KymcoForum.com
General => Technical | How To => Topic started by: rjs987 on December 30, 2021, 03:21:28 PM
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There have been reports in the past of issues with the heated grips. In the first few years of the AK 550 there were posts I've read about the grips melting from the heated grips system being too hot or maybe it was more likely the grip material itself was too soft and not up to par for using with grip heaters. The day I picked my AK 550 up from the dealer I did use the heated grips on the first leg of my trip home 180 miles. I didn't turn them on more than the lowest setting and they worked great the entire time. I used them a few times after that as well, always at the lowest setting since that was plenty of heat for the temps I was riding in at the time.
Last month, just as a back up in case the grip heat wasn't enough, I temporarily installed my heated gloves wire harness. I have used both the heated grips and the heated gloves at the same time once or twice after that.
When I did that I had the grip heat turned up to the middle setting, and just to test how hot they could be I set them at the highest setting for a short time. So far every time I used both glove and grip heaters the grip heaters indicated a fault, flashing red LED indicator on the left grip, and the system shut down. Every time that happened I had the grip heat set to the middle or high setting. I was thinking that maybe it was an issue with sensors in the grip heaters having an issue with the glove heater wires being energized. So I tried the heated grips on some rides while wearing my heated gloves but without turning on the heated gloves and the system was working great. So I thought maybe it was a fluke. I only had the grip heat set to the lowest setting during these rides.
A few days ago I rode with only the heated grips turned on to the highest setting. The temp was significantly colder than before at around 15F so I wanted to see if the high setting on the grip heat would be enough. I did not have the heated gloves turned on this time either. But after only ONE mile the grip heaters issued a fault with the flashing red LED. So I think there is a problem that needs to be resolved with the heated grips.
I sent an email (for a record of when this is reported) to my nearest Kymco service center and am waiting a reply about getting warranty service on this issue. I sent the email last night and also since this is a holiday weekend I really don't expect a reply until sometime next week so we'll see what happens.
I am thinking that it would be a really poor implementation of a grip heater system if they cannot handle being used in cold temps. I mean, isn't that exactly when they are supposed to be used? Everything else on the AK is working flawlessly. I even had one ride at temps several degrees colder than it was on this last ride but was only using my heated gloves and the bike is working perfectly in the cold weather.
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As I'm thinking about this issue I remember that I've had my phone plugged into the USB port in the left glove box each time. Actually almost every time I ride since I'm usually also running Noodoe navigation on most of my rides just to become accustomed to how it works.
During very cold rides I notice that my phone doesn't charge like it does when the temps are slightly warmer. That's actually subjective since I'm referring to temps below 20F vs above 30F. At those colder temps, below 20F my phone doesn't seem to charge while plugged into the USB port. If my phone was in my pocket, which I have done a few times, it also drains the battery fast while riding in cold temps like that. When the temps are above 30F my phone charges fully in a short time while plugged into the USB port.
This may be a clue that I need to test out. The USB power port and the storage box LED light AND the Heated grips are all on the SAME fuse. It could be that the current draw on the heated grips when set to the middle or high setting in addition to my phone being cold and drawing more than normal on the USB port just to maintain is too much for the system. So next time I ride in very cold temps I'll have to NOT plug in my phone and set the grip heat to high just to see if it still fails.
If it does not fail then I would intend to rewire the USB port to an AUX fuse block that I intend to install anyway. If the heated grips still fail at the high setting in very cold rides the we're back to a warranty issue. Though I would think that combining those systems on one fuse should not be an issue if it was done right.
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I really doubt that the phone charging would really cause such a high load that the system couldn't handle it. The USB port is maxed out at 10W (2 amp max). But I could see maybe that being enough to push the load over while also using the heated grips on high, or even maybe to marginal with grip heat set to medium.
So just to verify that theory about amps or load on the system while using the heated grips at the high setting...
I eliminated everything but what the factory intends to be turned on when the heated grips are used. Nothing was plugged into any USB port nor the Battery Tender cable. I started the AK in my garage and turned on the grip heat to the highest setting. I let it idle like that for over 10 minutes, maybe 15. The grip heat stayed on with no issues.
The ride this morning was in temps around zeroF (-17.8C). Again, nothing was connected that the factory didn't install. I put the grip heat on the high setting. Just over a mile down the road the grip heat threw the fault indication (red LED flashing and then off) and shut down.
Heated grips are intended to be used when temps are colder. Right? So why would a heated grips system fail when temps are colder?
To me this indicates a defective heated grips system. Maybe the controller or the heaters cannot operate in the cold? That would be contrary to the intended purpose of the system.
I have an email sent to the nearest Kymco service and maybe I'll attempt to send another to KymcoUSA as well.
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Been thinking on this issue and also continuing to research possible reasons. Some posts in other forums I've found have mentioned about a temperature restriction or limit on the heated grips system of other bikes, including a BMW R1200GS. Seems on some bikes several modules turn off when the temp is extremely low. I know that cold temps reduce the battery capability to maintain a charge. And if there is a danger that if the battery charge could become too low to start the bike due to a combination of extreme cold and other modules on the bike draining too much or putting more load than the alternator can overcome then those non-essential modules begin to be shut down... including even ABS on some bikes. There may be something similar happening with my AK 550 though not exactly the same as this seems to be different on different bikes. Tomorrow will be around 35F and many days next week will be the same or warmer so I will be testing the high setting on the grip heat to see if that is the issue. With above freezing temps I do not expect there to be any problem with the alternator keeping up with the load. The only concern I have about this is that the grip heat on low seems to work great at any temp, even low 20sF. So maybe there is something to this idea or maybe not. It is possible that because I do ride in near zeroF temps I'll just have to use my heated gloves at those low temps and only use the heated grips at warmer than 25F.
I did order a pair of handlebar muffs and based on how well my Gerbing gloves were working even without the heat controller plugged in this morning on my ride at zeroF temps I think the muffs would work well even without heated gloves at that temp or even below and possibly with the low grip heat setting. But it's still a bummer that the heated grips don't work at really cold temps on anything higher than the low setting.
