KymcoForum.com
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Stig / Major Tom on September 21, 2021, 07:46:04 PM
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Talking autos here....
Never received the call back from our local Toyota dealer yesterday with price request for full brake service on wife's Scion.
Therefore, dropped the car at a local brake pro shop who has superb customer feedback, on-line and by word of mouth (my noisy SIL & BIL)
They've given me good service on my 2006 Chevy F-150 in the past.
Shop called with a price of $682: 4 new rotors, front & rear pads, hardware kits, brake fluid exchange, oil and filter change. I told them to go ahead.
Dealer just called with price of $1467 + tax, for the same service. ("$852+tx for the rotors, pads and hardware"....)
Plus, this tells me that dealer reports of "plenty of brake pad remaining" --- was not true. Supposedly they were checking at each oil change.
Brake shop reported we were down to nearly metal/metal on rears, 10% on fronts.
Crazy....
Stig
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While I'm a big proponent of supporting my local motorcycle dealer because of his honesty and exceptional service. I'm not so inclined to support the local Ford GM Stellantis/Chrysler dealer. They have flat out lied to me and screwed me over more then once, (I know fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.).
I use a local independent mechanic shop that I trust completely. He won't do work not needed and will let me know if something needs attention. I've used this guy for 30 years. I made a joke (which is actually not a joke) I will have to purchase a new truck when he retires.
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While I'm a big proponent of supporting my local motorcycle dealer because of his honesty and exceptional service. I'm not so inclined to support the local Ford GM Stellantis/Chrysler dealer. They have flat out lied to me and screwed me over more then once, (I know fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.).
I use a local independent mechanic shop that I trust completely. He won't do work not needed and will let me know if something needs attention. I've used this guy for 30 years. I made a joke (which is actually not a joke) I will have to purchase a new truck when he retires.
You both have made the point of my sour attitude concerning dealers and their techs.
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It's not just your side of the pond guys. My wife's Range Rover has only been into a Land Rover Dealership once (it was 5 years old when we got it) and the attitude was so condescending I vowed there and then they would get no more of my £££s.
We always use a local(ish) workshop who specialise in Land Rovers and what Baz the owner doesn't know about Range Rovers isn't worth knowing; his work is top class and consistently half the price I'd pay at the dealership.
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Well, I do understand....that someone has to pay for this deluxe facility. (Jeff owns a slew of dealerships ....)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Wb8Bvwd0/jeff2.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/xT8RXvsv/jeff3.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/QCycQz6p/jeff1.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/d1075BZn/jeff7.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/GmVbynkc/jeff.jpg)
They are polite, and their covid procedures are excellent....and not a bad place to read a book on a winter's snowy day.....but....the other dealership we purchased new from (30 miles distant) has free deli sandwiches and Euro coffee blends and you can watch international flights landing.
(Shop just phoned, "Your tank is ready!"....Guys have a sense of humor, and they do good work. Do not take appointments - but almost never keep your car overnight.)
Stig
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You both have made the point of my sour attitude concerning dealers and their techs.
Karl I don't hate all dealerships, just the ones that flat out lie to me. Like I said earlier very pleased with my motorcycle /Kymco dealer.
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Stig- ((someone has to pay for this) Most car manufacturers require a sparkling new dealership to be able to be a part of their franchise.
Like you I don't wish to pay for the sparkling new building's. The other thing that tee's me off is the additional fees when you purchase. Encountered this at a. Motorcycle dealer in North Iowa (they were also a HD dealer) this summer when I bought a GV. Charged me a. $95 fee for making sure it had oil and tires were aired up, didn't even change the oil. Then a bogus $295. title fee.
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I loath my local GM dealer so much I've said I would drive a worn out POS before I would spend a dime with them. Then they have the audacity to advertise they treat you like family ( I sure as hell don't want to be a part of their disfuntional family).
