KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => Downtown 300 => Topic started by: woodbar on June 30, 2011, 11:37:06 PM
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As a new owner of the Downtown 300i (5 weeks & 500 miles) I can say that whilst I am generally pleased with the bike there seems to be some mis-information floating about that maybe needs clarifying.
First of all let me say that the following is with regard to my UK sourced machine from a Kymco Dealer.
In various places (including some Kymco importers sites) you may be told (or inferred) that this machine has:-
ABS - Antilock Braking System
TPMS - Tyre Pressure Monitoring System
Storage for 2 full face helmets
"Linked" braking system (left lever applies both front and rear brakes)
An adjustable windscreen .......
Well, it does not have any of the above! It does, however have a main speedometer scale in Kph and a virtually unreadable secondary scale (red print on black ground) in mph - In my view totally unsuitable/unusable for the UK - I don't know how it got "type approval" As I have said elsewhere on this forum, Kymco produce a unit with the main scale in mph (USA) so why don't they fit it for the UK? I have even looked into adding an auxilliary electronic speedo - I quite like the Trail Tech Striker but it is quite a lot of money and a bit of work to fit........... What's annoying is that the bottom section of the DT LCD display is not used although I have seen that a 4 digit display is available there (think that might be something to do with the mythical TPMS) - would have been good if they made provision for this to display a digital speed readout - mph / kph switchable!
I have just fitted my new Givi D924ST screen which I think "improves" the look of the bike from most angles and certainly cuts down a lot of the buffeting and wind noise I was experiencing - I can actually hear what the engine is doing now.
Unfortunately I am not impressed with Givi quality control - the lower fixing hole does not line up very well and they have not provided proper fittings so you can transfer the Kymco oval badge assembly properly. The original screen has 2 molded lugs which the fixing points of the "KYMCO" assembly fit into - the Givi screen just has 2 holes so the screws are too long and won't clamp the oval assembly. I have bodged it for now (2 small cable grommets and 2 screw cups as spacers!) whilst Ifigure out how to do a permanent job - or get the fittings from Givi!
There are also some "stress" marks in the plastic either side of the main bend lines - where it has been pressed into the mold or maybe overheated? There were some very sharp ragged edges on the bottom section of the screen - which I filed flat after cutting my finger on them! There are also a few minor blemishes in the main area of the screen which arrived (with no protective film) packed in bubble wrap bag (sealed with a "Givi" label) and rattling about in a Givi.it cardboard box - not the best way to protect £107 worth of my money!
I am still deciding how to proceed with this as although I like the screen it is actually too tall (it's about 6.5" taller than the original) and I am looking right through the edge of it when riding. I can sit up a bit and peer over the top or I can slouch a bit and look through it but due to the curvature of the top sections "reverse flip" it distorts your view making everything look a bit squashed. I think I could get away with cutting about 2 - 2.5" off the top and still get most of the benefit of the better air flow as I think a lot of this is due to the extra width in the lower section because it integrates with the body work shape and shields some of the handlebar much more than the original screen does.
Some information they don't tell you before you buy the Givi screen - it had 2 labels stuck on the front:- (at least they peeled off easily)
1) "WARNING - in case of strong winds, drive at moderate speeds and never exceed 100Km/h" - is it just me or is this ambiguous - does it mean NEVER exceed 100Km/h or only when its windy? It also tells you to never park with the sun shining on the rear of the screen as the curvature will create a "lens" effect (and vaporise anything in front of it?) and they don't accept any responsibility for any damage if you don't cover the screen! It is OK to park with the sun shining in from the front of the screen. In my limited knowledge of Physics, lenses and light paths - should this not be the other way about? I would think that sun shining from the front, onto the convex curvature could be concentrated at a point behind the screen - like the seat, handlebars or bodywork etc.?
2) The second label warns how to clean the screen and also says it is made from "Antishock" material - is this antishock with regard to static electricity or is it made out of polycarbonate as opposed to acrylic?
