KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 50cc => Super 9 => Topic started by: Areomyst on December 07, 2008, 04:57:34 AM
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I wanted to share my Super9 build with you guys!
The original topic can be found here:
http://www.scooterinvasion.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=813
So far, there's a LOT more to do, but here are some pictures:
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/IMG_0705.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/bodyteardown/IMG_0878.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/bodyteardown/IMG_0867.JPG)
(http://[img]http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/engineteardown/IMG_0895.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/engineteardown/IMG_0898.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/waterpump/IMG_0904.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/waterpump/IMG_0928.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/waterpump/IMG_0929.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/waterpump/IMG_0943.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/cvtcover/IMG_0962.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/block/IMG_0968.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/block/IMG_1052.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/block/IMG_1055.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/block/IMG_1073.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/block/IMG_1074.JPG)
Unfortunately, this project has been ongoing now for a couple of months. I'm very busy and can't always find time to work on my beloved bike. I own 3 Kymco scooters, one Honda, and a vintage Vespa, and I love 'em!
I hope that this weekend I can get some more work done on my block, and hopefully begin my painting work soon too.
Cheers!
~Josh
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I ordered an oversized manifold for a Piaggio engine from a friend in Holland. Should be here soon. When I get it, I'll modify the original inlet (that I've turned into a plate) so that it fits well:
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/floorplate/IMG_2330.JPG)
I also did a little work on my floorboard tonight, but it took forever because I don't really have the right kind of tools for cutting metal.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/floorplate/IMG_2318.JPG)
I first made some cardboard templates.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/floorplate/IMG_2320.JPG)
Then traced it out on the back side of the diamond plate.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/floorplate/IMG_2321.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/floorplate/IMG_2322.JPG)
Then I spent forever cutting the metal with my air saw, hack saw, and air cut-off wheel. Cut the easy spots with the hacksaw, because that's fastest and easy. Then I used the cut off wheel to score the plate most of the way through... a very slow process! Then the metal was thin enough to make quick work of the remaining cuts with the airsaw with a bi-metal blade mounted.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/floorplate/IMG_2325.JPG)
Got one side cut out, but still need to clean up the edges and such. I'll do the other side tomorrow!
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/floorplate/IMG_2329.JPG)
I think my engine is getting mad at me... :D
OH! Something else important got here today:
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/floorplate/IMG_2334.JPG)
My very own copy of StepVino's programs. :) I had a few of the older versions, but I wanted the latest and I wanted to show my support for what he's done! $27 on eBay can't go wrong guys. Give it a whirl. :) I'll be using this when I'm tuning my Malossi cylinder. www.porting-programs.com to download, I got mine on eBay and had the CD mailed to me for a little bit more money.
Cheers!
~Josh
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Last night I primed and painted my block with engine enamel. Seems like it's going to be pretty nice! Checked in on the paint, it seems to have dried up just fine. I couldn't help myself, I had to do a small mockup of the engine:
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/block/IMG_2356.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/block/IMG_2359.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/block/IMG_2360.JPG)
~Josh
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Areomyst-
Keep it up! I'm right down the street in Raleigh... If I keep seein' your nice work all over the 'net, I'm gunna have to get my ride over to you in Mebane.
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Hey, thanks!
I've been working pretty hard on this bike when I have the time to. With a family of 5 spare time doesn't come often. Let me know if/when you wanna come out, I'll be more than happy to give you the "grand tour" of my 12x20 garage. ;) It's nice to hear from other local scooterists!
I got my manifold in the other day, but it's too small. I'm going to see about getting a bigger one for my OKO carb... If it comes down to it I may try to use a Dellorto 24mm or something similar, but at this point I'm not sure. 24mm is pretty large for a setup like mine, but it's what I have and I'm trying to build this bike on a budget, believe it or not. :) All the polishing, paint, porting etc is done by me.
~Josh
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Ya, I've been following your work for a while now. I first noticed you when I read the story that has led up to what you're doing now, with your own shop. You should call TLC or the DISCOVERY CHANNEL about a show to replace AMERICAN CHOPPER... maybe CAROLINA SCOOTER, er something.
I am thinking of having some porting done, so I'll let you know. I'm also interested to see what you find out about your intake. I have looked for the 100cc top boy intake, but to no avail. Just going to hone out the stock one for now.
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Thanks again for the compliments getonit. :)
I'm working on getting a Hebo manifold for a Piaggio to use with the Super 9. I'll have to make a custom plate to adapt it, but it's not a big deal. I've got some new porting tools coming soon also, so that will make it easier for me to tune the cylinder.
~Josh
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Today I decided to do some more engine work. I've decided to switch from the Malossi cast-iron cylinder to an Airsal aluminum one.
To begin with, I did a little more work on my carters:
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/block/IMG_2577.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/block/IMG_2578.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/block/IMG_2579.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/block/IMG_2580.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/block/IMG_2582.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/block/IMG_2584.JPG)
I took a photo of my stock Kymco block from a People 50 to compare the new porting.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/block/IMG_2585.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/block/IMG_2600.JPG)
Transfers @ cylinder base on a untuned Airsal T6.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/block/IMG_2601.JPG)
I still have some more work to do on this to get better symmetry in the transfer tunnels. It's been a long day though, and I'm ready to relax. Tomorrow I will continue.
I will begin modifying the ports after I get the crankshaft back in. I'm looking forward to reviewing Walter's software!