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@rjs, if I remember well, on my BMW R1200 GS, was one of the early oil heads about 1993-94, there was the same issue in combination with ABS light ON during cold starts. Remedy, but only for short, was a new battery. We never really found out its cause.
Cold start, ABS light on, after few minutes of running, motor off, new start and NO ABS warning light.
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I think that is what's happening with my AK. Went out to grab a few tags today. Rode 21.7 miles and made 3 stops along the way. Temp was about 29F to 30F (-1.6C to -1.1C) the entire way. I had the grip heat set to high all the way around. The first leg was the longest leg at just over 9 miles and the grip heat worked flawlessly the entire way. I wore my lighter winter gloves and the high heat setting kept my hands warm, though I could feel a chill on the back of my fingers. That chill was just OK due to how warm the palm side of my hands were. The second leg was just 2.6 miles and I decided to plug in my phone to the USB power port for that leg just as a test. With the grip heat still set on high and my phone plugged in the grip heat failed just over 2 miles along the way. For the next 7.2 miles to my 3rd stop I did not have the phone plugged in and had the grip heat set again to high and no fail this time. And no fail for the remaining 2+ miles home with the grip heat set to high.
So the intermediate conclusion from this trip is that at just a few degrees below freezing the grip heat set to high stays on and works as it should as long as I don't plug in anything to the USB port. But if the temp drops much colder the grip heat system shuts down for just the reason given in the last few posts.
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I did get out for a ride today. The temp was 23F all the way around the 39.7 miles. I turned on the grip heat only to the low setting and it stayed on all the while I was warming up before I started moving. I did already back out of the garage and was just sitting idling in the driveway outside. Only .9 miles, not even a mile, down the road and the grip heat was shut down. The heat was sufficient for the air temp... if it had not shut down.
So either there is a low temp limit that will shut off the heated grips system due to current draw to keep the battery properly charged, or there is a warranty issue that needs to be fixed. That is still the big question. I have a message sent to both Kymco USA as well as my nearest Kymco service center asking if there is such a cold temp limit. Sent that late on Saturday (yesterday) so not expecting a reply until Tuesday at the earliest since most mc dealerships are closed on Sunday and Monday.
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Heard back from Kymco USA... sort of. I had called the technical department at the HQ in SC but had to leave a VM. I missed the call back and got a VM in return. The technical representative said that the heated grips *should* work at any temperature. So what I was hoping and what most of you have said is right. At least, I was hoping that they SHOULD work, but I was also hoping that a repair would not be needed. But they should, so a repair is needed.
While I was talking with the Kymco USA reception I asked where the closest authorized service center is to me. They gave me a few options to call about warranty service but not the one big dealer I've been talking to. Seems that dealer is not on their list, but that dealer website and also that dealer's service coordinator/manager states they do warranty work on my AK 550. I called the other service centers that I was given by Kymco USA and all of them stated they "will not" do warranty service on Kymco large scooters. Bummer. I'll stick with the dealer I've been contacting who says they will do warranty work.
Now to figure out how to get the AK to them to fix.
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seems odd that a Kymco franchised dealer (who Kymco Corporate directed you toward) would or could refuse to provide warranty service on a Kymco product.
Also odd that a dealer Kymco did not list as able to provide warranty work would be the only one willing to offer this service.
Kymco still has a long way to go before they are ready for the big leagues...unfortunately.
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@rjs, in a german KYMCO forum, one AK 550 owner was writing about the same issue.
Said, after a couple of unsucessful tries to solve it,
a motorcycle company found out a faulty assambly within an electronic item. Unfortunately he did not get details from this repair.
Maybe it helps if you mention this possibility during your warranty claim.
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@rjs, in a german KYMCO forum, one AK 550 owner was writing about the same issue.
Said, after a couple of unsucessful tries to solve it,
a motorcycle company found out a faulty assambly within an electronic item. Unfortunately he did not get details from this repair.
Maybe it helps if you mention this possibility during your warranty claim.
I have passed on my process to try and isolate when and what happens. It would definitely be helpful to know what it was that fixed this other owner's issue. I am most suspicious of the heated grips controller since the grip heat elements work great at freezing temps of above at all settings. Though it could possibly still be a marginal connection issue at the grip that only shows up in temps below freezing. But then I would think it would still fail then when I set the AK out in my driveway at 23F for a few hours and then started the engine while it was on the center stand and turned on the grip heat to the highest setting and let it idle like that for 10-15 minutes. It didn't fail then, so that's why I lean toward the controller since that was benefiting from engine heat while sitting still in my driveway idling but does get the cold blast when I am moving down the road riding.
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seems odd that a Kymco franchised dealer (who Kymco Corporate directed you toward) would or could refuse to provide warranty service on a Kymco product.
Also odd that a dealer Kymco did not list as able to provide warranty work would be the only one willing to offer this service.
Kymco still has a long way to go before they are ready for the big leagues...unfortunately.
Seems the issue is mostly with the itty bitty Kymco dealers in some small town areas that really only deal in ATV and quad tracks or the smallest of the scooter lineup.
Just talked with the technical lead at Kymco USA and verified that the dealer I am thinking of going to for this issue is indeed a Kymco support center and in good standing. He also is sending me a PDF of a section of the official service manual for the 2022 USA model that deals with getting the fail code for the heated grips system. There is a button sequence that will result in a failure code output, or series of flashes like an ECM code output, just for the heated grips system. So I will be able to determine before I take it in to the shop if it is a controller issue, wire or grip heater issue, or what. He also alluded to there being an ambient temp sensor that might be involved with this. I did see an air temp light indicated on the electrical diagram I have for displaying ambient air but there was no wire into that pin. Keeping in mind that the documentation I have is for the Euro 4 model so likely no more recent than 2020 and more likely 2019 or 2018. Changes may have been made since then. It was a very informative conversation with them.