As a final note regarding the screen - I ordered it from motorbikesandparts.co.uk as they were one of the few suppliers listing it (in stock?) I paid my money then sat back and waited for it to arrive. After 3 days with no order update I contacted them to be informed that they had to order it from Givi UK, who also had no stock and had, in turn, ordered it from Givi IT - "will be 2 weeks".
It has taken nearly 4 weeks to arrive and my phone and email requests for an update have been met with either a recorded message (after holding on line) saying they could not take any calls or robotic one line emails not really answering your question. In all honesty their customer support seems to be virtually nil and I am unable to recommend them as a supplier. I have since done a Google search and found lots of other complaints being expressed in various forums etc.
Filters - I know some of this information is elsewhere on the forum but to clarify:-
HifloFiltro (Hiflo) produce a replacement oil filter for the DT 300i - it is item number HF566 - I have seen it on sale for £2.50 - my dealer charged me £6.86 for the Kymco one on the first service.
DNA produce a replacement air filter - item number P-KY3SC11-01 - this is available for around £68 - I checked with the dealer - the Kymco version will be around £22 when he fits one during a service so you would get 3 Kymco ones for the price of the DNA.
However what I did not realise is the OEM filter is throw away but the DNA one is "servicable" and should last indefinitely. Apparently you can buy a £12 "service kit" for it which provides the cleaning fluid and a quantity of special oil required to recoat the cotton filter. It also has a bigger surface area and is supposed to pass 33% more air than the OEM version. I assume the fuel injection system would automatically compensate for this increased, less restricted flow? Any thoughts?
Although I don't much like these "disposable" items we all use so many of - unless the increased air flow gives improved performance or better mpg then, doing the sums, and assuming you need a new service kit every time, you would need five "changes" to roughly break even on costs - by the sixth change you would start to show a small saving - but that's a lot of miles!
That's more than enough for one post - I hope someone finds it useful?
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As a new owner of the Downtown 300i (5 weeks & 500 miles) I can say that whilst I am generally pleased with the bike there seems to be some mis-information floating about that maybe needs clarifying.
First of all let me say that the following is with regard to my UK sourced machine from a Kymco Dealer.
In various places (including some Kymco importers sites) you may be told (or inferred) that this machine has:-
ABS - Antilock Braking System
TPMS - Tyre Pressure Monitoring System
Storage for 2 full face helmets
"Linked" braking system (left lever applies both front and rear brakes)
An adjustable windscreen .......
Well, it does not have any of the above!
;D ;D ;D
They have been marketing old People 250S as having linked braking system and storage for 2 full face helmets too...
It seems that they just copy/paste descriptions around. Their service manuals are grossly inaccurate too.
I wonder if there is a scooter Kymco is making that has all the above you have listed. :) :)
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As a new owner of the Downtown 300i (5 weeks & 500 miles) I can say that whilst I am generally pleased with the bike there seems to be some mis-information floating about that maybe needs clarifying.
First of all let me say that the following is with regard to my UK sourced machine from a Kymco Dealer.
In various places (including some Kymco importers sites) you may be told (or inferred) that this machine has:-
ABS - Antilock Braking System
TPMS - Tyre Pressure Monitoring System
Storage for 2 full face helmets
"Linked" braking system (left lever applies both front and rear brakes)
An adjustable windscreen .......
Well, it does not have any of the above!
ABS models are available at an extra cost here, I've seen TPMS in action on
youtube, and I was able to fit my 2 full face helmets under the seat and then
some (Schuberth C2 and IXS HX240, M size both).
I have never seen them advertise the linked braking or the adjustable screen
localy, and reading any review before you buy (something that should be done)
will confirm that.