~Josh
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(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/block/IMG_2638.JPG)
Got my variator from scootertrog! Thanks again for everything my friend. :D
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/block/IMG_2639.JPG)
I might see if I can use this Metrakit clutch. It may be too small, but when I dig my clutch bell out of the boxes, I'm going to have a look.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/block/IMG_2641.JPG)
New crankshaft bearings in.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/block/IMG_2643.JPG)
Crank installed.
I have some more nice photos of the block actually put back together with the seals in, but my wife wanted me to change the camera settings and the photos are some kind of ridiculous size. I'll have to re-size them later on. Everything went together quite smoothly, and I have the cylinder mounted on the studs to begin measuring the engine. It started raining, so I had to stop early... Couldn't leave 5 other scooters out in the rain in good concise.
Slowly but surely getting there. :)
~Josh
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I haven't been updating here much as there doesn't seem to be as much interest in the bike here, but I figured I'd post up a couple of updated photos. I have a Motoforce R6 shock, Stage 6 gearset, and SSP adjustable riser that should arrive in the mail next week. I picked up some new spray guns and will be painting the body Arctic White. I'm debating on either polishing or powdercoating the wheels. Not sure which I want to do yet. Perhaps a combination of the two would look good.
Latest cosmetic changes to the engine, are the polished manifold, powedercoated carburetor, polished carb bowl, and powdercoated cylinder head.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/block/IMG_0589.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/block/IMG_0590.JPG)
Still have to polish the carb cap, and thinking about the outside of the cylinder. Will wait on the cylinder though... I need to do more important stuff to it first. :twisted:
~Josh
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I've got some parts in, but I haven't had time to do anything with them. Here are some photos:
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/block/IMG_0863.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/block/IMG_0864.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/block/IMG_0867.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/block/IMG_0866.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/block/IMG_0869.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/block/IMG_0870.JPG)
The adjustable risers aren't going to work without modification. I think I've decided that a slightly lower bike wouldn't hurt anyway. I'm going to go back and order some more risers just for "R&D" purposes. ;)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/block/IMG_0871.JPG)
Stage 6 17/51 primary gearset.
Hopefully some "play time" will come soon. My Vespa started getting rusty again, so I had to work more on that and I'm really trying hard to get it dressed in primer tonight, so I can't play with the Super 9 at the moment.
~Josh
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Wow. I admire your commitment. Thats a way cool rebuild. Your obviously very talented or just not scared to try. Post some new pix. I have an orange 05 s9 "Love It!". Good job man.
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Thanks Dawsman. :)
I haven't been able to work on the scooter much at all lately. I have a very busy life and when I do get some downtime I like to see if I can't catch a glimpse of my baby girl learning to walk! :D
I did order an inner rotor ignition for the bike. I'm going to have to make a custom stator plate to mount it though, because the ignition is for a Minarelli engine.
I also have a spare engine in the works that I'll use for the street. The one in the photos is going to be the race build. I'm thinking that on the street cylinder I'll just go with a Malossi cast-iron cylinder as I have one more laying around. I haven't really decided on that one yet.
Also, I've gotten my feet wet with some paint work. I'm confident now that I can get the bodywork painted up and looking great! I may even take the Arctic white back (lacquer) and see if I can't find some kind of nice pearl urethane or something. Note to self: get better ventilation in the shop for paint work, and cover stuff with plastic too!
~Josh
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Here's a photo of the ignition:
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg82/speedfreak76/parts005.jpg)
Also, a note for anyone out there considering the Stage 6 gearset that I showed a photo of. It DOES NOT work on the LC Super 9 without machine work! I recommend the Malossi instead as the Stage 6 set is made for the air-cooled engines. That gearset should work in your AC Super 9, Cobra Racer, Vitality 2-stroke, etc.
Cheers!
~Josh
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Hey Josh, MUUUCH RESPECT!!! I started browsing your site the other day, and was VERY impressed w/ the level of, expertise and, experience you "super tuners" share. Here's something that may help w/ your powder coating vs polishing. They have clear powder coat that will make your BEAUTIFUL work, and MANY hours last. I will speak for myself in saying I would love to see this scoot when done! Ps. the 2 BEST paints I have EVER used are AWL GRIP, and NASON. They are both 2 part urethane, and flow out like no other paints on the market. Cure time is slow compared to others but the finish will appear "wet" for several years. In fact both recommend you do NOT wax for at least 6 months. There is NO color polishing, wet sanding, buffing, and they are BULLET PROOF! Much respect!!!
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Hey, thanks for the compliments!
I've got some of that high temp clear powdercoat, but I haven't used it yet. I wasn't sure if it would make my polish jobs dull or not. I wouldn't mind if it was just a little dull though. It beats the super high maintainence of polished aluminum.
Here's a rear rack that I polished:
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/s9rearrack/IMG_1088.JPG)
I'll have to look into those paints! I want something that's really nice for this bike.
Thanks a bunch,
~Josh
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hey where did you buy the gear from?
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hey where did you buy the gear from?
I ordered it from Scootercraft.com. Turns out, that gearset only fits the air-cooled Super 9. I'll have to stick with the Malossi gears afterall.
~Josh
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I WONDER WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE NOW
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Me too!
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Eh, it looks about the same. Sadly, I haven't had any time to really work on this. I'm too busy working on everyone else's bikes.
I made my fixture last year, and forgot to post up photos of it! Somewhere I've got a photo of the completed fixture with the cylinder on the lathe...
I'm getting ready to cut the base of the cylinder, then I'll ship it out to have the plating removed. From there, I'll port the cylinder, then send it back for new plating. :) I'm looking forward to this!
