KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => People GT 300i => Topic started by: agilebda on October 29, 2021, 12:58:57 AM
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Hey guys. Where would you check for voltage issues? Brake lights are dim, headlight is fine, engine wouldnt crank over or even turn. Not enough amperage. I have tried two brand new batteries and still the same issue. Connections look good, ground and positive. Let me give you a little history on what happened recently: I was riding through town, stopped in a store for 10 mins, jumped back on bike and wouldnt crank. Immediately thought dead battery. Removed the battery and it was too hot to touch. Battery was puffed and expanded so I thought the voltage regulator needed replacing, which I gladly did. Purchased new battery, and she still wouldnt crank over. (Actually she started once when i installed the 1st new batt), the she wont roll again. Brake light is dim, headlight is fine, indicators are weak, pull the brake lever to hit the starter and the entire dash lights up with all indicators and accessories illuminated on the display. The only other thing I can think of is the little circular starter relay that the positive wire and negative wire attach to before going to the starter motor. What are your thoughts?
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You've replaced the battery and voltage regulator which should have ruled out any electrical power problems. The first incident when the battery swelled up sounds like it shorted out internally and gassed for whatever reason. Does the bike turn over when you press the start button?
Do you have a voltmeter or multimeter? What is the resting voltage of the battery (should be at least 12.6V) and under load (e.g. headlights on). Then when it can run, check the voltage again (about 14-14.5 volts).
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@agilebda, a new battery does not mean neccessarely it's a functional battery. Pls try those steps:
- press brake levers, brake light shows?
- charge new battery or take jumpstart cables/ car
- attach its minus cable to your scoots motor block
- touch with its plus cable scoots starter plus on top...does it crank ?
If cranks either your starter solenoid or cabling between solenoid and starter is failing
NO cranking, your starter motor is rotten
- there is a fat ground cable close to your starter motor, attached with a 8mm bolt, check whether this is still in place and not corroded off.
Pls give a feedback.
This cable looks suspiciousely like the ground to motor casing to me.
There is somewhere close to the starter motor a thread of 6mm where it should belong to.
Or just fix it somehow to the motor casing and try to start.
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You've replaced the battery and voltage regulator which should have ruled out any electrical power problems. The first incident when the battery swelled up sounds like it shorted out internally and gassed for whatever reason. Does the bike turn over when you press the start button?
Do you have a voltmeter or multimeter? What is the resting voltage of the battery (should be at least 12.6V) and under load (e.g. headlights on). Then when it can run, check the voltage again (about 14-14.5 volts).
Thanks Mousejunk. I installed a new batt and the bike started once. Shut it down after a few mins and she wouldn't turn over again due to what it appears to be weak voltage. I will test voltage and check wiring today. Could be two new batteries that were dead but I can be wrong. I hit the starter and have my hand on the starter relay, and I feel the click like a plunger. I will check the negative and positive leads the entire way through. I will keep you all informed. Thanks for the quick replies.
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Thanks Mousejunk. I installed a new batt and the bike started once. Shut it down after a few mins and she wouldn't turn over again due to what it appears to be weak voltage. I will test voltage and check wiring today. Could be two new batteries that were dead but I can be wrong. I hit the starter and have my hand on the starter relay, and I feel the click like a plunger. I will check the negative and positive leads the entire way through. I will keep you all informed. Thanks for the quick replies.
Check what I found today guys. Could be the intermittent start issue.?
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Check what I found today guys. Could be the intermittent start issue.?
That could be part of it!
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Thanks Crossbolt. I realized that new batteries have to be charged after the acid is installed. I think that my automotive 110v charger has an issue as well. I should have posted this vid on my very 1st post.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uwdjR9x7Z7BaT4wsfzTMB8NPe3eJwsLc/view?usp=drivesdk
Talking a lunch break and will come back to the project later.
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So I checked the wiring and sll looks good instead of this one wire which is grounded to the frame next to the coil labeled KYMCO D403. The other end of this cable had a connector which looks like it connects to the battery. It was connected to nothing at all.
So this is how my stuff is wired up for some reason....Negative from battery is grounded to a bolt on the engine casing. The positive lead goes from battery to relay to the starter motor. Where does this D403 wire with the battery fitting lead go to?? This is what stomps me.
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Thanks Mousejunk. I installed a new batt and the bike started once. Shut it down after a few mins and she wouldn't turn over again due to what it appears to be weak voltage. I will test voltage and check wiring today. Could be two new batteries that were dead but I can be wrong. I hit the starter and have my hand on the starter relay, and I feel the click like a plunger. I will check the negative and positive leads the entire way through. I will keep you all informed. Thanks for the quick replies.
