KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => Downtown 300 => Topic started by: Whisper on April 12, 2011, 12:48:42 PM
-
I know some people on the forum have noticed it takes quite a few cranks sometimes, to get the DT300i to start, after it has been sitting in the blazing hot sun (90+F here yesterday - It felt like the sun was 12 ft overhead!!!).
I'm fairly certain, the gasoline expansion due to the increase in temperature causes the excess to dump into the cylinder, slightly flooding it.
I've tried MANY techniques to get it to fire up more easily in this situation, and I think I have nailed it. The Anti-Flood setting seems to do the trick! If it doesn't spring to life after 2-3 seconds of starting, this is what I do, and it seems to work very well! Please tell me if it helps you out!
- Try starting. If you get 2-3 seconds without joy, then
1. Twist the throttle ALL THE WAY open, and hold it
2. Press and hold the starter button (While holding the throttle all the way open) for 3 full seconds.
3. Release the starter, then the throttle and wait 5 seconds.
On the next go, it should fire right up.
-
I'll give it a try, seems there's no rhyme or riddle as to why my DT has trouble starting sometimes. :-\
-
Common issue? :(
-
Have you taken it in to the shop where you bought it? It sounds like an issue that should be handled under warranty.
-
That was the technique we used in the olden days to start a flooded carburated car engine. Put the pedal to the floor and crank it.
-
Have you taken it in to the shop where you bought it? It sounds like an issue that should be handled under warranty.
It doesn't happen often but it does happen....problem is it happens more when the engine is cold. Until it becomes a major problem I won't go through the HASSLE of dropping the scoot off at the dealer and try to find someone on a workday to bring me home. I just got the first oil change today so I'm breaking it in. :)
-
That was the technique we used in the olden days to start a flooded carburated car engine. Put the pedal to the floor and crank it.
Kind of, but the DT300i is a fly-by-wire job - The anti-flood mode is a legit service mode, apparently.
Common issue? Sad
Every bike has its quirks. The Silverwing wallows when cornering hard, The Bergman 650 oscillates at high speed, etc. Given that this quirk is that I have to hold the starter button for 3 seconds - I think I can deal with it ;D
Have you taken it in to the shop where you bought it? It sounds like an issue that should be handled under warranty.
Unfortunately, no. I have yet to hear of a shop that even knows what to do with the DT300i. Most reported here don't even bother with the service manual. Secondly, the issue ONLY manifests itself under very certain conditions - ALL of which seem to need to be met:
* The engine must be allowed to cool and sit for at least 4-5 hours.
* It must be cool outside when the engine is turned off.
* The unit MUST be in direct sunlight for the duration of the sitting, and the temp delta must be significant.
This issue NEVER happens: In my garage, in the shade, when the engine is warm, on cloudy days, on warm mornings, on cold evenings, if it is HOT in the garage, if it is COLD in the garage, when parked for an hour or 2, when parked overnight, at night, in the morning, etc.
So having the dealer do the troubleshooting would be difficult/useless. Once again, given that the solution is twisting the throttle and holding the start button for 3 seconds, on the occasions when this occurs - I'm not bothered/worried at all.
-
Yeah, I agree, Whisper. Not an issue really. Just a quirk. And, yes, Agent Bob, I remember that old technique well. ;D It was and is a good trick.
My 500's quirk is that when I park for, say, 10 to 20 minutes, it won't fire unless I crack the throttle -- then it fires right up. I believe the auto-choke thinks it's cooled off but the motor knows it's warm. :D '07 carburated.
-
I have no problems with quirks. As long as they don't impact safety.
But my old Yamaha TT350 had CHARACTER. That cold hearted she-devil required me to know EXACTLY what millimeter that choke needed to be at depending on the:
Ambient Temperature
Engine temperatire
Altitude
Time of day
Phase of moon
Neap/Spring Tide
Whether Venus was in retrograde
It was truly an incredible rubric to successfully start that thing. The good news is, it could NEVER be stolen and ridden off by the uninitiated - HA!
-
I have no problems with quirks. As long as they don't impact safety.
But my old Yamaha TT350 had CHARACTER. That cold hearted she-devil required me to know EXACTLY what millimeter that choke needed to be at depending on the:
Ambient Temperature
Engine temperatire
Altitude
Time of day
Phase of moon
Neap/Spring Tide
Whether Venus was in retrograde
It was truly an incredible rubric to successfully start that thing. The good news is, it could NEVER be stolen and ridden off by the uninitiated - HA!