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/cylfix/Img_2929.jpg)
Nardini 1640 at the school. I'm currently looking at a 1680, but I don't have anywhere to put it yet... Shop needs to be bigger. This is my favorite lathe so far.
The instructor seemed pleased that I was interested in doing some outside work. My goal with my education in machining tech is to lean enough so that when I bring in my own machines I will be educated enough about them to move the machines in and get right to work. :) The instructor sometimes takes extra care to make sure I know some of the things that they don't have on the curriculum at the college - grinding my own form tools, laying out parts, and things like that. Everything's moving to CNC so they don't require all that. Most of the guys can't even run a machine without a DRO!
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/cylfix/Img_2935.jpg)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/cylfix/Img_2936.jpg)
The brass was expensive, but it's all they had in the size I needed. If I make another on, I'd like it to be a little wider OD than that. I was even thinking about putting some locating pins on the next fixture that would fit where the cylinder stud holes are - just an extra precaution against the cylinder turning on the fixture.
Here is what the engine looks like now:
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/block/IMG_0197.JPG)
The bushings that I painted over will be replaced.
~Josh
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A simple trick for a one of jug pin is go 1.5 thousands bigger on the dowel. Freeze the dowel, and heat the jug. When you are done pop the whole thing in the oven at 400 for 1/2 an hour, and the dowel being denser will fall out.
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..i like the barbed wire....that's red hott...
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..there's the radiator...
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WOW!!! I missed this thread. Vary nice I think that motor will bolt right in to the people frame ;D I think the ac model and the people are the same. WOW!!!
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...really????????
..that's Josh's s9 project..he moderates the scooterinvasion forum...
..he's areomyst here...
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Sorry guys, I haven't been checking in much lately. I've hardly had time to keep up with Scooterinvasion, let alone the forums I don't run. :)
The Super 9 engine will bolt on to the People frame, but the rear tire will not work, and the shock would hook up at a funny angle, so you would have a 16" front tire, and a 12" rear. The people 50 is basically the same engine, but it has a longer "swingarm" section of the left crankcase, allowing for the 16" wheel.
I got the electric waterpump in for my Super 9 a couple weeks ago. I'm really really hoping to have this project running by March. I've got a lot of really exciting things in the works for this bike still. I took a good look at the right side crankcase the other day to figure out exactly what I'm going to have to do to make the inner-rotor ignition that I have fit. A special plate will be required, but I will also have to mill some material off the crankcase because the flywheel is larger than the standard inner rotor because it is equipped for use with lights...
I did recently install the Stage 6 primary gearset. They required modification on the lathe to fit my liquid cooled bike...
In the past couple weeks, I built an air-cooled Super 9 (airsal 70cc), a Yamaha Zuma (Stage 6 70cc) and now I'm working on a china job that's getting teh works - carb, crank, cylinder, etc etc etc. Gotta love it.
Thanks for the kind words guys! Catcha later.
~Josh
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Hi, Josh. Where you been lately? What kind of scoot are you working on now?
I Love your Super 9, by the way...Got any recent pics of it??
~Rianna
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Hey there,
Actually, been working on an Air-Cooled Super 9 tonight. :) I haven't had much time to dedicate to my own Super 9 because I'm working on everyone else's scooters, but I'll be updating this thread soon with some new info.
Thank you for the kind words. :)
~Josh
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They say it's always the barber's son that needs a haircut.
Good to see ya, Josh.
Have a good night!
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sooooo, i'm going to ask a real dumb ? here ppl..... so the lc is better than the ac models of s9's???......any input is greatly appreciated..... ;).
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Dang, bat, if you've got your eye on L/C S9, and you get it before me, I'm gonna be sooo Jealous! :P :D
If I had the chance to get one and I could afford it I would jump on it for sure...
Another thing with the L/C S9, being they are no longer made here, they have that 'collector's item' type of value tacked on. Kymco has other L/C models, but are they as sporty looking as the S9?? If you're looking in the 50cc range then this is an awesome ride. These scoots can be great for racing...
I'll let other folks talk about the performance and longevity value of the liquid cooled engine, but if you find one and don't snatch it up you may later wish you had...
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damnitt man, waiting on a phone call about one actually.... a s9lc or a vitality 4t or a chinesse scoot
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Well, Damnit, Man...call 'em back, or email 'em back...lol. If you pick that chinese scoot over the L/C 2t S9 somebody oughtta kick your A$$!! :D ;) ;D
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well i just talked to the guy..it needs the plastic at the speedo, ignition, speedo cable, socket for front turn signals.. been painted black.. right year tho for sure.. :D ;) i wonder if its been hot at some point being painted, ignition gone.(said key broke off in switch, so just removed it,using cdi to start(idk)).. he wants $700... dam, i wish some others were here to chime in on this... its local too. ;). seems a bit much for no paperwork,etc......evrybody????.....everybody???........anybody else?... anybody?? ??? ??? :-\ :-\ ::) :D
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Don't know about these particular models but, in general, LC is gonna be better, faster, more dependable than AC. It won't have that drop off in performance when warmed up that you find with AC. Sounds like this one in question has had the sh_t run out of it though. >:( May be looking at major rebuild/repairs.
I've read threads here which all state the LC Super 9 is great, though.
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yeah he said this one runs like a champ; but the keys/ignition being gone and no sort of papers, painted over for that price may be iffy just for that fact... ;) well the speedo cable, not knowing the true miles kindof sux too... :D. said wouldnt take less..