So the click means the solenoid is engaging but the lack of turning over means the starter motor isn't turning over. The pic above with the rust is a huge sign that the starter motor connection is bad. Easy solution is just to clean it and reattach.
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So I checked the wiring and sll looks good instead of this one wire which is grounded to the frame next to the coil labeled KYMCO D403. The other end of this cable had a connector which looks like it connects to the battery. It was connected to nothing at all.
So this is how my stuff is wired up for some reason....Negative from battery is grounded to a bolt on the engine casing. The positive lead goes from battery to relay to the starter motor. Where does this D403 wire with the battery fitting lead go to?? This is what stomps me.
The usual route for battery negative is:
1. Battery - to frame gound point (rusty post and nuts in your picture)
2. Starter ground to rust nuts in picture (or engine case ground to rust nuts)
Usual Battery + route:
1. Battery+ to start relay heavy post (fat red wire) (skinny red wire off that same post to fuse box).
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Hello Guys, check over everything today. My cables negative and positive have good continuity throughout. I tested the started with jumper cables to my truck battery and works fine.
Funny how I press the brakes and the dash lights up without pressing the starter button. Could there be something around the brake levers that's causing the voltage drop? I ordered the batteries and they came by air. Could that have anything to do with anything? Added battery acid to the battery per the instructions, left it for 1hour, then charged it for an hour.
What else can I check on this scoot?
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@agilebda, a new battery does not mean neccessarely it's a functional battery. Pls try those steps:
- press brake levers, brake light shows?
- charge new battery or take jumpstart cables/ car
- attach its minus cable to your scoots motor block
- touch with its plus cable scoots starter plus on top...does it crank ?
If cranks either your starter solenoid or cabling between solenoid and starter is failing
NO cranking, your starter motor is rotten
- there is a fat ground cable close to your starter motor, attached with a 8mm bolt, check whether this is still in place and not corroded off.
Pls give a feedback.
Hello. Tried all of this. Ground is not corroded off. Brake lights come on but very dim. I'm inclined to thing I have 2 flat batteries that arrived. Dead cells. Headlights are fine. When the brake levers pressed all goes dim. Everything goes dim.
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The usual route for battery negative is:
1. Battery - to frame gound point (rusty post and nuts in your picture)
2. Starter ground to rust nuts in picture (or engine case ground to rust nuts)
Usual Battery + route:
1. Battery+ to start relay heavy post (fat red wire) (skinny red wire off that same post to fuse box).
Thanks Karl, I will check that all out.
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Thanks for all your help guys. I found the silly little culprit. It was a sticky faulty start switch. Swapped it out, charged the battery again and she's been running great all day. Once again thanks to all who shared their input.
Toni
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Great to hear it works👍👍👍
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Not quite in the clear yet guys. Something keeps draining batteries dead. In the morning it's okay just idle, but when I ride, the battery gets lower and lower voltage drop. I know this cause when riding, the indicator symbol and high beam symbol light up. Shut the bike down and then she ain't got no cranking amps.
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DC ammeter in the main circuit. Not moving is simple:
1. Engine off, nothing turned on, the ONLY thing on is the clock. That drain should be very small, as in a couple of miliamps.
2. Any significant amp reading, start pulling fuses to see which circuit it's in.
3. Identify the circuit then disconnect each item in that group until drain disappears.
4. Once offending item identified, either find out and correct its problem or replace it.
5. Verify unwanted amp drain is gone.
Engine running but not riding is similar to above.
Engine running but riding similar but you must stop each time to pull a fuse to identify the offending circuit. Even then you must avoid pulling the circuit fuse that is for either ignition, ECU or fuel infection.
You must have some voltage indication while riding because you said the voltage continued to drop while riding. I think that is a key that you are running "total loss" or strictly on battery. That puts the problem smack dab on connections among stator, regulator/rectifier and the system or malfunction of either stator or r/r.
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DC ammeter in the main circuit. Not moving is simple:
1. Engine off, nothing turned on, the ONLY thing on is the clock. That drain should be very small, as in a couple of miliamps.
2. Any significant amp reading, start pulling fuses to see which circuit it's in.
3. Identify the circuit then disconnect each item in that group until drain disappears.
4. Once offending item identified, either find out and correct its problem or replace it.
5. Verify unwanted amp drain is gone.
Engine running but not riding is similar to above.
Engine running but riding similar but you must stop each time to pull a fuse to identify the offending circuit. Even then you must avoid pulling the circuit fuse that is for either ignition, ECU or fuel infection.
