoForum.com
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kansas kymco on January 08, 2021, 09:19:07 AM
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Just curious if anyone on the forum has owned a Cheap Chinese scooter? How did it hold up? What failed on it that led to you getting rid of it? Like I said just curiosity. I see ad's all the time for low mileage scooters for $200. or best offer on Craigslist. Wolf disposable scooters seem to be the most prevalent.
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Looks to me like stuff original manufacturered by Znen (Zhongneng) and potentially Jiajue.
We don't get these in the UK anymore; they were finished off by Euro 4 emissions standards.
So I rode cheap Chinese scooters for most of my 20s that I bought off eBay with short MOTs in rough conditions. On the whole, I did fantastically well with them.
GY6 motors are fairly bombproof. Change the oil, set the tappets (they're almost always too tight from factory) and it's a very easy unit to work on, and cheap to replace bits if anything goes wrong.
Plastics are usually less hardy than Japanese equivalents, but if you don't fall off they are fine, and they are, again, cheap to replace.
Chinese scooters get a bad rep generally because people pay little for them, treat them badly, then are surprised when they fail.
If you buy one, look after it and keep on top of any problems, they're probably the cheapest motoring money can buy. Yeah, they aren't as good as a Japanese equivalent, we all know that. But are they half as good, when they are half the price? I don't believe the differential is the same.
My Chinese motors;
~ Baotian BT49QT-9 (Pulse Scout) - had three of these at various points. All under £100, all ran lovely, one of them I couriered with for a winter. Minimal problems, very cheap spares.
~ Lexmoto Gladiator (Sanben SB125T-23) - Bought for £180, put 10,000 miles on it in a year before the cam chain snapped on the dual carraigeway. Could have fixed it for £40, but lacked the knowhow at that point.
~ Zhongyu ZY125-2 - Looked like a Suzuki GS125, but with a CG125 clone engine. it was basic, but it soldiered on for a couple of years and got me through a very financially difficult point in my life. High miles, rattled like a paint can full of spanners, but never broke down.
~ Yiben YB49QT-11 - Little retro scooter. Again, bought for £100 and it was like a sewing machine. Shouldn't have sold it.
There's probably a handful more, but my memory is getting more ropy. Basically, look after them and they'll look after you.
Both the worst bikes I've ever owned have been 90's Yamahas.
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Odd, growing up I rode nothing but Yamaha's and they were bullet proof despite being severely abused. Mine were from the Seventies and eighties. In the nineties I rode Honda's and never had a issue. I went to BMW'S in the two thousand's and never had any issues but they did not get rode very much.
Forgot about the Kawasaki KLR 650 in 2009.
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Looks to me like stuff original manufacturered by Znen (Zhongneng) and potentially Jiajue.
We don't get these in the UK anymore; they were finished off by Euro 4 emissions standards.
So I rode cheap Chinese scooters for most of my 20s that I bought off eBay with short MOTs in rough conditions. On the whole, I did fantastically well with them.
GY6 motors are fairly bombproof. Change the oil, set the tappets (they're almost always too tight from factory) and it's a very easy unit to work on, and cheap to replace bits if anything goes wrong.
Plastics are usually less hardy than Japanese equivalents, but if you don't fall off they are fine, and they are, again, cheap to replace.
Chinese scooters get a bad rep generally because people pay little for them, treat them badly, then are surprised when they fail.
If you buy one, look after it and keep on top of any problems, they're probably the cheapest motoring money can buy. Yeah, they aren't as good as a Japanese equivalent, we all know that. But are they half as good, when they are half the price? I don't believe the differential is the same.
My Chinese motors;
~ Baotian BT49QT-9 (Pulse Scout) - had three of these at various points. All under £100, all ran lovely, one of them I couriered with for a winter. Minimal problems, very cheap spares.
~ Lexmoto Gladiator (Sanben SB125T-23) - Bought for £180, put 10,000 miles on it in a year before the cam chain snapped on the dual carraigeway. Could have fixed it for £40, but lacked the knowhow at that point.
~ Zhongyu ZY125-2 - Looked like a Suzuki GS125, but with a CG125 clone engine. it was basic, but it soldiered on for a couple of years and got me through a very financially difficult point in my life. High miles, rattled like a paint can full of spanners, but never broke down.
~ Yiben YB49QT-11 - Little retro scooter. Again, bought for £100 and it was like a sewing machine. Shouldn't have sold it.
There's probably a handful more, but my memory is getting more ropy. Basically, look after them and they'll look after you.
Both the worst bikes I've ever owned have been 90's Yamahas.