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Yes, I am aware that there is an ABS model available - but that is a "Downtown 300i ABS" - NOT the plain vanilla 300i
I note the wiring diagram for the DT 125i actually shows TPMS as being fitted - not a model we have seen in the UK but maybe what you saw on Utube - it is NOT fitted on the 300i although the middle button is marked "TPMS" and there is the legend for an indicator on the dashboard but no switch behind the button!
To be fair to the UK importer I did query the inaccuracies on their website and they have now (mostly) removed references to TPMS and amended the storage description to "up to 2 helemts" - note the omission of "full face" and the addition of "up to"! To put this in context - my helmet is a Lazer Vertigo XL it will not fit - OK it IS a large size BUT I understand that the outer shell is common and it's only the internal padding and lining that is altered to give the different head sizes? They did agree with me that they could only "just" fit 1 FF in the rear space and 1 OF in the front.
As far as reading reviews before you buy - I always do - trouble is THAT is where I was told the bike had linked brakes, adjustable screen, ABS ........ and SOME of these reviews were linked to from the official Kymco UK site!
Anyway I am awaiting the arrival of a Kappa K35 Monolock Top box & Givi SR92M rack - I am assured my Lazer WILL fit in that - yet again Givi UK had nil stock - "will be 2 weeks coming from Italy" - does this sound familiar? In response to my complaint to Kymco regarding misleading storage information and the fact that I would NEED to add a top box they offered a "goodwill" gesture of supplying me a rack plus a 30l top box "at less than half price". Sounds good - yes I thought so UNTIL I obtained the specifics - Givi rack and E30 top box - the offer price was actually 105% of what I could get them anywhere on the web! I had assumed that the items might have been OEM Kymco supply but, no, they don't import any Kymco accessories! In any case ;D I wanted a slightly larger box.
Actually I would have preferred the SW Motech rack as it has 2 rear clamp bracket supports (instead of the single one on the Givi) BUT I could not find a stockist or anyone inclined to order one.
Anyone got any thoughts on the pros and cons of the increased flow airfilter in my first post above?
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Great post re the Downtown, I pick mine up tomorrow and did think that it had the features you mention (except the ABS which I had figured out the UK models don't have). I was particularly expecting the screen to be adjustable.
I'm getting an ex-demo bike with 600 miles on the clock for £500 discount. First service will be completed for me and the warranty has been extended by the dealer so I get a full 24 months. Part-ex deal on my old Honda PS was also pretty good. Although I may have been able to get a better deal I'm happy with it and hoping that the bike lives up to expectations!
I'm interested in your experiences with the Givi screen as I was getting quite a lot of wind in the face when I test rode the bike (I am 6" 1')
I've seen a set of stickers on eBay that will convert speedometers from km/hr to miles/hr and am probably going to try that out. I did find it a real problem working out what speed I was doing as the speedo tells me nothing useful. I may get used to it but would prefer some stickers.
Anything I should think about in my first weeks of riding this bike? (other than just enjoying myself!)
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One more interesting point is that somehow my insurance premium went down slightly. Very wierd as this is a new bike vs my 3 year old Honda PS 125 that is only worth about £1200.
Anyway, not complaining about that and just hoping that come renewal time in Sept the premium is as reasonable. I currently pay approx £230 fully comp parked on a driveway in a pretty poor postcode (E1) is London. Will have 3 years no claims in Spet.
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Great post re the Downtown, I pick mine up tomorrow and did think that it had the features you mention (except the ABS which I had figured out the UK models don't have). I was particularly expecting the screen to be adjustable.
Best of luck with your new bike - I think you should like it. Mine is about the same mileage as yours then and I must say is getting smoother and quicker with every hundred miles.
As regards the specifications - it's understandable for a reviewer to get some of the info wrong - just means they have not done their job properly - but when the importer provides misleading info............?
Well for your height the Givi screen might be just right - I am 5'11 1/2" with a 32" inseam and it's a bit too tall for me - getting up the courage to trim it down - it has vastly improved the ride although I shall have to see what happens when it's very windy!