You must have some voltage indication while riding because you said the voltage continued to drop while riding. I think that is a key that you are running "total loss" or strictly on battery. That puts the problem smack dab on connections among stator, regulator/rectifier and the system or malfunction of either stator or r/r.
Hi Karl and thanks. I don't have any voltage indication but I have made this assumption based on: When riding I get the indicator blinker display light up also the high beam. When I stop the bike there's not even enough voltage to crank her over. Almost like the brank new battery isn't being charged at all. Just drained. Two brand new batteries gone completely flat after few hrs of riding. I will do that fuse process tomorrow and let you know. I will go into town tomorrow and purchase me a voltmeter.
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Well lookie what I found. Now to replace this ground which was resting up against my exhaust. Stands to reason, when the engine is cold for the 1st minute of riding, all is fine, once everything gets hot, all voltage hell breaks loose. What do you all think?
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Would say "CONGRATULATION" and being happy you found the little bugger.
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Well lookie what I found. Now to replace this ground which was resting up against my exhaust. Stands to reason, when the engine is cold for the 1st minute of riding, all is fine, once everything gets hot, all voltage hell breaks loose. What do you all think?
The metal of the exhaust "should be" the same potential as the ground cable. That is, if the ground wire had no insulation and was touching the hot muffler, nothing "should" happen.
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The metal of the exhaust "should be" the same potential as the ground cable. That is, if the ground wire had no insulation and was touching the hot muffler, nothing "should" happen.
This was marine grade 8AWG wire (copper wire) which the last owner replaced but never zip tied to the frame properly. I would say it can cause interference, but I can be wrong. I've seen stranger things happen.
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Thanks guys. Still waiting for battery leads to arrive. Had another look at the system. Surprised it ran all this time. The ground was broken off completely. Previous Mechanic rigged it like this: Negative from battery straight to engine casing for grounding. Positive lead from battery to relay, from relay to starter motor!
The actual fuse box was bypassed completely. Found the old ground coming from battery to frame ground located on the frame after removing the seat. From there it went to nowhere.
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My electric route didn't look anything like this pic. LOL.
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Thanks guys. Still waiting for battery leads to arrive. Had another look at the system. Surprised it ran all this time. The ground was broken off completely. Previous Mechanic rigged it like this: Negative from battery straight to engine casing for grounding. Positive lead from battery to relay, from relay to starter motor!
The actual fuse box was bypassed completely. Found the old ground coming from battery to frame ground located on the frame after removing the seat. From there it went to nowhere.
Bypassed fusebox completely? Fat red wires do not go through fuse box if those the ones you are speaking. There is a skinny red wire from that post on the relay that does go to the fuse panel and the 35 amp or 30 amp fuse.
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Thanks to all. Scoot running fantastic. Feels good to be back on the road. Ground wire was running from negative straight to engine casing ground. Thanks again to all you guys for the input and help. You are a great bunch of guys.
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Good news and an even better pic.
All the best and come back once in a while.
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Thanks to all. Scoot running fantastic. Feels good to be back on the road. Ground wire was running from negative straight to engine casing ground. Thanks again to all you guys for the input and help. You are a great bunch of guys.
I must have missed something as I do not understand what was wrong and what fixed the problem! Please explain....
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Well lookie what I found. Now to replace this ground which was resting up against my exhaust. Stands to reason, when the engine is cold for the 1st minute of riding, all is fine, once everything gets hot, all voltage hell breaks loose. What do you all think?
Is "replacing this ground" really meaning "this wire from the battery was grounding against the hot exhaust?"
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Negative lead ran directly from the battery to the engine casing to be grounded. The last mechanic must have done this without zip ties to run the cable neatly. Ground wire touched the exhaust header and melted away. I saw another GTI and decided to check out the wiring, and the ground wire ran from battery-frame (next to the coil) and then to the engine casing. So this means that it wasn't properly grounded which explains the electrical issues and decline in performance.
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Negative lead ran directly from the battery to the engine casing to be grounded. The last mechanic must have done this without zip ties to run the cable neatly. Ground wire touched the exhaust header and melted away. I saw another GTI and decided to check out the wiring, and the ground wire ran from battery-frame (next to the coil) and then to the engine casing. So this means that it wasn't properly grounded which explains the electrical issues and decline in performance.
So the exhaust header melted completely through the copper cable? I agree the battery negative needs to go to frame and the engine needs to be grounded to the frame as well.
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The wire didn't melt completely, but I'm sure that the hot exhaust header would have caused some interference somehow.