I would say your very knowledgeable on Chinese scooters. Your probably right on the cause for the high failure rate along with non-use gummed up carburetors. The ones I see on Craigslist usually only have a couple hundred miles on them and don't run.
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One ad in the Tulsa craigslist was for two scooters that had less then 300 miles on them that he could not get to start after sitting through the winter. He stated that the selling dealer refused to work on them and he wanted to dump them and get ones he could get serviced.
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Glad Viper replied KK as I knew he was the closest you can get to an expert on a wide variety of cheap Chinese machinery! With your tech-savvy nature, I'd say the two scooters for $300 should prove a great winter project for you?...
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Bought on 2018 Solifer Retro (basic Baotian 50 cc) from year 2012, with 4490 km in it. Sold year later with 10 000 km when did not start anymore, my lucky guess is valve no open anymore. 410 € - 120 € = 290 € in a year. No service, nothing during that, just gasoline as long as it moves.
Was it worth it? No, lack of quality always around, the feeling this will explode in any minute. Not worth 290.- for the year ride. When I noticed, that this will no last, I made the decision only ride, its not worth to put money for the service. As 99% everybody else.
No chinese anymore, Taiwan will do, and does perfectly 8) now 17300 km without need valve checking, fires up and runs as a moped must.
EDIT: almost forgot. When it was rain, or water on the road, the engine cutted, dunno was it electric like spark or what. Same after gently wash everytime. Cutted but not totally stopped "moving" ;D
Tires and variator and belt were original, 7 years and 10 000 km, that was unusual.
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if you want a really in depth look at the typical cheap Chinese scooter, a 50cc Tao Tao...take a look at Garret Seesing's youtube channel where he does a 10 part series called 'Living with a Tao Tao'. He's a (motorcycle or auto?) tech who orders a cheap scoot, sets it up and proceeds to use it as his only vehicle, commuting to work on it.
We get to see the early failures and what he does to fix. It's a very good watch. It is based on the question of whether the scoots themselves are bad or if it's more the owners of cheap scoots who are bad..
https://youtu.be/9dNPnKrH-a4
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If you have really no place to go or to be there on time.... and know source for parts and are set up to work on it . They are pretty good deal. Just throw them away when fixing costs more than they are worth.
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Glad Viper replied KK as I knew he was the closest you can get to an expert on a wide variety of cheap Chinese machinery! With your tech-savvy nature, I'd say the two scooters for $300 should prove a great winter project for you?...
I think people misunderstood my post I have no desire to tackle cheap Chinese scooters repair. I was simply curious about what fails and when after purchase. I do scan Craigslist for Kymco's and see the cheap low milage Chinese scooters often. It was simply a mater of curiosity.
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if you want a really in depth look at the typical cheap Chinese scooter, a 50cc Tao Tao...take a look at Garret Seesing's youtube channel where he does a 10 part series called 'Living with a Tao Tao'. He's a (motorcycle or auto?) tech who orders a cheap scoot, sets it up and proceeds to use it as his only vehicle, commuting to work on it.
We get to see the early failures and what he does to fix. It's a very good watch. It is based on the question of whether the scoots themselves are bad or if it's more the owners of cheap scoots who are bad..
https://youtu.be/9dNPnKrH-a4
Thanks Iahawk, I will watch it, was curious why they fail and what fails on them. That's exactly what I was asking about.
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If you have really no place to go or to be there on time.... and know source for parts and are set up to work on it . They are pretty good deal. Just throw them away when fixing costs more than they are worth.
John no desire to tackle something that has limited parts availability and no resell value. Like I told Neil it's more out of curiosity sense you see so many advertised.
I used the Tulsa listing as a example of what I see listed.
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Bought on 2018 Solifer Retro (basic Baotian 50 cc) from year 2012, with 4490 km in it. Sold year later with 10 000 km when did not start anymore, my lucky guess is valve no open anymore. 410 € - 120 € = 290 € in a year. No service, nothing during that, just gasoline as long as it moves.
Was it worth it? No, lack of quality always around, the feeling this will explode in any minute. Not worth 290.- for the year ride. When I noticed, that this will no last, I made the decision only ride, its not worth to put money for the service. As 99% everybody else.
No chinese anymore, Taiwan will do, and does perfectly 8) now 17300 km without need valve checking, fires up and runs as moped must.
Thanks for the first hand knowledge.
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I think people misunderstood my post I have no desire to tackle cheap Chinese scooters repair. I was simply curious about what fails and when after purchase. I do scan Craigslist for Kymco's and see the cheap low milage Chinese scooters often. It was simply a mater of curiosity.