He was VERY interested to know about what some of the dealers I was referred to by the receptionist at Kymco USA had to say and will be looking into those dealerships. They are by contract mandated to do warranty work on all of the Kymco line of products. He said that the receptionist only had access to the user interface for dealer locations which didn't show the dealer I am thinking of going to. He looked them up using his more extensive resources to verify they are able to provide the warranty work and recommended that since they stated that they will do it and that since they are a big dealership that I should certainly go there instead of any of the small places that seem to be in violation of contract by refusing to to warranty work.
Feeling much better about all this stuff around getting warranty work done as well as having verification from the Kymco technical lead that this problem should not be happening. There is no low temp limit where the grip heat stops working so will get it fixed in the next few weeks, or maybe month, hopefully.
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well that's a little more encouraging. Kymco has a premium maxi scooter that is getting a lot of attention..it would be in their best interest to provide quality service and warranty support for their new owners and products.
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I've been contemplating how to make the heated grips work for me in some of the very cold temps I ride in. Normally I'd need heated gloves at temps down to zeroF and below. But I've really only used the heated grips at near freezing temps with them set to low. They will go 2 more heat settings hotter so I should be able to use just heated grips even at the coldest temps I ride in. The only issue is keeping the tips of my fingers warm as well as the back of my hands. Wind blowing past the grips tends to make my finger tips very cold at the temps and setting I've used so far... down to 28F on low. It's better when I wear my thicker heated gloves but I can tell the finger tips will still get cold when the temp is down another 10, 15, 20 degrees F.
The primary solution I've been considering is a pair of handlebar muffs. But I'm cheap. Since I already own the heated gloves I don't want to spend what those cost for the official Hippo Hands which are vastly improved over what they were the last time I tried them, but cost vastly more as well. So far I've tried 2 different thick insulated handlebar muffs from Amazon and both times I found that while they fit on the handle bar/grips just fine I need a third hand to pull on them to get my hand TO the grip. The insulation is just too thick to allow me to simply slip my gloved hands all the way in even if I wear my thinnest summer gloves. I already returned the first pair I attempted and will be returning the second pair right away.
So time to change my thinking and on to something else. I know that Hippo Hands have one type that is basically an open shield that really doesn't fit back along my sleeve very far and is open to the controls. Think of it as more of a hand guard that has more shelter back to the wrist yet stays open. But that one still costs around $110 and I don't think I really need to spend even that. Like I said, I'm cheap. So I was thinking (dangerous as you all know)... why not just a standard hand guard large enough to block the wind but not covering the grips? If my finger tips are the only part of me that gets cold with the heated grips and if it is the wind on my hands that causes that I figure hand guards to block the wind should do the trick. I found some designed for the AK 550, as well as a set for many different bikes/scooters, on AliExpress for around $25 and almost free shipping. The look to be exactly like the Puig hand guards with the very same shape, color shadings, mounting brackets but not the $140 + shipping for the Puig version. They look nice enough to possibly leave on all year. If these don't work for me then I'll just use the heated grips for a little bit below freezing and when it gets really cold I'll plug in the heated gloves... but likely keep the hand guards anyway.
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My AK 550 is now in the hands of the Kymco dealer. Missing having it in the garage already even though my driveway is not ready for 2 wheels to stay upright.
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Just heard back from the dealer. They did find the problem. The shop tech set the AK on its center stand and started the engine and turned on the heated grips and let it run for some time. The shop tech then blasted the grips and also the controller with freeze spray. When the controller was sprayed and cooled the heated grips system failed and showed a fail code. So we have a winner... er... loser!
I had done this in my driveway when the temp was around 23F and the heated grips worked flawlessly when I did that but failed when I actually rode down the road in less than a mile at that temp. I don't have any freeze spray. The experiment I did told me there should be nothing wrong with the grip heater elements and likely nothing wrong with the grip heat thermal sensor which should be for sensing the temperature of the heater elements at the grips. The temp inside the body work of the AK would be slightly warmed by engine heat and the only part that would be affected by that would be the controller. So what the shop tech found supports what I suspected.
The warranty coordinator called me asking to verify the correct part number for the controller since she recalled I had sent them that info but couldn't read the label in the picture that Kymco USA sent me and that I had forwarded to the dealer. I had the number written down, so now the dealer is ordering the part from Kymco. Hoping to finish this within a few weeks... given that parts shipping can be very slow.
Getting very restless waiting for it now since the last few days the streets and driveway have been bone dry and clear. Perfect for riding.
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Just noticed in the email the tech department of Kymco USA sent me with the heated grips information, including the corrected controller part number, they also stated that they have the right part in stock at Kymco USA so shipping won't take as long as coming from Taiwan.
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I read that perspective buyers are following these lengthy lengthy sagas with these 550's.
Worrisome and surprising - since the scooter is new only to the USA.
Stig
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I read that perspective buys are following these lengthy lengthy sagas with these 550's.
Worrisome and surprising - since the scooter is new only to the USA.
Stig
This thread is actually no different than other threads I've written for my last 4 bikes on their respective forums. I only do this for the benefit of others considering a model and wondering about how things get worked out. As I've found, there really is not much difference between this and any other make or model of bike when warranty work or even out of warranty work is needed.
Of course, I believe it does help that I get involved at the regional level or higher if possible and also work with the dealer to learn as much information as I can and pass on what I learn.
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Seems to be like stated there..
https://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=32011.msg224802#msg224802
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Well, My AK 550 is back in my garage. Rented the U-Haul mc trailer again to pick it up today. $14.95+tax is not a bad price to pay for a really nice mc trailer. My wife was busy today with daycare of our youngest granddaughter. The Warranty Coordinator said she took it out for test ride to test the problem and the cure and confirmed the problem was fixed with a generous application of freeze spray with the heated grips controller in the bike as well as on the test bench out of the bike. The original controller unit failed all tests as I already knew it would. The new controller unit passed all tests as I was hoping it would.