I'm very interested in the conversion stickers - let me know how you get on with that. The mph scale was obviously put there to comply with legislation but nobody bothered to see if it was legible!
Anything I should think about in my first weeks of riding this bike? (other than just enjoying myself!)
Can't think of anything - yours should be pretty well run in - just have a blast - carefully of course!
Weird your insurance went down? Mine is about £175 FC including full AA breakdown bla bla (added about £25 for that) - but mine is in a locked brick built sh garage overnight in Somerset - and I don't have any bike NCD as this is the first one I have had for about 30 years!
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ABS models are available at an extra cost here, I've seen TPMS in action on
youtube, and I was able to fit my 2 full face helmets under the seat and then
some (Schuberth C2 and IXS HX240, M size both).
I have never seen them advertise the linked braking or the adjustable screen
localy, and reading any review before you buy (something that should be done)
will confirm that.
Comparison test of P250s and Xciting 250 on the importer's page claimed two full face helmets fit under the seat and that the scoot has linked brakes, none of which is true, at least not for P250S.
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Anyone got any thoughts on the pros and cons of the increased flow airfilter in my first post above?
No effect whatsoever, forget it.
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I've owned 6 bikes, 7 if you count the girlfriend's. They all come with goofiness in the owner's manual.
Warning: riding may cause unwanted injury, death, and pregnancy.
Right on!
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Warning: riding may cause unwanted injury, death, and pregnancy.
I thought the last one was from sitting on damp grass!
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No effect whatsoever, forget it.
That's very definite - not that I doubt you - I just don't know so I thought I'd ask. If so it's probably not worth laying out the cash for one.
I just remember, from long ago, friends removing air filters and fitting bellmouth tubes covered with a bit of gauze (or ladies tights :o) to improve the air flow into the engine and gain some performance. So I was thinking that a less restrictive filter might have some similar benefits? Of course that was with carbs and not fuel injection.
Here's another question - now I have started "pushing" the performance on the bike I can understand the comments I have seen elsewhere saying "this bike just loves 100 kmh" - this does seem to be the sweetspot.
But I have noticed that if you are accelerating hard, with the throttle at or near wide open, at just over 100 kmh the engine note goes "hard" sounding and with some increased vibration - the nearest I can describe it is like when a 2 stroke is 4 stroking - IF you back off the throttle until the noise/vibration cease, you can then wind it straight back on and it will pull sweetly up to 120 kmh?
Anyone else noticed this - or knows what may be causing it?
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That's very definite - not that I doubt you - I just don't know so I thought I'd ask. If so it's probably not worth laying out the cash for one.
I just remember, from long ago, friends removing air filters and fitting bellmouth tubes covered with a bit of gauze (or ladies tights :o) to improve the air flow into the engine and gain some performance. So I was thinking that a less restrictive filter might have some similar benefits? Of course that was with carbs and not fuel injection.
You have nailed it yourself.
Carburetor vehicles are usually slightly rich jetted from the factory and sometimes there might be slight/almost negligible improvement if you give them a bit more air.
If you change air filter for open version on cars that have 100-200 hp, you gain nothing, imagine what you will gain on 30 hp scoot.
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I'm very interested in the conversion stickers - let me know how you get on with that. The mph scale was obviously put there to comply with legislation but nobody bothered to see if it was legible!
Have a look at http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SPEEDO-OVERLAY-CONVERSION-KIT-STICKERS-MPH-KPH-/290582290325#ht_1687wt_1139 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SPEEDO-OVERLAY-CONVERSION-KIT-STICKERS-MPH-KPH-/290582290325#ht_1687wt_1139) - not sure if I am going with these or not but it is a cheap experiment
I've also read about something from motrax which goes inline in the speedo cable and then the km/hour reading on the speedo is actually miles / hour * I think *. Can't find too much more detail on that though.....