The same was with my Yamaha TW125. ;D My first bike with gear shift lever. 8)
(http://p1.bikepics.com/pics/2004%5C01%5C08%5Cbikepics-95084-320.jpg)
Look at these tires. :D
-
I wonder if this is anything like the Vespa charcoal canister issue. It has to do with with the EPA required canister getting flooded or other wise plugged from a fuel overfill, an expansion of gas into the tubing/canister or a tip that causes fuel to flow into the system.
Many Vespa owners have removed, vented, or disabled the evaporative canister.
-
The same was with my Yamaha TW125. ;D My first bike with gear shift lever. 8)
(http://p1.bikepics.com/pics/2004%5C01%5C08%5Cbikepics-95084-320.jpg)
Look at these tires. :D
I thought you had the 200cc version!
Wish they imported the 225cc here.. it's probably a fun bike..
-
I wonder if this is anything like the Vespa charcoal canister issue. It has to do with with the EPA required canister getting flooded or other wise plugged from a fuel overfill, an expansion of gas into the tubing/canister or a tip that causes fuel to flow into the system.
Many Vespa owners have removed, vented, or disabled the evaporative canister.
I can't imagine, the scoot being so new, that the Canister could be plugged. Then again, I can't imagine a Narwhal is a real animal...
I DO know it gets clogged when you overfill - And I have been guilty of some EPIC overfillings!...
I'm going to figure out where that critter is, and experiment...
-
When i say "plugged" I mean the canister fills with liquid gasoline. IIRC, the canister is full of activated charcoal and it is there to prevent liquid gasoline from leaking onto the ground in case of overfills and fuel expansion in the sun. I think it control how much fuel vapors go into the atmosphere, too.
When the canister is full of liquid gasoline the carb/FI cannot breathe air in because when it draws in air from the canister...it gets a glug of gasoline and gas+gas (no air) equals "no-start" , air+gas = go!. Overfilling your tank can fill your canister and cause stalling, hard starts, and no-starts. So can laying the scooter over, either as gasoline into the canister or too much oil in the airfilter. It can take several days for the fuel in the canister to evaporate to a point when the canister allows the air to flow to the FI/carb
Amazing what I learn about reading these forums. See ModernVespa.com for more information. http://modernvespa.com/forum/wiki-evap (http://modernvespa.com/forum/wiki-evap) or http://modernvespa.com/forum/wiki-bv500-charcoal-cannister (http://modernvespa.com/forum/wiki-bv500-charcoal-cannister)
-
I thought you had the 200cc version!
Wish they imported the 225cc here.. it's probably a fun bike..
200 cc was sold only in USA. I have never heard of 225.
-
When i say "plugged" I mean the canister fills with liquid gasoline. IIRC, the canister is full of activated charcoal and it is there to prevent liquid gasoline from leaking onto the ground in case of overfills and fuel expansion in the sun. I think it control how much fuel vapors go into the atmosphere, too.
When the canister is full of liquid gasoline the carb/FI cannot breathe air in because when it draws in air from the canister...it gets a glug of gasoline and gas+gas (no air) equals "no-start" , air+gas = go!. Overfilling your tank can fill your canister and cause stalling, hard starts, and no-starts. So can laying the scooter over, either as gasoline into the canister or too much oil in the airfilter. It can take several days for the fuel in the canister to evaporate to a point when the canister allows the air to flow to the FI/carb
Amazing what I learn about reading these forums. See ModernVespa.com for more information. http://modernvespa.com/forum/wiki-evap (http://modernvespa.com/forum/wiki-evap) or http://modernvespa.com/forum/wiki-bv500-charcoal-cannister (http://modernvespa.com/forum/wiki-bv500-charcoal-cannister)
Techguy - The more I think about it, the more I think you may have something here. I read both those ModernVespa posts (I loved that forum when I had a Vespa!). The only thing I'm wondering is which approach to take.
The first post recommends installing a cheap filter on the end of the hose. I'm thinking one of those cheapie, anodized-aluminum automotive crankcase filters would be the ticket. This is prolly what I would have done if left to my own devices. I think you could easily get away with a line running douwn and out the bottom of the scoot with the rest of the overflow lines. The chances of dirt/dust getting up a 6"+ tube seem pretty remote. Is there ever a suction on that line? Could prolly find a cheapie check valve...
The second post recommends just capping it off. That is even easier/cheaper, but pressure buildup worries me. I don't want to blow some gasket/seal somewhere.