Now for my own confidence building test ride. But that will have to wait for this weekend. Since the original controller only failed while riding in temps below 26F I have to wait for those temps to return to verify the repair. Saturday the high will be 25F, but will take a half day to get up to that from 4F. Sunday the high temp will be 21F coming up from a morning temp of 7F. So either day will work. As I suspected the dealer did not put the bike on any battery tender but with a little bit of riding the battery was barely enough to start the scooter. When I turned it on to ride it onto the trailer the battery voltage showed around 11.5v so I was surprised that it did start. But it started right up without any hesitation. So I guess this starter system doesn't need a full battery to start the bike. Good to know.
Yesterday I received highly recommended (by a member on the ST-Owners forum) handlebar mitts by Kemimoto. So I'll be trying those as well when I ride this weekend. My heated grips connectors will be hiding in the under seat storage just in case but if all goes well I won't need that system.Here's a link to the Kemimoto mitts.
Universal Touch-friendly Winter Gloves (https://www.kemimoto.com/products/kemimoto-atv-mitts-motorcycle-gloves-b0106-00101bk?currency=USD&sscid=11k6_n7y06&utm_source=ShareASale&utm_content=742098)
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I am considering this case closed.
Went out for a 22 mile ride this morning. The sun was shining and the pavement was clear and dry. The temp started out about 7F and went up to around 10F by the end of the ride. I had the Kemimoto mitts installed. They have a clear pocket on top of the right mitt that I put my temp sensor in with the probe hanging out in the wind so I was going by that.
Traveled mostly in town but still some faster roads up to 55 mph as well as a lot of 35 and 45 mph. The original problem was that the heated grips would fail at any temp below 27F within a mile of riding down the road. That meant for me that I was going 40 mph since I have at least a mile on the main road at the end of my street to go anywhere. During this ride I stopped twice to grab and place a tag early in the ride so more than half the ride was non-stop. The heated grips were set to high for the first half of the trip and worked flawlessly the entire time. The Kemimoto mitts were a big bonus keeping my hands warm even out to my finger tips. The heat setting on high started feeling too hot to turned it down to medium and then low. Was a little surprised about that but that means I can ride much colder without my hands getting cold at all. It also means I'll likely no longer need to install my heated gloves system. Debating if I want to sell that.
Here is one picture of the Kemimoto mitts.
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Rob - "...battery was barely enough to start the scooter. When I turned it on to ride it onto the trailer the battery voltage showed around 11.5v so I was surprised that it did start. But it started right up without any hesitation."
That really IS good to know...I kinda wondered if that was the case and there was no point in me getting the spendy Li replacment battery just because i was dipping down to 12.2 :D :P
Its supposed to last a really long time though so maybe it will be worth the cost.
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Well, I spoke too soon earlier.
This case is NOT closed!!!
Yesterday I went for a 22 mile ride with the heated grips set to high for over half the ride and then I turned them down to low for the rest of the ride. I was also trying out my new Kemimoto handlebar muffs along with the heated grips. Everything worked great on that ride. The ambient temps ranged from 7F to 10F so plenty cold for any issue with the controller to show up.
But me thinking that I need to replicate the exact situation when they failed before so I went for a 7 mile ride today. The ambient air temp was around 14F, still colder than when the problem originally showed up. But this time I did not have the muffs on the bars and wore my thickest gloves. The heated grips set on high failed within 2 miles. I did have my phone plugged into the USB port and that is on the same fuse circuit as the heated grips. So I stopped after 4 miles and unplugged my phone to take it out of the circuit. Again, the heated grips set on high failed within the next 2 miles.
This time I paid close attention to the fail flash code showing up on the grip LED. Both times it failed the code was 2 quick flashes followed by a pause, then repeat over and over until the bike was turned off. Per the service manual this indicates that the handlebar heater temp sensor is faulty. Not the controller unit that was just replaced.
It is possible that both items were faulty before but that the temp sensor didn't fail for the dealer but the controller unit did. The controller unit failed during bench testing so it was definitely bad. The heated grips likely worked flawlessly yesterday because I had the handlebar muffs covering the handlebars... protecting the handlebar heater temp sensor from the ambient temp while riding. I suppose if I have to I can just continue to ride with the bar muffs installed. BUT this is all still under warranty and should be working without me doing anything to make up for a failing part. And that is exactly why I went out today without the muffs. I need the heated grips to be working as intended from the factory at any temp that is commonly experienced in my area. And I ride at all of those temps no matter how low they go. OK, I might not ride if the temp drops to -20F (-28.9C). But that temp very rare around here. It is common to see a temp as low as -4F (-20C) around here during the cold season. And I don't want anything to prevent me from riding then other than snow/ice on the pavement.
So it turns out that both the controller and the handlebar heater temp sensor were defective. Rather bummed now since that means another trip to the dealer. And, looking at the weather reports for the next 2 weeks, it is unlikely that I'll be seeing the temps drop again to a level cold enough to verify any repair until next year.
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Decided it would be a good idea to cross check my results and testing by getting another ride in WITH the muffs on the bars again. Went on another ride tonight just before sunset at 15F and with the muffs on the bars no errors or fails with the heated grips throughout the 8.5 mile ride. So definitely they fail when the handlebars are not covered and sheltered from the cold temps by the muffs this time around.
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Is the dealer hearing from KYMCOUSA that this is due to a bad batch of parts?....bad design, poor assembly?.....or your scooter unlucky?
I ask because we learned here that a bad batch of throttle position sensors on throttle bodies showed up on some 2012 Kymco LIKE200I models. It was only coming to light on the 2012's, and it seemed to be a bad batch of parts (out-sourced?) rather than design or assembly.
Stig
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Is the dealer hearing from KYMCOUSA that this is due to a bad batch of parts?....bad design, poor assembly?.....or your scooter unlucky?