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Have a look at http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SPEEDO-OVERLAY-CONVERSION-KIT-STICKERS-MPH-KPH-/290582290325#ht_1687wt_1139 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SPEEDO-OVERLAY-CONVERSION-KIT-STICKERS-MPH-KPH-/290582290325#ht_1687wt_1139) - not sure if I am going with these or not but it is a cheap experiment
I've also read about something from motrax which goes inline in the speedo cable and then the km/hour reading on the speedo is actually miles / hour * I think *. Can't find too much more detail on that though.....
Thanks for the inf - I had a look at the site - I think they might be the right size but none of the preprinted scales match up - you would have to do a "snip" job or use the separate labels - neither of which are gonna look very good or last very long, maybe?
Not sure if the other item is for a rotating cable or electrical cable - the DT has an electronic pulse driven speedo - I have emailed 2 companies who do electronic convertors - but not expecting much success.
I'm still thinking of paying the money and fitting the Striker electronic dash - just need to check if one of the magnetic bolts for the front disc will actually fit - don't fancy aralditing a little magnet anywhere!
Anyway, you should be riding not typing - first day of ownership!
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Picked up the bike yesterday and I am happy, it is so much faster than my 125 and I think should keep me safer.
The only 2 things that I think I will have to change are
1. The screen - it is just too low for me and pushes the air directly into my face rather than over my head. I think I would even be better off with no screen!
2. The speedo - I may get used to this being in km/hour but it isn't going to well at the moment.
woodbar, other than the top of the screen being in your line of sight how is your Givi screen? Do you have any photos of it on the bike? Also, how are you cutting the screen down?
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woodbar, other than the top of the screen being in your line of sight how is your Givi screen? Do you have any photos of it on the bike? Also, how are you cutting the screen down?
Glad your pleased with the DT - I know exactly what you mean with the screen
The Givi screen is a HUGE improvement not only because it is taller but, I believe, because it is wider at the base and channels the air from the top edge of the bodywork away from you. I think the original screen was designed to look good rather than for efficiency!
I made my longest trip so far yesterday, just to really try the screen, and it was much more comfortable, relaxed and FAR less noisy than before - I really enjoyed the 75 mile trip whereas before I was getting tired of the buffeting and wind noise after 20 miles or so. I can also hear the engine and exhaust note very clearly now.
There is a picture of the screen on the bike on the Givi site but it is not a very good one - not "full length" - I will try and take a couple of shots later today/tomorrow to give you a better idea if I can (things a bit hectic here).
As far as trimming the top - I have seen a couple of posts somewhere where others have cut the top off screens so I will have to do a search for them. As you are a bit taller than me you may not need to do this! On my ride yesterday I tried several times to "stretch up" a bit and I think I can get away with about 2" shorter without making too much difference - the only "unknown" is that this will decrease the amount of "forward" curve at the top of the screen so may have more effect than me just moving my head up a couple of inches!
I've emailed Trail Tech a few questions about the Striker digital dashboard to see if I can fit it successfully to the DT - if so I think I may go down that route (they also do a Vector version which is cheaper but does not show battery volts etc.) I definitely need a legible mph speedo and Kymco UK are just not interested - I think the problem is that they probably import the generic Europe version at the moment - if they ask for any change (MPH main scale) then that would be a "special" and their "landed" cost would rise - evrything comes down to margins! (Excessive in some cases?)
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Photos of the Givi D294ST on the DT - excuse the quality - the bike is still dirty from yesterdays ride and black and white is not a good subject in bright sunlight!
(http://photos.woodbar.123mail.org/DT300i/DT%20f1.gif)
(http://photos.woodbar.123mail.org/DT300i/DT%20s1.gif)
(http://photos.woodbar.123mail.org/DT300i/DT%20d1.gif)
First time I have tried this so I hope it's OK
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Looks great, mine will be here this week. That is not dirty, You can hardly see the colour of mine for all the bugs after the last couple of days of riding.