My mistake! Thought you'd got too much time on your hands and fancied the automotive equivalent of a game of Russian roulette ;D
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My mistake! Thought you'd got too much time on your hands and fancied the automotive equivalent of a game of Russian roulette ;D
The lack of parts availability and no resell value precludes any desire to tackle such a project. Just no R.O.I.
It might be a good project for a young person with limited funds for cheap transportation.
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I always walked over and checked the odo's on scooters when visiting Florida these past 10 years....and talked to the owners if they were around.
Most of them were Chinese scooters....and most had a lot of miles on them. Plastics were wicked faded from the sun - but they were getting plenty of use as daily transportation. There was one nearby shop who sold and serviced these scoots.
Always envied these folks - to live where all you need is one of these things and a poncho so your work clothes stay dry - 365 days!
Stig
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Stig I haven't watched the video IAHAWK sent me yet. That's why I started this thread to find out if the high rate of failure was due to owner neglect or parts breaking. We all know the plastic on cheap scooters is garbage.
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my GF has a cheap, we don't know who the manufacturer is, Chinese scooter, 49cc, it ran good, till it didn't, she thinks it just needs a carb..... I think it needs a motor, she had the thing pegged all the time, I clocked her almost 60mph, down a local hill (I rode it once down that hill @ 35 and felt sketchy)
I would prefer she take it to the scrapyard, and get a name brand scooter that has a dealer/parts network, a little bit bigger, as big as a 250
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My first scooter ever was a Lifan LF50QT-9. I installed a 72cc kit on it, and it ran fine. The belt wore fairly quickly and I replaced it with a better belt. I only had it for a few months before I upgraded it to a Bet&Win 250, but I sure wouldn't mind having a cheap beater in my garage again. It was my first experience to do my own mechanical work; I learned a lot and continue to learn and do what I can myself owing to that experience.
I actually argue that parts availability for Chinese scooters is superior, because I can order pretty much anything and everything I need online, for a relatively low cost.
I would not disrespect their reliability either. I have seen these things at work in the motherland, and what the people put these machines through on a daily basis as a matter of necessity will blow your mind.
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My first scooter ever was a Lifan LF50QT-9. I installed a 72cc kit on it, and it ran fine. The belt wore fairly quickly and I replaced it with a better belt. I only had it for a few months before I upgraded it to a Bet&Win 250, but I sure wouldn't mind having a cheap beater in my garage again. It was my first experience to do my own mechanical work; I learned a lot and continue to learn and do what I can myself owing to that experience.
I actually argue that parts availability for Chinese scooters is superior, because I can order pretty much anything and everything I need online, for a relatively low cost.
I would not disrespect their reliability either. I have seen these things at work in the motherland, and what the people put these machines through on a daily basis as a matter of necessity will blow your mind.
Thanks for your input. Just curious what area do you live you don't have to be specific if you don't want to. Like I said earlier just trying to figure out the early demise of so many of these scooters with low miles.
GTCKAZ if you look on craigslist you can find these things with very few miles for next to nothing if you want a project. The sad part is a lot don't have titles which makes them useless in a state that requires them.
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Canada west coast here. We really don't have a lot of road-legal choices due to what I presume are an abundance of hoops to jump and expenses for getting approval from Transport Canada. I see tons of Chinese vehicles, mostly mini-bikes, being sold in the US that I would love to be able to have here.
The Lifan was CAD$1000 brand-new when I bought it 11 years ago. I am always looking on Craigslist, and it's fairly rare to find anything with papers for under $1000 these days. Besides, I am married now so the Mrs doesn't like things that divert time and money away from her ::)
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Canada west coast here. We really don't have a lot of road-legal choices due to what I presume are an abundance of hoops to jump and expenses for getting approval from Transport Canada. I see tons of Chinese vehicles, mostly mini-bikes, being sold in the US that I would love to be able to have here.