Do you have any thoughts/opinions/preferences on this? I am HAPPY to be the forum guinea pig - HA!
Axy - That bike looks like an incredible amount of fun (And wheelies). That back tire is AWESOME
-
When I had had a Piaggio Fly 150, i just disconnected the hose going back into the carb/cylinder.
Worked fine and never ever had a problem with it.
Other folks put some K&N fancy filter on the inlet into the carb/cylinder but I think that just looks fancy and doesn't really do anything except waist money.... which I have no problem with :) ... after all we all ride these toys
-
200 cc was sold only in USA. I have never heard of 225.
There's at least two TW's 200 registered here (Osijek).
225 was for Asian market then, I think it's sold in USA now too.
They're selling bucket loads of them there.
There was a XT225 too.
15hp beast.
-
When I had had a Piaggio Fly 150, i just disconnected the hose going back into the carb/cylinder.
Worked fine and never ever had a problem with it.
Other folks put some K&N fancy filter on the inlet into the carb/cylinder but I think that just looks fancy and doesn't really do anything except waist money.... which I have no problem with :) ... after all we all ride these toys
I think the current, optimal solution is to disconnect the hose, sack the charcoal thingee (to save weight!), then add the K&N filter looking thing (to waste money!). LOL!
Have to see how much room I have to work with. If this is the problem/solution, that will be AWESOME!
-
I think the filter is a small hose filter. I tried to find an image but they are very small hose filters simply to keep them from sucking in dust. I will post an image if I find one.
-
Axy - That bike looks like an incredible amount of fun (And wheelies). That back tire is AWESOME
It was weak-ish, had only 11 hp or so, but it could do wheelies.
HOWEVER, it would do STOPPIES, even I as a complete novice/beginner could do them from DAY ONE! :) :) :) :) :)
-
There's at least two TW's 200 registered here (Osijek).
There was one in Rijeka too.
However, they were never sold in Croatia. God knows how they ended up here.
-
There was one in Rijeka too.
However, they were never sold in Croatia. God knows how they ended up here.
Yeah, that's true, I remember seeing the 125 in a local dealer's price list
(and it was rather expensive, over 30kkn if I recall correctly), but I only saw
the 200s here.. I'll take a pic of one of them when I see'em.
Suzuki made/makes something virtually identical, I just saw it the other day
and was sure it was the TW, but then saw the Suzuki badge.. ???
EDIT: It was a Suzuki VANVAN
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_GJfckzUAusw/S63l0wg1L4I/AAAAAAAAADU/mtlJMyC-Zgk/s1600-R/suzuki_vanvan_cp_.jpg)
Also a 125..
-
Whisper,
I have been experiencing the same issues with my Like 200i. (also fuel injected.) I'm in Central Florida where it is really getting hot, and happening more frequently now. Are you still experiencing this issue? Is it getting worse now that it is getting hotter? Or have you figured out a way around it?
-
Whisper,
I have been experiencing the same issues with my Like 200i. (also fuel injected.) I'm in Central Florida where it is really getting hot, and happening more frequently now. Are you still experiencing this issue? Is it getting worse now that it is getting hotter? Or have you figured out a way around it?
I'm in Central Florida also.....east Orange county. I was having problems getting my DT started but now it starts right up. Don't know what's changed other than the hot weather were having. ???
-
Yep, West Orlando here. Using throttle does get it going for the first start on a cold engine like listed at the start of this, but it seems like it shouldn't be required of a brand new fuel injected bike. Than again, it is a single, and they often have their own ways of being. I certainly like the characteristics and payoffs of the single while it's running.
-
I live in NJ and we have had a couple of 90+ days ehre and no issue starting cold. I have had only issues 2 times, both were because I started it to move the bike for a few seeconds and then stopped it. This caused a flooded condition starting the bike again even the next day. I had to do the 3 second turnover at full throttle to clear the bike..............
-
I live in NJ and we have had a couple of 90+ days ehre and no issue starting cold. I have had only issues 2 times, both were because I started it to move the bike for a few seeconds and then stopped it. This caused a flooded condition starting the bike again even the next day. I had to do the 3 second turnover at full throttle to clear the bike..............
That is EXACTLY what happens to me if I don't fully commit to a full start.
-
My first time I started it from cold and ran for 2 seconds but shut it down to get in the storage. when I went to start up again it was flooded. Second time was at night moved it from behind the car to the front in the driveway when it was cold. The next day when I went to start it it was flooded...............