I ask because we learned here that a bad batch of throttle position sensors on throttle bodies showed up on some 2012 Kymco LIKE200I models. It was only coming to light on the 2012's, and it seemed to be a bad batch of parts (out-sourced?) rather than design or assembly.
Stig
I wouldn't be surprised if it were a bad batch of parts but I have no information from anyone about that. The only discrepancy I've been told about by KymcoUSA is that the part number for the controller unit in the service manual is wrong and they gave me the correct part number which I passed on to the dealer (they also received that info from KymcoUSA).
It wouldn't surprise me if the heated grips system was outsourced.
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Heard back from the dealer today. KymcoUSA is going through them for all information that they are passing to me which is reasonable since I was attempting to take advantage of a contact at KymcoUSA but really should be working through the dealer anyway.
On the current status of this issue Kymco told the dealer that based on all my testing that I have documented that it is their opinion that battery voltage/current is dropping too low for the heated grips to work properly. They also stated that the temps I reported riding in are well within what is acceptable for the heated grips to work so the ambient air temp is not the problem. The idea is that if the handlebar heater temp sensor is working at any air temp then that is not really the problem. I can totally understand if at very low ambient air temps the heated grips draw more on the battery than at warmer (relatively) air temps. And also that the handlebar muffs shield the grips from the colder air temps allowing them to operate more efficiently without drawing down the battery as much. This all indicates that the original factory installed battery may not be able to keep up in cold weather.
This would not be the first time I've heard of a factory supplied battery in ANY BRAND of bike being a bit less capable than any replacement would be. Even if the replacement is the same source brand. I've heard of this issue with every brand and model of bike that I know of.
The factory OEM battery that I have in my AK 550 is a Kymco branded Yuasa TTZ14S. Here in the USA the one available that is the same thing is the Yuasa YTZ14S. All the same specs but filled at the factory. This is a 11.8 Ah (20 HR) or 11.2Ah (10 HR) class battery. I looked more closely at the electrical diagrams I have and that shows a 14 Ah battery. The main thing I am thinking right now is that since the battery installed is Kymco branded then it may not be exactly the same quality as a battery direct from Yuasa even of the same model number. The difference between TTZ and YTZ batteries is that TTZ batteries come with an acid pack that must be used to fill the battery when it is put into service and YTZ batteries come from the factory with the acid already in the battery. Both are sealed AGM batteries. Those overseas members (not in the USA) already know this most likely.
All this is consistent with the additional detail that the same circuit that powers the heated grips also powers the USB port in the glove box and when my phone is plugged into that it stops charging at the same time as when the heated grips stop working. Yet my phone keeps charging when I am using the handlebar muffs just like the heated grips keep working.
In the next day or two I'll be going out for another test ride and this time pay particular attention to the battery voltage indicated on the dash volt meter. I did verify tonight that the indicated voltage is not just alternator output but actually what the voltage is showing at the battery. I tested with my meter on the Battery Tender plug while the bike was turned off and also while the bike was running on the center stand. The Battery Tender cable is directly connected to the battery only so shows the actual battery voltage at the battery same as what would be "seen" by any of the bike systems while the bike is running.
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Is the battery upright, or on its side (like a Burgman)?
I made certain I used a factory sealed 14Ah Yuasa in the Suzuki.
....though none are supposed to leak.
Wiring, charging system, battery, switches?
Seems something is not up to the job for the accessories.
Stig
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Is the battery upright, or on its side (like a Burgman)?
I made certain I used a factory sealed 14Ah Yuasa in the Suzuki.
....though none are supposed to leak.
Wiring, charging system, battery, switches?
Seems something is not up to the job for the accessories.
Stig
The battery sits with the top up. Just like my Burgman 650 was. And yes, it's an AGM sealed battery so won't leak even if it were on its side.
On the AK the battery is located in front of the dash instruments under the front cover up top. Still, the battery getting cold is not the issue but rather likely the cold air hitting the grips and/or the connections and sensor at the grips since there is no problem when the muffs are covering those. The battery is still exposed the same with or without the muffs. I'll just be using the muffs anyway since it is much warmer at very low temps and when it's time to replace the battery I'll go with something better, hopefully, than the Kymco branded battery.
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Went riding today without the muffs on the bars. Wore my thickest gloves and set the heated grips on high. The temp during this ride started out at 15F and ended up at 21F. I rode just over 23 miles.AND THE HEATED GRIPS WORKED GREAT THE ENTIRE RIDE. I rode a variety of roads ranging from 35 mph to 55 mph. I was paying particular attention to the volt meter reading during this ride. I do recall seeing the voltage drop to 13.8 during the rides when the heated grips did fail before but wasn't really paying a lot of attention to it or correlating that voltage drop to the grips failing.It is possible that the battery needed more time to recover and charge every cell completely after sitting at the dealer for 3 weeks without being plugged into any battery tender/maintainer device. A battery can show full voltage even if one or two cells are not fully charged and that would only show up during a full load being put on the battery. That could be why the heated grips failed a week ago. Since the controller unit was replaced that part has not failed. But if the battery wasn't able to provide full power to the system it could cause a random error code to show. It is also possible that what ever caused the fail code a week ago has resolved itself otherwise, but more likely the battery has now been fully charged and conditioned to equalize all the cells.
Since this ride was way past 12 times as long as when the heated grips failed any time in the past I'm not going to worry about this issue any more. One of my goals has been to be able to no longer need my heated gloves system. And also to not need to wear my heated gloves at all since they are thicker than any of my other gloves. They have been great for when I need them but with heated grips and the muffs on the bars I don't see that I'll need the thicker gloves any more. My plan moving forward is that any time the temps can drop below freezing during a ride I will use the handlebar muffs with the heated grips. My ride last week at 7F with the muffs showed me that my hands will be plenty warm with this combo down below zeroF.
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Been scouring this thread / topic -- did this all get sorted out?
...asking because, after 8,000 miles, these past two days I've had issues with the Heated Grips.