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Looks great, mine will be here this week. That is not dirty, You can hardly see the colour of mine for all the bugs after the last couple of days of riding.
Mind how you transfer the bottom oval Kymco fixing - you need to put some spacers on to get the screws to tighten up - I think Givi should have supplied some - I have emailed them and, surprise, surprise, no reply - why do I expect this lack of response to be normal!
I am hoping to get my Kappa K35 box and Givi SR92M rack (lets hope this includes all the fittings) on Wed/Thu - IF Givi has got the rack from Italy - it seems nobody wants to keep stock on the shelf.
I will post pictures of this when it's on - if anyone is interested of course.
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the bike is still dirty from yesterdays ride
The bike looks great! Thank you for the photos.
The screen does look a lot bigger than the original but like you I really do need something to make the wind and noise a little more pleasant. How much did you pay for the screen?
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It is a bit too tal for me, 3-4" higher would do it and 4 is pushing it for me. The hand wind protection would be great for when it gets colder. I may though get one and cut it down. My main concern would be how does it effect top speed, crusing RPM and of course MPG.
An adjustable windsceen would be optimal, but here is to wishing..............
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Putting a tall screen on my 125 increased both speed and milage as it got the wind off me. I am expecting the same here. Mine is in transit now so hope to see it this week. After our mail strike, it is taking for ever for things to get here.
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I will let you know when mine arrives in Aust but mine comes with ABS, adjustable windshield, under seat fits 2 full helmets not sure on tyre pressure check or front and rear brakes connect but will soon find out paid $7490 + $500 for color!
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I will let you know when mine arrives in Aust but mine comes with ABS, adjustable windshield, under seat fits 2 full helmets not sure on tyre pressure check or front and rear brakes connect but will soon find out paid $7490 + $500 for color!
I hope your new machine comes with everything you are expecting and you are not disappointed by any mis-information as I, and others, have been.
The bike looks great! Thank you for the photos.
The screen does look a lot bigger than the original but like you I really do need something to make the wind and noise a little more pleasant. How much did you pay for the screen?
I paid £107 for the screen - got free carriage as it was Givi - but see my concerns regarding my supplier in an earlier post.
I am still very concerned about the poor fitting on the lower front fixing point - when anyone else fits one can you let us have your thoughts - I have still not had a response from Givi.
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I'm also interested in the Givi screen. It does look good.
So far I have not been on the HW and have not had any issues with the wind. (6' and 32" inseam)
My main concern is my hands. They do go numb quick and the more protected they are the better it would be.
Though the Givi screen is wider, it does not seem to completely cover the handlebars ???
Would love to hear reviews on this aspect of the screen.
When I rode 25 yrs ago, my bike had those dirt bike handle protectors, would be great if I could find something similar now...
Will for now look for an extra set of gloves...
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My main concern is my hands. They do go numb quick and the more protected they are the better it would be.
Though the Givi screen is wider, it does not seem to completely cover the handlebars ???
Would love to hear reviews on this aspect of the screen.
Your right it does not cover the handlebars - I think that would make it TOO big!
I can tell you that there is much less buffeting around your arms/shoulders with this screen fitted and I did notice that I did not get any squashed bugs on my gloves during my extended ride the other day (they were plastered all over the screen & bodywork) - so I can only assume the air is getting diverted away from the bars/grips by the extra width lower section.
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Wind deversion around the hands and arms is nice but again at what cost? I am lucky so far here, with my V65 the hands go numb in 5 minutes or less but I ahve not had a numbness issue yet with the bike. Thid is one of the reasons I love the bike............
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Wind deversion around the hands and arms is nice but again at what cost?
I know you expressed a concern about performance and mpg etc. - well I can only say I did not notice any difference in performance but that could be because I was enjoying the ride so much more!