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I have a very reliable independent auto repair, yesterday..... in the drive-up line at DD, my foot went suddenly to the floor and I started rolling forward. instead of continuing on to the jobsite, I limped home with no brakes (had enough it would hold a stop, but I was downshifting on downhills) when I got home, I called my mechanic, told him what was up, (brakefluid everywhere sprayed behind the left rear wheel) He picked my truck up this morning, I expect to see it back by the end of the day, with a very modest invoice
my bikes go to the dealer, I have a good relationship there too, probably better, 30day terms, and they put me ahead of other customers. but, as a land use consultant, I have saved the owner many $$$,$$$
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I have had good luck with the local National Tire and battery. The few I have used at other locations have been good as well.
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my first job out of college was selling....cars....at a big, full line GM / Hyundai store. Of course I used their shop when I worked there but after I left (almost 25 years ago) I started going to a local shop that was owned by a former top notch tech at the dealership. It seems all the best techs eventually left and opened their own shops.
My guy is honest, does great work and routinely tells me I don't need whatever repair / maintenance I think I need! I trust him completely and his bill is significantly less than the dealer would be charging. So for anything other than warranty work...it's the independent shop.
The problem with the dealer service dept back then (and likely still a problem, now) was that the service advisors were on commission and were forced to average a certain $ on their bills...which results in needless upsells to gullible little old ladies, etc.
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my first job out of college was selling....cars....at a big, full line GM / Hyundai store. Of course I used their shop when I worked there but after I left (almost 25 years ago) I started going to a local shop that was owned by a former top notch tech at the dealership. It seems all the best techs eventually left and opened their own shops.
My guy is honest, does great work and routinely tells me I don't need whatever repair / maintenance I think I need! I trust him completely and his bill is significantly less than the dealer would be charging. So for anything other than warranty work...it's the independent shop.
The problem with the dealer service dept back then (and likely still a problem, now) was that the service advisors were on commission and were forced to average a certain $ on their bills...which results in needless upsells to gullible little old ladies, etc.
I am pretty intolerant of cocky, know-it-all mechs, techs who have proven they are mostly hot air arrogance and ignorant. That goes for dealers/owners with attitudes. Now, there are good, no nonsense dealers and techs/ mechs but as valuable as they are seem rare and of limited spawn. Nobody knows all the answers nor is always right. But there is a way to do it that is right and fair which will bring people pounding on the door to fix their stuff. There is a way to make things right when things go wrong. Some get this and most don't.
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Springfield Mass, 1971, VW dealership (remember when they were VW-only dealers - and all looked the same - mechs wore blue smocks, waiting room was glassed in so you could watch - full tune-ups w/new condenser/points/plugs, timing and valves adjusted for $35?
I spent about an hour out in the lot pouring over which new navy blue beetle I was going to buy. Yeah, they were exactly the same cars - but I was checking the engine compartments, seat stitching, pebbles in the tires, etc., etc. "Still less than $2,000!" said the billboards
$1999.... & $2120 OTD.
Wish I'd bought 4 of them!
There used to be an independent VW shop in pretty much every town of any size. All they worked on were VW's, maybe a Porsche and the odd LandRover.
Here, down the street it was the "Bug Hut"....he did my Jetta, Beetles and Vanagons for decades. I'd drop off the car, walk to work, pick it up end of work day. We argued about what I needed - they said I was too picky...I don't need that! He retired.
So, we went Japanese - because we still couldn't afford to keep an American car running.
Stig
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my older brother was an independent foreign car mechanic, mostly VWs , I always worked on my own bug in his shop and if I was lucky under his watchful eye. One of the bugs I had, had an endplay issue on the crank, had a knock at idle that went away with rpm. in cold winter weather, it would occasionally tear the rear main seal and dump all my oil
I got so I could pull the motor, remove the clutch & flywheel, replace the seal, put it all back together on the side of the road in less than an hour, all by myself, (did it once by moonlite in a snowbank) another time, it happened just as I was pulling into his shop, the 2 of us had it R&R in just over 10 minutes, we always thought about competing in a VW engine R&R comp
then finally I got smart and had the crankcase line bored and oversize bearings
my brother also used to be a crew chief for a NASCAR ministock driver, and I helped out on his pit
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I have one in progress right now.... will post here or by itself when done....
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Neighbor/friend has a 2014 Honda Rancher 4x4 model TRX420-FM2 with a cooling fan problem. Spent 6 weeks at the local Honda shop to repair inoperative fan. EFI workhorse used on an extensive farm starts, idles, runs well, all systems operational except cooling fan. First sign of problem was over temp light and electric steering boost quit (normal for overheating).