I live in California, and most of the times when I've used the Heated Grips, I've had it set to 3 - Full Heat - and it's worked great, every single ride (33 miles on most trips). It's worked really well since I bought the scooter new in May.
Two days ago, the Heat turned off after a few miles. This morning, same thing. Turned off. I tried turning back on again, and noticed the red light on the left grip would flash a few times.
If anyone has good basic troubleshooting suggestions, that'd be really helpful.
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As stated in prior posts by me the heated grips controller WAS proven the fault and was replaced. It failed on the bike as well as on the test bench when hit with freeze spray. The new controller was also hit with freeze spray on the test bench before it was installed and continued working fine. The grip heat temp sensors are located near the grips just where the wires enter the handlebars. It does seem that when you ride in really excessively cold temps like I do it is possible this cold air can blow into that hole in the bars and cool the grip heat temp sensors to give a false error indication to the controller. But as I posted just above the grip heat worked great at 15F without my handlebar muffs. My normal is that when I ride in any temp below 40 (getting older makes one less able to handle cooler temps) I do use the handlebar muffs. I don't usually turn on the grip heat at that temp but maybe at below 35F I will. The handlebar muffs shield the handlebars so cold air doesn't blow into the holes where the grip temp sensor is located so no false error can happen. The design is not the best.
If you are getting a flashing red light at the left grip indicator then you need to pay attention to the code that flashing shows. Here is the section from the service manual on the fault indication, the same information is in the owner manual. The bold part in step 5 is the error code to look for to determine where the fault is. The fault code shows before you turn off the bike when the heated grips fail and after the self check is done if a fault is found.
Handlebar Heater State Indicator:
1. After turning ON KEYLESS Main Switch, a self-check is performed with the
LED indicator flashing in a 1-white and 1-red format.
2. After KEYLESS Main Switch ON and indicator self-check, in the event of a
Handlebar Heater anomaly, the indicator will flash in red, with the Handlebar
Heater function disabled. (Refer to anomaly states below for indicator flashing
modes.)
3. After KEYLESS Main Switch ON, press and hold the button to activate
Handlebar Heater. Indicator lights in white constantly for normal operation.
4. Turn KEYLESS Main Switch OFF or press and hold the button to deactivate
Handlebar Heater. The indicator will go out, indicating the function is switched off.
5. If Handlebar Heater is faulty, the indicator will flash in red.
When Handlebar Heater function is OFF, anomaly states are as follows:
a. 1 flashes (on/off) per 0.2s followed by 2s off: Handlebar Heater function is
faulty.
b. 2 flashes (on/off) per 0.2s followed by 2s off: Handlebar Heater temperature
sensor is faulty.
c. 1 flash (on/off) per 0.3s followed by 0.3s off: Handlebar/ Controller Circuit is
faulty.
After eliminating the fault and re-starting (Key Off -> Key On) the vehicle,
indicator will resume normal operation.
Clicking the button when the indicator is flashing in red will stop the flashing. For
the sake of your safety, please go to a KYMCO dealer for check-up.
I have found that I haven't needed to turn up the heat any more than the lowest setting. I have tried medium and even high for short times but those were too hot for me even below 10F with the muffs also in use. In Dec 2022 I rode in temps at around 6F with the muffs and grip heat on low and was toasty warm. It is all working fine for me since the controller was replaced last year.
BTW- riding at any temp above freezing should never cause the grip heat temp sensors to fail.
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Thanks, Bob, for these helpful troubleshooting steps.
I've had a few days where the Heated Grips are consistently working again - and the troubleshooting I did was to plug in the trickle charger overnight. This is by no means scientific, of course, and I'm glad they are working again.
As stated in prior posts by me the heated grips controller WAS proven the fault and was replaced. It failed on the bike as well as on the test bench when hit with freeze spray. The new controller was also hit with freeze spray on the test bench before it was installed and continued working fine. The grip heat temp sensors are located near the grips just where the wires enter the handlebars. It does seem that when you ride in really excessively cold temps like I do it is possible this cold air can blow into that hole in the bars and cool the grip heat temp sensors to give a false error indication to the controller. But as I posted just above the grip heat worked great at 15F without my handlebar muffs. My normal is that when I ride in any temp below 40 (getting older makes one less able to handle cooler temps) I do use the handlebar muffs. I don't usually turn on the grip heat at that temp but maybe at below 35F I will. The handlebar muffs shield the handlebars so cold air doesn't blow into the holes where the grip temp sensor is located so no false error can happen. The design is not the best.
If you are getting a flashing red light at the left grip indicator then you need to pay attention to the code that flashing shows. Here is the section from the service manual on the fault indication, the same information is in the owner manual. The bold part in step 5 is the error code to look for to determine where the fault is. The fault code shows before you turn off the bike when the heated grips fail and after the self check is done if a fault is found.
Handlebar Heater State Indicator:
1. After turning ON KEYLESS Main Switch, a self-check is performed with the
LED indicator flashing in a 1-white and 1-red format.
2. After KEYLESS Main Switch ON and indicator self-check, in the event of a
Handlebar Heater anomaly, the indicator will flash in red, with the Handlebar
Heater function disabled. (Refer to anomaly states below for indicator flashing
modes.)
3. After KEYLESS Main Switch ON, press and hold the button to activate
Handlebar Heater. Indicator lights in white constantly for normal operation.
4. Turn KEYLESS Main Switch OFF or press and hold the button to deactivate
Handlebar Heater. The indicator will go out, indicating the function is switched off.
5. If Handlebar Heater is faulty, the indicator will flash in red.
When Handlebar Heater function is OFF, anomaly states are as follows:
a. 1 flashes (on/off) per 0.2s followed by 2s off: Handlebar Heater function is
faulty.
b. 2 flashes (on/off) per 0.2s followed by 2s off: Handlebar Heater temperature
sensor is faulty.
c. 1 flash (on/off) per 0.3s followed by 0.3s off: Handlebar/ Controller Circuit is
faulty.