AS far as mpg goes I got 84.5 and 81mpg for the last 2 fills - going down as the wrist twists further now it's getting run in. The last fill was immediately before I fitted the Givi screen so I will be interested to see what the next result is - trouble is I have a dose of "man-flu" at the moment so I will not be out on it for a few days!
Will use the time to fit my topbox/rack which I am promised I will get tomorrow - like the the screen, nearly 2 weeks longer than I was told and both delays were down to Givi UK who don't seem to actually stock anything for the DT.
A couple of weeks ago I converted the stop/tail bulb to a tower LED (red) the result is pretty good and I have now fitted an LED brake light modulator which gives a sort of strobe effect to the stop light at first application of the brakes - this is quite attention grabbing for any driver behind that is only looking at the cars in front of you because we all know bikes are invisible!
Have a look at http://www.bikevis.com/motorcycle-led-brake-light-modulators.html (http://www.bikevis.com/motorcycle-led-brake-light-modulators.html) which will explain it all. I am not sure this is legal for the UK (LED conversion OR modulator) but if it stops someone trying to rearrange the rear end of the bike.......... I will take the risk. No I have absolutely NO connection with the site - just think it's a useful product.
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I have seen those on bikes but primarilly on the secondary brake light from say the top box. I guess this makes them legal, not sure though.
As far as a box I am wondering if that too will efect milage. With my overly large profile a small box may hav e little effect but I really want a E55 for the storage capacity.............
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Hurray - just had a phone call - box and rack dispatched today!
I think that for the UK, LED lights are only legal if they are OEM so retro fit might be dodgy. When I fitted the modulator I did a bit of "overkill" wiring (cause it was a pain to get at the bits I needed) so I now have an extra 4 way multiplug connector available just in front of the battery/fusebox which has the following signals for future expansion - stop/tail/ground/strobed stop. I was very pleased to find that the correct style multiplug connectors are readily available.
I was not sure what size of box to go for but I only really need it for helmet storage (I hate carrying the things) - my thoughts being that while I am shopping the helmet is in the box and when I have finished the helmet comes out and the shopping goes in! I thought the 26 or 30litre sizes would look a bit small but did not want a suitcase perched on the back - so decided the 35l was middle of the road. I hope it will be within the "wind" profile of the Givi screen (and me!) so not make too much difference to the drag factor. Not sure about side-winds though - I shall have to wait and see.
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The suprebrightled site sells DOT certified lights so in the USA that is not an issue. Probability is the UK is the same with certifications or at least similar. As far as tail and turn USA needs proper functionality and location along with the DOT approval for light output.
This I believe is why the flasher is not legal in the USA as a primary light as it gives the appearance of pulsing the brakes rather than their true realtime application. As a secondary signal they are fine. People I think use them as primary too but personally I wouldn't as while it drwas attention it sends a signal to the drive benind you at first that the brakes haven't been fully applied at a sustained rate.
While this is fine durring casual riding and light brake application if I have to go hard, fast and heavy on the brakes I want the guy behind me to know that and not see a flash thinking I may have let off the brakes....................
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Yes I take your point on the possible confusion - but this is a fast modulator specifically for LED - it has a flash rate of 10Hz for 1.5 secs - I don't think anyone could imagine you can go on and off the brakes that quick.
On the other hand they might think you've got a dodgy brake switch!
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That isn't as bad as the ones I have seen that pulse for about 0.5 sec on then 0.5 off then 0.4 on and off reducing to like a solid on etc. when I actually first saw one I thought exactly as I've explained, they we pulsing the brakes. Fortunately they were just casual braking at first but my first though once I realized what it was went to an emergency braking situation. Waht really made it confusing is the bike was infront of a car that was in front of me and I at first could only see this light action on the top box as the normal brake light was blocked by the car in front.
Yes I drive trying to monitor all brake lights for at least 12 seconds of travel in front of me and further if possible. Although maybe the side benefit to the rider is not knowing what was up at first I actually backed off a bit. If I ever determine there is something unknown or confusing in front of me I always back off. The detriment though is then other drivers fly by me racing uyp to the cyclist that are no where near as intent on the riders protection as I am.