The Lifan was CAD$1000 brand-new when I bought it 11 years ago. I am always looking on Craigslist, and it's fairly rare to find anything with papers for under $1000 these days. Besides, I am married now so the Mrs doesn't like things that divert time and money away from her ::)
You see brand new cheep scooters for around 1k around here. In fact there's a dealer in Ceder Falls Iowa that even advertising left over 2020 Kymco Agility 50's for $1295. don't know what fee's are added on. Seen left over new cheap Chinese 50's scooters for $599.as well. I run across 1 and 2 year old scooters (usually not running) for $100-$200 range in Craigslist. Since the price is so low there is no money in used Chinese scooters, probably spend more on fuel to go get them then the cost of the scooter. LOL
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I've had several Chinese scooters, and enjoyed living with them. They may not be "leading edge" tech, and most are kind of ugly, but they're like garden tractors for reliability. Their main advantage is that parts are really cheap and always available. You can get any part for any GY6 scooter, no matter what the brand or how old it is. My present scoot is a Kymco 100cc which is really rare and has a Taiwan engine, not Chinese. To be honest, it's a nice machine but the scary part of owning it is there's no parts availability. If I run into trouble, I'll likely ditch the Kymco engine and replace it with a Chinese motor from Amazon since Kymcos share the same installation hard-points as standard Chinese scooters, and all the peripherals are interchangeable.
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The lack of parts availability and no resell value precludes any desire to tackle such a project. Just no R.O.I.
It might be a good project for a young person with limited funds for cheap transportation.
I think this might the difference between the US and the UK - a lot of Chinese stuff is really well catered for spare parts over here.
They are usually fitted with diaphragm carbs and vacuum fuel systems so are prone to gumming up when parked up for too long.
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They are usually fitted with diaphragm carbs and vacuum fuel systems so are prone to gumming up when parked up for too long.
The standard Chinese Keihin-type diaphram carb is surprisingly durable and easy to maintain. No gaskets to replace. All that's really needed in the way of preventative maintenance is a $3 inline fuel filter, and they can sit for months and still fire on the first kick. All Chinese scoots have one-piece poly fuel tanks (no fuel pump!) which last forever - light years ahead of older Yamahas with those dreaded steel gas tanks that rust out!
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reading this thread over, again, got me thinking about that cheap Tao Tao youtube vid. As of the latest video the scooter has 2400KM on it and has needed $122 in parts and if you had to pay a motorcycle mechanic to do all the work would cost an additonal $883 in labor for a total of $1006 US dollars!
It is a disaster...during assembly steering head bearings were loose, valve lash was way off, it has had welds break on the exhaust (muffler fell off), factory belt shredded, front brake line rubbed and got a hole in it, steering head bearings have had to be re tightened, a bulb wasn't connected properly, it runs way lean, carb bowl is not even designed to be removed (has security screws on it)..
So the service cost would have exceeded the purchase price in the first 2400KM! I think we see why there are so many non running Chinese scoots for a few hundred on Craigslist. I'm guessing most owners of a sub $1000 mail order scoot don't have much in the way of mechanical skills. Even if they do it is a terrible investment.
Not saying all cheap Chinese scoots are bad...but this particular example of a Tao Tao sure is.
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Recall my post on the Vespa clone. $1200 all-in delivered to his driveway. 150CC's, and running reliably for a few years now. He loved it.
Stig
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Recall my post on the Vespa clone. $1200 all-in delivered to his driveway. 150CC's, and running reliably for a few years now. He loved it.
Stig
Which Chinese mfg makes it?
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reading this thread over, again, got me thinking about that cheap Tao Tao youtube vid. As of the latest video the scooter has 2400KM on it and has needed $122 in parts and if you had to pay a motorcycle mechanic to do all the work would cost an additonal $883 in labor for a total of $1006 US dollars!
It is a disaster...during assembly steering head bearings were loose, valve lash was way off, it has had welds break on the exhaust (muffler fell off), factory belt shredded, front brake line rubbed and got a hole in it, steering head bearings have had to be re tightened, a bulb wasn't connected properly, it runs way lean, carb bowl is not even designed to be removed (has security screws on it)..
So the service cost would have exceeded the purchase price in the first 2400KM! I think we see why there are so many non running Chinese scoots for a few hundred on Craigslist. I'm guessing most owners of a sub $1000 mail order scoot don't have much in the way of mechanical skills. Even if they do it is a terrible investment.
Not saying all cheap Chinese scoots are bad...but this particular example of a Tao Tao sure is.
Is that the Scooter 911 guy...11 part series? I just finished watching yesterday. REALLY good info!
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Is that the Scooter 911 guy...11 part series? I just finished watching yesterday. REALLY good info!
yes, that's him! He has some great content. Is that silly theme song "living with a tao tao' stuck in your head, too?
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! DON"T make me relive the theme song!!!
It's a really good series of vids to watch, tho.
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Which Chinese mfg makes it?
They're not Chinese. Clone Vespas are from Vietnam. Chinese scoots are the GY6 or QMB engines.
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That's not true, the bike Stig was talking about is a Wangye, which is very much mainland China.