After eliminating the fault and re-starting (Key Off -> Key On) the vehicle,
indicator will resume normal operation.
Clicking the button when the indicator is flashing in red will stop the flashing. For
the sake of your safety, please go to a KYMCO dealer for check-up.
I have found that I haven't needed to turn up the heat any more than the lowest setting. I have tried medium and even high for short times but those were too hot for me even below 10F with the muffs also in use. In Dec 2022 I rode in temps at around 6F with the muffs and grip heat on low and was toasty warm. It is all working fine for me since the controller was replaced last year.
BTW- riding at any temp above freezing should never cause the grip heat temp sensors to fail.
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Thanks, Bob, for these helpful troubleshooting steps.
I've had a few days where the Heated Grips are consistently working again - and the troubleshooting I did was to plug in the trickle charger overnight. This is by no means scientific, of course, and I'm glad they are working again.
One other thing to watch for is the voltage level while riding. I usually see 14.1 +/- .1 while riding in warmer weather. In below freezing weather and the heated grips turned on the low setting the voltage meter shows 13.9-14.0 depending on engine speed. I found that with my phone also plugged in to charge while using the heated grips the voltage would drop a bit more. The heated grips system and USB plug are on the same fuse. I did have my heated grips system shut off once while charging my phone in near 20F temps and going slow through town. I realized that the bike computer will shut down things like the heated grips system AND USB port if the battery doesn't get enough charge while riding so I avoid charging my phone in the cold. I don't usually ride very far in cold temps anyway so not a big deal. My phone will hold a charge for all day anyway so don't need to charge it while riding unless I am using the phone with the AK for navigation. Again, I don't usually do that in cold riding.
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One other thing to watch for is the voltage level while riding. I usually see 14.1 +/- .1 while riding in warmer weather. In below freezing weather and the heated grips turned on the low setting the voltage meter shows 13.9-14.0 depending on engine speed. I found that with my phone also plugged in to charge while using the heated grips the voltage would drop a bit more. The heated grips system and USB plug are on the same fuse. I did have my heated grips system shut off once while charging my phone in near 20F temps and going slow through town. I realized that the bike computer will shut down things like the heated grips system AND USB port if the battery doesn't get enough charge while riding so I avoid charging my phone in the cold. I don't usually ride very far in cold temps anyway so not a big deal. My phone will hold a charge for all day anyway so don't need to charge it while riding unless I am using the phone with the AK for navigation. Again, I don't usually do that in cold riding.
Interesting. I really wanted to like the Noodoe nav system, but think it's lacking in many business locations and even some addresses. So about six months ago, I installed a phone holder I bought off Aliexpress, and hard-wired it to the battery, and it works great.
I've only recently started to charge my phone while riding. I'll keep an eye on voltage - I've seen mostly upper 13s while riding. It seems like I only see 14.0 or 14.1 when the battery is full charged. Fortunately, the heated grips are working great again.
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A lot of reading there. My heated grips on my new AK 550 don't work right either. No matter what position I put the heater in (low, medium or high) they get very hot instantly. So hot I have to turn them off or fry my hand. Haven't used them since. My dealer is 100 miles away and its cold outside. Worry about it this summer.
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When the heated grips controller was replaced on mine the tech at KymcoUSA told me that the part number had changed from the manuals that were available at that time (January/February 2022). That tells me there was an update to the controller. Mine currently works as it should. I can sense a difference between low, medium, and high. Enough for when the temps are really low and the low setting is not quite enough heat and high setting is plenty. That was what I found when I rode at just below zeroF. When I ride at just under 10F the low setting is enough.
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Today it was 50 degrees and sunny. I put the heater on low and it got warm but not too warm. I'm finding out that the heater is for really cold temperatures. Usually if its below 50 or say 45, I stay home. I'm going to try riding in colder temps. Will see how it goes. Middle of February here in SE Iowa and so far no snow.
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Today it was 50 degrees and sunny. I put the heater on low and it got warm but not too warm. I'm finding out that the heater is for really cold temperatures. Usually if its below 50 or say 45, I stay home. I'm going to try riding in colder temps. Will see how it goes. Middle of February here in SE Iowa and so far no snow.
Yeah, we did have snow here but the last of it was totally gone by yesterday. Was 52F here today and expecting 56F tomorrow.
I usually don't turn on the heated grips unless the temp goes below freezing. The handlebar muffs I use keep my hands plenty warm above that and my gloves alone are all I really need above 40-45F.
With the heated grips I found out what I always suspected with them... they do great at keeping the palm side of the hands warm but not so much the finger tips and back of the hands, unless you wear thicker gloves or have something like the muffs to shield from the wind. My circulation is not so good anymore so that doesn't help distribute the heat from the inside to the outside of my hands.
With the muffs the heat from the grips warms up the air inside the muffs. I know at least one rider on the ST-Owners forum who has heated grips and muffs and often rides with only his summer gloves at temps just below freezing and still has warm hands. He has the same muffs as I do and was the rider who recommended them to me.
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Well, well, well....
Just put my battery back in yesterday and decided I'm riding my bike to work today since we are having great weather for this time of year.
Last fall I used the heated grips a lot and always on the highest setting. No issues....at that time.
Tonight on my way home in the dark after work the headlights are blinking on and off, the heated grips won't stay on and the RED light at the edge of the left grip is also blinking Red off and on.
I thought I was smelling something burning but I cannot say for sure that was the case.
One other thing....when I had trouble with a dead battery last summer and I had the battery out, I never put back the battery plastic cover. And it was off and not used the whole summer.
So I start thinking tonight something is getting fried in there....
This is not good.....whatever the problem is.....
There have been reports in the past of issues with the heated grips. In the first few years of the AK 550 there were posts I've read about the grips melting from the heated grips system being too hot or maybe it was more likely the grip material itself was too soft and not up to par for using with grip heaters. The day I picked my AK 550 up from the dealer I did use the heated grips on the first leg of my trip home 180 miles. I didn't turn them on more than the lowest setting and they worked great the entire time. I used them a few times after that as well, always at the lowest setting since that was plenty of heat for the temps I was riding in at the time.