Still personally I would rather have this type of light flashing in a top box or added light along with a standard tail/brake light. Get the attention but also properly inform of the bikes action.......................
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while it draws attention it sends a signal to the drive benind you at first that the brakes haven't been fully applied at a sustained rate.
if I have to go hard, fast and heavy on the brakes I want the guy behind me to know that and not see a flash thinking I may have let off the brakes....................
I'm interested in the flashers as well and am doing some research.
I was the other day behind a Mercedes and noticed the alerting effect it had on me.
it's actually pernitted as ESS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_lighting#Emergency_Stop_Signal_.28ESS.29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_lighting#Emergency_Stop_Signal_.28ESS.29)
Which is the opposite of what you described. For casual braking it should go on solid, but for hard braking you get the attention grabbing flashes.
I haven't seen an aftermarket flash kit that is motion sensitive yet.
I like the kits that at least refrain from reflashing if you let go off the brake shortly.
I might try this one: http://www.3rdbrakeflasher.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65&products_id=181&zenid=dacf97ec8a795ce85dcbbd536a5f6b31 (http://www.3rdbrakeflasher.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65&products_id=181&zenid=dacf97ec8a795ce85dcbbd536a5f6b31)
I think 3 or 4 flashes with the 15 sec refrain cycle should work, without being obnoxious.
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I'm interested in the flashers as well and am doing some research.
I was the other day behind a Mercedes and noticed the alerting effect it had on me.
it's actually pernitted as ESS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_lighting#Emergency_Stop_Signal_.28ESS.29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_lighting#Emergency_Stop_Signal_.28ESS.29)
Which is the opposite of what you described. For casual braking it should go on solid, but for hard braking you get the attention grabbing flashes.
I haven't seen an aftermarket flash kit that is motion sensitive yet.
I like the kits that at least refrain from reflashing if you let go off the brake shortly.
I might try this one: http://www.3rdbrakeflasher.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65&products_id=181&zenid=dacf97ec8a795ce85dcbbd536a5f6b31 (http://www.3rdbrakeflasher.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65&products_id=181&zenid=dacf97ec8a795ce85dcbbd536a5f6b31)
I think 3 or 4 flashes with the 15 sec refrain cycle should work, without being obnoxious.
Right, as a "THIRD" or extra brake light flasher (as per the linked item) it is legal in all 50 states. As I mentioned I would like this on a top box without a doubt...........
Edit; I am not sure how other countries regulate stop lights so it may differ from every location..................
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That's the trouble with all the differing legislation - it can be pretty hard to find out what is legal.
I am pleased with the modulator - it gives 15 strobes in the space of 1.5 seconds on first application (pretty fast) - if you reapply the brakes within 10 seconds it just comes on solid.
Now I have the top box fitted I may add some auxilliary rear LEDs which I can also add to the modulator output to give a stop/tail light function - there is a selectable option on the unit which will give 30% brightness with the brakes off and 100% with the brakes on - have seen it in action and is quite impressive. It obviously means that a single LED (or array) can have the dual function.
The site I got the modulator from also do a motion sensed device - but this is designed to give a hazard flasher function under emergency braking which, strangely enough, IS legal in the UK and EU because several cars on sale I know have this fitted OEM.
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IMHO one thing is the same, with all people after a period of time, driving becomes an auto function. We essentially can do it in our sleep. once it becomes an auto function you need to have expected signals.
Attention grabers are great for taking someone driving in the auto mode to bring the driving function back to primary attention but it takes time, even if it is measured in miliseconds, before they then realize the function. I would rather send the signal to get their foot off the gas and on the brake and then also wake them up.
Again for casual braking waking them up first is fine, my concern here is hard braking where people need to get to their brakes ASAP and miliseconds could become a major difference in the end result....................