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Well dang...sounds like it could take hundreds of $$ and some hassles on that one. I Hate that 'broken speedo' thingy...ya just never know...could be true, could be a lie...Was it the year(s) with the recall for that engine mount?? The S9 model is a good one, but not sure about this one...:(
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Batman,
I've got an LC Super 9 in stock that needs crank bearings, waterpump, and top end rebuild I've got the parts to fix it. It has a Next-R exhaust. Everything else works if I remember correctly. If the owner does not pick it up by January 1st, it's going up for sale.
I also have a 2007 Aprilia SR50 with (please sit down) 15,000 miles (not kilometers) on it. Still gotta fix it though. Might be worth your drive if I get it wrapped up. ;)
$700 for a scooter of questionable origin is not a good deal at all.
Anyway, not trying to spam it up, but thought I'd let you know. :( Shoot me an e-mail or give me a call if I can help.
~Josh
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thebatman would look good on either one of those scoots! I do wonder if that SR50 is the one with the fuel injection. I hope he sees this soon.
Dang, Josh, you work too much! :D Hope you have a nice holiday.
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Yeah, it's the injected version with the Morini engine. It had a crack in the oil line, but everything in the engine looks good. I'm going to have a closer look at it this upcoming week.
Today I finished an 80cc build on a Vespa LX50, and put a performance camshaft in as well.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mcarthurlx50/80cclx1.jpg)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mcarthurlx50/80cclx2.jpg)
The scooter performed off the line very well, and steadily climbed up to about an indicated 49 mph on a flat. Up hill it would maintain the mid 30's well enough, and down hill it would peg the speedo. The setup was:
Malossi 80cc cylinder kit
Malossi Camshaft
Naraku 82 main jet
I should have taken more photos - but oh well. Camera has been goofy lately, and stopping to take photos all the time really slows things down. :)
~Josh
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hi, i'm a newbe. i recently brought an 08 super 9. i would like to derestrict it. it's goes about 40 mph now. not trying to do anything crazy with it. just wants to derestrict, so it's free to go as fast as it was meant to go stock. anyway, never worked with a scooter before. so, pictures and details explanations would greatly helped. sorry, about being ignorant about the subject in advance, but if the project is too hard, i'm willing to take it to a mechanics to have it 'fix.'
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I'm planning on a rebuild on my '04 S9. Any advice? Big bore kit, pipe etc.
It will be a project and since we live in Alabama, no restrictions!
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Areomyst isnt a full time member here these days, he has hit the busy season again.. Some of us left here cause of certain things. You should start your very own s9 thread in the s9 board. Cloud 9 has been a ongoing project for quite awhile now
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Areomyst isnt a full time member here these days, he has hit the busy season again.. Some of us left here cause of certain things. You should start your very own s9 thread in the s9 board. Cloud 9 has been a ongoing project for quite awhile now
Quite true. Until lately, I haven't even had much time to spend on Scooter Invasion. I still pop over to Kymcoforum once in a while though.
I haven't made much progress on my own Super 9 - though I've done all kinds of stuff to lots and lots of other ones.
I got my handlebars on, and seat in, etc:
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/cloud9003.jpg)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/012112tsg0487.jpg)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/cloud9expressbajaj/cloud9expressbajaj034.jpg)
~Josh
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Glad to see it coming to life J. I had forgotten this thread was here. Where do you get the adapter for the handle bars? I am building a Ruckus wanna be (50mm jug, stripped down Verucci 4t). I considered a bicycle wedge type, but just for a moment.
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I got my adapter from ScooterCraft (RIP dudes!). I had to machine it (bore the ID) to make it fit. Quick and easy on my friend's lathe... if he didn't let me use all his machines when I needed them, this project wouldn't have made it.
I have these posted on Scooter Invasion also, but wanted to share the dyno chart here too.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/cloud91.jpg)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/cloud9mph.jpg)
The second run (green line) was darned close to 90MPH!
Still have a good bit of tuning to do, and a few more parts to get for the bike. It's going to be a few weeks before I get going on it seriously again. :)
~Josh
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I don't understand the torque... How is it soo much lower than the Hp? Is that the cvt/gearing doing that?
I couldn't make out the chart at all on your site. For some reason I have always had a 1/3rd width there. Thanks for posting it here so we could see. There is also some talk of a road trip for a couple of the guys to see Carabelle in August. I'd sure like to buy some dyno time as I'd maybe head up your way to trailer a couple scoots down here so it would be nothing to bring mine for the ride!
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Oh hell... One more question.... Would a riders weight change the dyno result or is that figured in the software? I know less than nothing about running a dyno.
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I don't understand the torque... How is it soo much lower than the Hp? Is that the cvt/gearing doing that?
I couldn't make out the chart at all on your site. For some reason I have always had a 1/3rd width there. Thanks for posting it here so we could see. There is also some talk of a road trip for a couple of the guys to see Carabelle in August. I'd sure like to buy some dyno time as I'd maybe head up your way to trailer a couple scoots down here so it would be nothing to bring mine for the ride!
CVT seems to do interesting things to torque. There are torque spikes at the very beginning of a run, but since this is so high in the RPM range, you can't see the torque/HP intersect at 5252 RPM - my clutch isn't even engaged then so it's not recording that data as part of the run. I'm still learning a lot about the dyno myself. It's changing the way I do a few things in here. :)
The forum automagically re-sizes photos. If you click on a photo, it's full screen.
If you come up in August, stop on in!