Last month, just as a back up in case the grip heat wasn't enough, I temporarily installed my heated gloves wire harness. I have used both the heated grips and the heated gloves at the same time once or twice after that.
When I did that I had the grip heat turned up to the middle setting, and just to test how hot they could be I set them at the highest setting for a short time. So far every time I used both glove and grip heaters the grip heaters indicated a fault, flashing red LED indicator on the left grip, and the system shut down. Every time that happened I had the grip heat set to the middle or high setting. I was thinking that maybe it was an issue with sensors in the grip heaters having an issue with the glove heater wires being energized. So I tried the heated grips on some rides while wearing my heated gloves but without turning on the heated gloves and the system was working great. So I thought maybe it was a fluke. I only had the grip heat set to the lowest setting during these rides.
A few days ago I rode with only the heated grips turned on to the highest setting. The temp was significantly colder than before at around 15F so I wanted to see if the high setting on the grip heat would be enough. I did not have the heated gloves turned on this time either. But after only ONE mile the grip heaters issued a fault with the flashing red LED. So I think there is a problem that needs to be resolved with the heated grips.
I sent an email (for a record of when this is reported) to my nearest Kymco service center and am waiting a reply about getting warranty service on this issue. I sent the email last night and also since this is a holiday weekend I really don't expect a reply until sometime next week so we'll see what happens.
I am thinking that it would be a really poor implementation of a grip heater system if they cannot handle being used in cold temps. I mean, isn't that exactly when they are supposed to be used? Everything else on the AK is working flawlessly. I even had one ride at temps several degrees colder than it was on this last ride but was only using my heated gloves and the bike is working perfectly in the cold weather.
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... the heated grips won't stay on and the RED light at the edge of the left grip is also blinking Red off and on.
I thought I was smelling something burning but I cannot say for sure that was the case.
One other thing....when I had trouble with a dead battery last summer and I had the battery out, I never put back the battery plastic cover. And it was off and not used the whole summer.
So I start thinking tonight something is getting fried in there....
This is not good.....whatever the problem is.....
In reply 32 above I posted the code that is blinked out by that red light when it flashes. Pay attention to that flash sequence to determine what exactly is failing on the heated grips system.
That's your troubleshooting diagnostic indicator for the heated grips system. I would also check out on top the battery to make sure there isn't something that found its way on top the battery to cause that burning smell. It could be a defect in the heated grips system (controller, grip heat sensor or grip heaters) but with the headlights also blinking off/on seems to indicate a different electrical issue, maybe a problem at the battery. A grip heater problem shouldn't effect the headlights. I'd suggest once it's all sorted to get that plastic cover put back on. There is a very good reason it's there. It also has the tab that holds the fuse box from bouncing around... which could be part of the problem.
There are only 2 electrical circuits on the fuse for the heated grips. The heated grips system and the USB charging port. That's it. That fuse will blow if there is a serious enough problem in one of those 2 systems and protect the other circuits. But if there is a problem at the top of the battery that can effect the entire electrical system of the bike in random ways.
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In reply 32 above I posted the code that is blinked out by that red light when it flashes. Pay attention to that flash sequence to determine what exactly is failing on the heated grips system.
That's your troubleshooting diagnostic indicator for the heated grips system. I would also check out on top the battery to make sure there isn't something that found its way on top the battery to cause that burning smell. It could be a defect in the heated grips system (controller, grip heat sensor or grip heaters) but with the headlights also blinking off/on seems to indicate a different electrical issue, maybe a problem at the battery. A grip heater problem shouldn't effect the headlights. I'd suggest once it's all sorted to get that plastic cover put back on. There is a very good reason it's there. It also has the tab that holds the fuse box from bouncing around... which could be part of the problem.
There are only 2 electrical circuits on the fuse for the heated grips. The heated grips system and the USB charging port. That's it. That fuse will blow if there is a serious enough problem in one of those 2 systems and protect the other circuits. But if there is a problem at the top of the battery that can effect the entire electrical system of the bike in random ways.
THANK YOU RJ!
Grateful!
Jeff
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In reply 32 above I posted the code that is blinked out by that red light when it flashes. Pay attention to that flash sequence to determine what exactly is failing on the heated grips system.
That's your troubleshooting diagnostic indicator for the heated grips system. I would also check out on top the battery to make sure there isn't something that found its way on top the battery to cause that burning smell. It could be a defect in the heated grips system (controller, grip heat sensor or grip heaters) but with the headlights also blinking off/on seems to indicate a different electrical issue, maybe a problem at the battery. A grip heater problem shouldn't effect the headlights. I'd suggest once it's all sorted to get that plastic cover put back on. There is a very good reason it's there. It also has the tab that holds the fuse box from bouncing around... which could be part of the problem.
There are only 2 electrical circuits on the fuse for the heated grips. The heated grips system and the USB charging port. That's it. That fuse will blow if there is a serious enough problem in one of those 2 systems and protect the other circuits. But if there is a problem at the top of the battery that can effect the entire electrical system of the bike in random ways.
Was not sure where I put the battery cover piece and when I found it I noticed there is a fuse on the side of the cover. I am sure that is just an extra fuse correct?
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Was not sure where I put the battery cover piece and when I found it I noticed there is a fuse on the side of the cover. I am sure that is just an extra fuse correct?
Yes, that is just a spare. I put mine in a small case I have in the storage box (under seat) with an assortment of fuses. There are a few other spares in the fuse block as well.
I was mistaken about how many circuits are on the grip heaters fuse. There are 3: grip heat, USB charge, and seat open switch LED. But that last one doesn't show connected to that fuse in the electrical diagram yet the notes on the electrical diagram do state that it is there. So that's where I lost track of that one. But still none of those would effect the headlights or any other electrical part on the AK.