Dealer installed O^2 sensor and claimed machine repaired. It was not as it still would illuminate high temp light, power steering light, ps would quit and the fan would not come on. This friend was desparate to use this machine and wanted it either repaired or a fan switch jury rigged so he could actually use the machine. I obliged and inspected the rig for fan motor ability to run, location of temp sensor, location of an EMI filter and location of a fan control unit.
Fan was proved to operate by jumper wires direct to battery. Unable to locate any of the other units thereby unable to continue troubleshoot. Rigged a fused line direct from battery with switch on handle bar.
Service manuals available on line for purchase. Wiring diagram found on line for similar model confirms temp sensor and fan control unit but no identifiable EMI unit (may either be in fan conrol unit or not used).
I assume that a major Honda dealer would have both a relevant service manual and a wiring diagram for every model of Honda product for the last ten years. I also would assume a major Honda dealer would have at least a competent tech/service manager capable of looking for possible causes of an inoperative fan on a very popular four-wheeler model. My assumptions would be incorrect in this case.
This is the kind of dealer incompetence that angers me to no end plus this same dealer blew smoke at my friend about an O^2 sensor which had nothing to do with an otherwise fully operational machine just to cover the thing being in his shop for 6 weeks. This is the only dealer within 40 miles. Others exist at greater distances. This dealer is where the machine was purchased new.
Now, tell me there is no problem.
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Here the same drama with our so competent techs.
For that and other reasons I prefer to repair my 2 and 4 wheel rides myself.
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?
I spent about an hour out in the lot pouring over which new navy blue beetle I was going to buy. Yeah, they were exactly the same cars -
I had a '68 sky blue beetle, one time shortly after I bought it, I went shopping at a plaza, I came out,...... I freaked out when the key wouldn't turn in the ignition , then realized I was in the wrong car, now, trying to remember where I parked, started visiting every one of over a dozen in the lot before I found mine
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Here the same drama with our so competent techs.
For that and other reasons I prefer to repair my 2 and 4 wheel rides myself.
Yup. You, me, too!
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Update:
Recently went to the local shop where my friend received poor tech service and nicely, respectfully and politely requested to see the service manual for his model of four-wheeler. The service manager graciously took me to a very large wall of service manuals and eventually found the one that covered his model and several similar models for 2014. There was very little organization of over 200 books.
That book had color wiring diagrams, a complete sequential test procedure for my friend's EXACT PROBLEM and how to repair it! You know full well that well used service books get grubby with use. Well, this one was very CLEAN with no rumpled pages.
All of this tells me there is a way bigger problem at that dealer than just a lazy tech.
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Update:
Recently went to the local shop where my friend received poor tech service and nicely, respectfully and politely requested to see the service manual for his model of four-wheeler. The service manager graciously took me to a very large wall of service manuals and eventually found the one that covered his model and several similar models for 2014. There was very little organization of over 200 books.
That book had color wiring diagrams, a complete sequential test procedure for my friend's EXACT PROBLEM and how to repair it! You know full well that well used service books get grubby with use. Well, this one was very CLEAN with no rumpled pages.
All of this tells me there is a way bigger problem at that dealer than just a lazy tech.
This stuff goes on in every walk of life.
I used to observe co-workers hanging drywall by shooting a couple of screws between the two sheets of drywall. Boss never inspected , but always complimented Itchy & Scratchy on how quickly they could throw up a wall.
That kinda stuff was the reason why I preferred to work alone for 25 yrs, and why I carried the reputation of being "too slow" for the same period.
Stig
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the service manager at my local dealership knows that I am on the internet forums for the bike models that I have, when I drop one off for other than routine service, they always ask me if I know of anything that may help with diagnosis and repair.
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the service manager at my local dealership knows that I am on the internet forums for the bike models that I have, when I drop one off for other than routine service, they always ask me if I know of anything that may help with diagnosis and repair.
My friend is a farmer-type from around here and is not real electrically astute. I offered to help when he voiced difficulty in rigging a switch to turn on the fan. He is not in the category you describe.