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(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/tng2012/0tng2012062.jpg)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/tng2012/0tng2012063.jpg)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/tng2012/0tng2012064.jpg)
Gotta get some bodywork on it so it looks a little more innocent. ;)
~Josh
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WOW! Now THAT is impressive!
I LOVE it the way it sits!
I'm gonna have to mess with my browser settings on your site. The picts. stay small, and mt screen is a strip down the center?? ?? ?? I'll mess with it tonight. There is alot I can't see.
Bad ass bike Bro! Bad ass.
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Damnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!
That is one sick machine. I would love to have a LC engine, AC hates me I think. I think I just drooled on my friends keyboard, 2 thumbs up!
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...i rode an ac that was tuned pretty well...
..hit over 50 indicated in town...
..that's STILL a strong frikin engine...
:o
..wipe that sh** up when you leave..lmao!!
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Had a good night with DirtyD while we both tuned our bikes getting ready for the race tomorrow.
Here's a short clip of the scooter running. After making this video, (Thanks for recording DirtyD!) I changed my clutch springs to get a bit better launch. I wish I had more time for more tuning, but that's how it goes sometimes.
Cloud 9 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRw-PMpsshQ#)
Ciao!
~Josh
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Sweet! Good luck!
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Kymco Super 9 vs GY6 Drag Race (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiNoSziZqwQ#)
That was my best run. I had a lot of fun, as did all the guys that came out. Will certainly do it again.
~Josh
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..thatsa quick s9 josh!!!
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The sound is really lovely (and damn that is a quck beast!)
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Thanks guys! It was a lot of fun to run my scooter out there. I'm going to try some lighter weights, as it looks like my weights are a tad too heavy, and I'm also going back to the machine shop to do some more work on the modular head and tighten up the squish clearance. I think this bike can run mid 10's or better in the 8th.
It can be quicker, no doubt.
~Josh
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It is an addiction... Like power boat racers, Always ONE more knot. Always! Are you going to widen the squish or adjust what you have?
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It is an addiction... Like power boat racers, Always ONE more knot. Always! Are you going to widen the squish or adjust what you have?
I'm going to narrow the squish band some, and also lower the clearance. I will re-measure the compression ratio while I'm in there. A result of the lower clearance will be lower port timings as I'll be turning material off of the base of the cylinder, so some porting to compensate may be in order, but I will first try it without the extra porting. The angles of the ports are already quite conductive to a high-revving cylinder. I've got a good bit more power lurking in this setup, and needs to squeeze it out. ;)
~Josh
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That's almost scary... You're gonna wind up running Nitro in a year or so...
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Extra goodies. Racing Planet has this new intake manifold adapter out that lets you use any Minarelli manifold! Now it's (finally) a much shorter manifold. I haven't done extensive testing yet, but it looks like about .80 HP increase over the MHR one! Part numbers are NK201.17 and IP13888.
The carb doesn't seem to mind the extreme angle. I may adjust the float a little.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/nkmanifold1.jpg)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/nkmanifold2.jpg)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/nkmanifold3.jpg)
It's louder. I still need to do blocked CVT runs before and after, but I don't have much time at the moment. I will do these things before the next track day though. I'm hoping to go out for a Test and Tune on the 15th.
~Josh
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Thats an interesting angle with that float, ha I always spend 15 minutes trying to level mine out. Seems to be in vain haa
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That bike is really just run on a flat track. As long as the tank/filter can keep up the angle is not an issue. On a street ride it may be a different story.
J. In your research did you come across any Dyno software that is just BASIC? Something that can be rigged up at home? I think I do not understand enough about it but am HOPING to find something I can build from.
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http://performancetrends.com/DataMitePricesOnly.htm#Package_Prices (http://performancetrends.com/DataMitePricesOnly.htm#Package_Prices)
I don't think you can get any simpler than the Performance Trends DataMite Mini USB. It's cheap, the standard software will give you enough to do most things, etc... I have the pro inertia package on my dyno, but it's more than I am likely to need.
Prices for DAQ hardware/software for dynos start at $499. Awful cheap considering all else... I did a LOT of research and was getting ready to build my own dyno (hand it pretty much planned out) and then I found the Dynojet that I have today. The dyno I bought cost me less than it was going to take to build the roller. I'm sure that where you are at, there are more machine shops ready to service large diameter rollers and such, with all the marine businesses in the area.
Look here also:
http://sportdevices.co.uk/dyno/sp1.htm (http://sportdevices.co.uk/dyno/sp1.htm) - very very popular.
~Josh
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I've seen the Gforce kits... One step above a good butt dyno IMHO. I was thinking a roller was the easy part. The software is the scary part.
Thanks... I'll let you know what pans out.
DataMite description
A useful and highly customizable data extraction tool which can quickly filter, print and export data
DataMite is using a sophisticated visual sql query builder the data can be manipulated in a any way wanted. DataMite is a useful and customizable data extraction application that is able to filter, print and export data to multiple file formats The built-in export and report builders are very easy to use yet powerful.
Ever struggled with a document where all the data you needed was there but you couldn't extract it to create your own report? DataMite report-mining and data translation tool allow you to do just this without requiring any programming, it's all visual.
DataMite can simplify your life, here are some examples where it has been used saving precious time to users:
Translate EDI ANSI X12 files to Microsoft Access database. It all runs transparently without the user's intervention. DataMite can be automated via multiple command line parameters.
Several XML files contained PO information that need to be converted to a comma-delimited text file (CSV).
Step one... Learn what it is. Check
Step two... Find a bootleg copy Haaa Haaa just kidding. Check
Step three Where can I get a roller? Landscape roller Check
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Well! Time for more show & tell.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/IMG_0309.JPG)
I got all my bodywork out and ready for paint. Mike from Street Scene will be picking them up soon and giving them his magic touch. I was going to paint 'em myself, but I realize that I simply can't do everything as busy as I am. Mike's a good dude, and he's a hardcore scooter guy too. I'm looking forward to the end result! It's going to be all white. Leaves plenty of room for decals to stand out...
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/IMG_0296.JPG)
Doing a couple of tests with the new manifold. I like it! I'm going to try using the longer rubber section and a more rounded and shorter bellmouth. The bellmouth should be in next week.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/IMG_0305.JPG)
So, I figured I had a small head gasket leak during the races. The first thing I thought when I pulled the head was "Oh no, detonation!" but on closer inspection, it didn't look to be detonation at all, but rather it was where coolant hit the piston. At least, this is the best I can make of it.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/IMG_0306.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/IMG_0316.JPG)
Here's the culprit. With my Airsal cylinder, I had to fill in all the o-ring grooves on the cylinder so that I could use the Stage 6 modular head. Here you can clearly see the failure where an air pocket was present. Nonetheless, the scooter ran well at the track, with no breakdowns and on one of the last runs of the day I managed to run 11.086 seconds in the 1/8 mile.
The cylinder still looks pretty good, though the ports could use a little more work.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/IMG_0307.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/IMG_0313.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/IMG_0311.JPG)
Okay! So let's get to work on that head eh?
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/IMG_0312.JPG)
I was going to settle with this - a slightly narrower squish band. I had a hair up my tail I guess, and decided I wanted to try a toroidal combustion chamber.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/IMG_0317.JPG)
This is not the best shot, but you can see the tool that I used to cut the combustion chamber.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/IMG_0318.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/IMG_0319.JPG)
It's hard to tell in the photos, but there's a 12 degree positive squish angle that compliments the piston nicely. I'm somewhat worried that I may have lowered my compression ratio more than I wanted, but I will have to measure this later. There wasn't time for this at the machine shop tonight. I hate to "wing it" but that's what we had to do. No matter - I'm more or less guaranteed to learn something from this experiment, and I have extra "blanks" for the head if the results are undesirable.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/IMG_0321.JPG)
Since my old fixture didn't work too well, my very good friend Dan decided to sacrifice one of his expanding mandrels to adapt to my cylinder. He started with one that was slightly bigger than the bore, and then turned it down to 47.? mm.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/IMG_0322.JPG)
Now the base is turned a bit more, and the squish clearance is where I want it. The port timing is (of course) lower, but I will run it like this and note the results before raising the ports any more.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/IMG_0324.JPG)
Loosely bolted back together, and ready to be tightened up with new gaskets and re-installed. Let's get under 11 seconds now! :P Of course, a lot of the 1/8 mile time is on me, so I need to get a lot of practice.
Stay tuned!
~Josh
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You and Cloud 9 will be the Ussain Bolt of the 2 stroke world.
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That jug must make very feelable power. The ports look massive. The exhaust must be 1/3rd more area than my corsa.
I actually forgot you had a body for it. Alot of mighty nice work in that for sure. I drill em out w/ rocks, and pliers.
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Thanks guys!
Zombie, yeah it's been pretty heavily ported. The next time around the porting will be better. Here are some photos so you can sort-of see what the stock airsal ports looked like:
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/block/1/IMG_0977.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/cylinder/areomystcylinder03.jpg)
As far as the power, yes, it's quite strong, but I feel like it has a good ways to come.
~Josh
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WOW! Massive changes Bro! Now you got me thinking... again. Ow it hurts sooooo much. Are you using other maps to get your layout? I would be afraid to take that much material out without a proven map. BUT you have about 1000 times the experience w/ these engines. I guess it really does never end. One more hp...
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Well, it's been a while since I've been on Kymcoforum. I thought I'd pop in and give an update:
Well, last Sunday Daniel O, MrJoNeS and I went to the drag strip for our final passes of the season. Everyone did well, and we had some fun!
I thought I would share a photo of my 15 HP cylinder. Please keep in mind that this is a cylinder that I started porting years ago, so there are some things that I'm having to work around that I wouldn't do the same way today. The exhaust port has an "eyebrows" kind of shape to it. It's working well enough for me though, and the next things I want to do with my engine are to get a new clutch (I think I'm going to go with Dr. Pulley again), cut a new head, and do something about the ignition. I'm still using a stock CDI. If I can get my hands on an MSD 4217 I will.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/racescootersdec/racescootersdec019.jpg)So, here's the cylinder so far. More work needs to be done - especially with the transfers. I put this together in a hurry the day of the race, so I didn't make a port map of it, but I will do so before I do more work to it. As it sits, the durations are 194 and 126. I think I can squeeze a little more out of it with a higher exhaust, but I think I'm going to wait on that and re-work my combustion chamber first. It's nice to know that there's room to raise both transfers and exhaust though.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/racescootersdec/racescootersdec014.jpg)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/racescootersdec/racescootersdec015.jpg)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/racescootersdec/racescootersdec017.jpg)
Last time I had the engine apart, I noticed some scuffing on the bore in front of the exhaust bridge. I used a cratex abrasive to relieve the bridge a little, and also went the extra step and drilled a couple of holes in the piston. Please excuse the damage to the piston up at the top - remember, this cylinder came out of a garbage can some 6 years ago. :)
I have thought a long time about retiring this cylinder, but I refuse to do it until I am able to produce 18HP out of it. Someone told me it was impossible, so that's my goal before retiring this one, and starting over fresh. :)
After this, I managed my best ET of the season, which was 10.283 seconds in 1/8 mile. With some more CVT tuning I'm sure I can get this into the mid to high 9 second's range. With the head and clutch, I hope to be able to get the times down even more. Even still, I believe that this is a SLOW scooter compared to many of the high-end builds. I feel pretty good about how far I'm pushing this Airsal top end anyway. I'm still looking to squeeze more power out of this, and I'm sure I can do it.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/racescootersdec/2012scooterdragracedec020.jpg)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/racescootersdec/2012scooterdragracedec022.jpg)
The above photos are at the drag strip. The scooter still looks a mess after all this time. :) I've got the body work down at a local paint shop, and he's going to get to it when he has time. Looks like it'll be a while though - it's already been months. That's barter for you though. :)
Cheers!
~Josh
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...dang...long time josh...
..thats some good work...
..i wanna ride th cloud!!!
;D
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...dang...long time josh...
..thats some good work...
..i wanna ride th cloud!!!
;D
Thanks for the kind words sir! Keep an eye on our trackdays on scooterinvasion. If you come out, I'll be happy to let you give it a ride. I think you'll be impressed even though I call it "slow".
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..yes hell, i will!!!
..i been busier than a one-armed paper-hanger the last 6 months...
..i have 3 project scoots that i havn't even touched in forever....
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That's one hell of a ride and port job! Damn inspiring.
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That's one hell of a ride and port job! Damn inspiring.
Thanks. :) My port timings are still a little on the conservative side, but I'm taking it a little bit at a time, getting dyno charts and a few passes down the drag strip, and then porting and tuning a little more. It's hard to find time to work on my bike though, when I have everyone else's projects here to get done. :)
I can't wait to get the body work on the thing! It's more weight, but it should be more aerodynamic. Also, as I'm seeking a few sponsors for next year, I need to have places to "advertise" on the bike, and the barebones look doesn't cut it for that.
Cheers!
~Josh
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...what you doing for plastics???
..dont need much...aero the nose and, if you riding superman, some fairing in front of your legs..
8)
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...what you doing for plastics???
..dont need much...aero the nose and, if you riding superman, some fairing in front of your legs..
8)
Hah. I have a full set of plastics, I'm just waiting on my paint guy (friend) to get done with them. I'm not doing the "Superman" anymore. That was a silly mistake, and didn't work well. I'm getting the whole plastic set on the bike, as it will allow me plenty of "canvas" for decals. If anyone chooses to sponsor me, then I have to be able to get their decals or name out there as best I can. :)
~Josh
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updates my friend... that was an intresting read :)
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I spent the better part of the day taking the very rare luxury of working on my scooter.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/2/IMG_0863.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/2/IMG_0865.JPG)
So, the body panels have been kicking around for a while. My Ignitech programmable CDI has been in the toolbox for a long time also. My goal today, was to fix up my wiring harness for the new CDI, and at least get the CDI plugged in.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/2/IMG_0867.JPG)
I got the wiring for the Ignitech sorted, but it sure was ugly. I had originally slapped this wiring harness together trying to get ready for TNG 2012. It was quick, dirty, and it has served me well over the past year.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/2/IMG_0874.JPG)
Cleaned up a bit.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/2/IMG_0876.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/2/IMG_0879.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/2/IMG_0882.JPG)
I was pretty disapointed with myself when I chipped the paint when drilling the holes for the switches. Oh well... I might make up a little plate to go there eventually.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/2/IMG_0890.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/2/IMG_0891.JPG)
The seat looks kind of deflated huh? I ended up taking the foam out of it. I will re-do the seat at some point - I like the seating position that I get with the foam out, but I'd like it to look half way decent as well. :)
I hope to find time to begin tuning the ignition soon. We'll see!
~Josh
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I've got it running in the low 10's now, and have some new parts arriving soon. I'll be doing a few small upgrades before Twist N Gone 2013. Hopefully I can see this thing into the 9's.
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(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/ignitech/c9ignitech.jpg)
Before and during the programming of my ignition. I was unable to finish that night, or I would have gotten better overrev out of this thing...
I have seen 15 HP out of this setup before, and power was down from that, clearly. I was working on the map when I had to stop... As I was working on the ignition map, a broken reed halted progress. I suspect that the reed was failing and causing a drop in power. The crankshaft bearings were worn as well...
I replaced the reed petals, and crankshaft bearings late last week, but didn't take good time to document the progress. I took a few photos though. I also ported my reed block in hopes of a bit more power.
I was hoping to build a new engine up (have a few parts) but won't be able to get them in before TNG. I hope to find the time to get the new parts installed shortly after that.
I counted today, I have 25 scooters in the shop. I think this is a new record for October! Busy busy...
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/ignitech/cloud9033.jpg)
One of the maps I tried.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/ignitech/cloud9011.jpg)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/ignitech/cloud9012.jpg)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/ignitech/cloud9019.jpg)
The reed petal that stopped my fun.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/ignitech/cloud9013.jpg)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/ignitech/cloud9014.jpg)
Some porting on the reed block. I hope it makes a noticeable difference. If it does, I may go back and do up one of my spare blocks a little bit nicer.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/ignitech/cloud9015.jpg)
Engine out.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/ignitech/cloud9017.jpg)
Engine apart, getting new crankshaft bearings.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/ignitech/cloud9021.jpg)
Truing crankshaft. Got it within .003"... Still well within factory spec, but I would have liked .0015". Didn't have all the time in the world to work with it though.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/ignitech/cloud9022.jpg)
Heating the crankcase half on a hot plate in order to expand the metal enough to easily install the bearing. Yeah, my cases are dirty and unprofessional. Sorry. I was just trying to get the job finished that night. :)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/ignitech/cloud9030.jpg)
And on to the leak down pressure test! I found a leak at the oil pump. The pump is disabled, but I haven't taken time to make a proper block-off yet. I replaced the vacuum caps, and all was well. I also had to add a little sealant on my inlet manifold.
Cheers!
~Josh
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WOW!!! Awesome. I thought i was performing plenty of upgrading, but you have gotten the grand prize. And it looks incredible to top it off. I too will one day learn your kung fu scooter skills.
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I like the intake set up on that!
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WOW!!! Awesome. I thought i was performing plenty of upgrading, but you have gotten the grand prize. And it looks incredible to top it off. I too will one day learn your kung fu scooter skills.
Thank you for the kind words. :) I wanted the scooter to run fast, but look good as well. When I first started racing it, it was just naked with no body work. I want people to recognize it as a scooter, so the body panels were kind of important to me.
As for "Kung Fu Scooter Skils", I have always enjoyed the quote "The more a man learns, the more he realizes how little he knows." I have made power-robbing mistakes during the process of tuning this bike, and others, and I've been tuning scooters for a while now. Thankfully I have the dyno and other tools to help guide me in the right direction. I don't believe I will ever really consider myself any kind of "grandmaster 2-stroke tuner". Instead, I hope to always be able to learn more and grow my skill set. Perhaps I'll even get a few trophies under my belt in the process. :)
Ciao!
~Josh
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I like the intake set up on that!
Thanks man. :) I got the manifold from Racing Planet:
Racing Planet SF10 Manifold (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/intake-manifold-spacer-adapter-naraku-kymco-horiz-sf10-minarelli-connection-p-134611-1.html?sessID=0cf6279a040f40dec3353006dc632bfb#.Uk6gEYZyvm4)
The manifold adapter allows you to use a Minarelli inlet manifold, which is way better than the Kymco one. I opened mine up quite a bit in hopes of improving airflow to the engine. I hope to get back on the dyno this weekend after my work week is completed. I hope to see an increase in power - hopefully back up over 15 HP.
~Josh
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(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/ignitech/IMG_1063.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/ignitech/IMG_1065.JPG)
When 190mech made the exhaust for me, I just bought the cheapest silencer I could find to go on it. It was a blue color, and I've always disliked it on my scooter, because it didn't match anything. I removed the blue, and polished up the silencer a bit. It's far from perfect, but I like it a lot better. I also cleaned the rust off of the exhaust. I'm ashamed that I let it get that bad!
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/ignitech/IMG_1067.JPG)
Too many wires... I'm hooking up the AIM e-box for the Mychron 4 data logger.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/ignitech/IMG_1068.JPG)
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/ignitech/IMG_1069.JPG)
Here is the speed sensor mounting. I wanted to put it on the front wheel, but it was a little easier to put it on the rear for now.
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/ignitech/IMG_1070.JPG)
It runs!
(http://www.scooterinvasion.net/pics/mysuper9/ignitech/IMG_1071.JPG)
It runs, into the dyno that is... :( Damnit, didn't even race it with the fresh rebuild and I got a big scratch on my new paint. Oh well.
So, I have one more day to do any prep work to this before Twist and Gone...
~Josh
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War wounds, its still a sexy beast. Great job man!
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Is there a continuation of this thread? :P its kind of like watching a mystery and cutting it off at the end :'(
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Check out scooter invasion forums. That's where I've read it up.
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Ya saw one about it there by aeromyst. Ended at the same part tho. Must be a busy guy.
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Is there a continuation of this thread? :P its kind of like watching a mystery and cutting it off at the end :'(
With the great prices they have nowadays some find it cheaper to get a higher cc scoot and save the time
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It's definitely easier/ cheaper to get a bigger scooter to just ride. But some like to tweak and tune, maybe even race. In that case, I think it may be cheaper to tweak to the max a 50 2T vs 150cc or larger 4T.
I really enjoy reading Aeromyst's old posts. I am not going to do most of what he's doing, but fun and educational to see what he has done.
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Ya I was just curious as most never follow up on their super 9 redos. Plus in my state there's no registration on a 50cc and i love my two strokes
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For both of you, Chaz, and SuperScoot,
It's easier to build a super powered scooter than it is to apply common Ebay fix's
The MOST important thing is the pipe. Match a pipe to the jug, and it's on.
The rest is carb, tranny, and ballz.
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I'm but I remember josh claiming his went over 80. I would love to see that :P
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It's nothing but fun. When you think about the cheap, half arsed welds, and stage coach suspension... it makes you wonder what the hell you are doing. It's like Russian roulette. (but w/ 5 bullets)
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Hahaha but nothin is as bad as my old fa50. I felt like I was gonna die if I went over 30
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It's nothing but fun. When you think about the cheap, half arsed welds, and stage coach suspension... it makes you wonder what the hell you are doing. It's like Russian roulette. (but w/ 5 bullets)
My kind of game!
Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
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When you take all the variables into consideration, ie: God won't kill me today, the world needs people like me, bullets can't hurt you. It's all in your state of mind, I've been in worse places before, and nothing bad happened, i'm too stubborn to die, ect...
Five bullets is only making it fair.