KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 50cc => Like 50 2T => Topic started by: wassonii on November 03, 2011, 12:45:26 AM
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New to this forum as well. After doing much research and establishing what my driving would be like (and what would be involved to go higher than 50cc according to Florida DMV regulations), I decided on the Like 50. I am very happy in my decision and to have found like Like-minds herein.
When the scooter was delivered, there were just over 2km on the odometer. Delivered because prior to this purchase, a bicycle was the only two-wheeled experience I had and at the time I wasn't comfortable enough to drive it on the road. (and yes, I am HOOKED!)
I am in the process of breaking in the engine and have read many varied opinions on this process. I cannot say I subscribe to what the manual suggests, but feel that moderation is key while not laying on full-throttle for extended periods of travel. I am interested in reading others thoughts and experiences with this (and when, exactly, is an engine considered to be 'broken in'?).
Also, what do you all use to keep your Like looking fresh? I have read many suggestions elsewhere from Pledge to Plexus, Griot's Garage products to Meguiars Quick Detail and the like.
Lastly, I have read on the General Forum and herein others' suggestions for increasing speed on a 50cc, but do any of the mods about which I have read void the Kymco warranty? Is there any modification (save the "speed kit") that can be utilised that will keep the warranty intact while gaining a few more mph?
Glad to be here and quite thankful for this forum!
Cheers from Vero:)
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After having gotten further along toward becoming one with my scooter (and moving along in the breaking in), here is what I have found works for me regarding appearance upkeep: Meguiars Plastic polish is good stuff. The Quick Detail not too bad, either. I will eventually try out some wax, but for now, those work well for me.
I realise that I don't really want any more mph, per se, but am interested in holding the mph during heavy winds and up inclines.
Lastly, some mods are within warranty and simply require know-how or knowing a good mechanic, while some will trash that warranty outright.
Love this forum and all the knowledge herein!
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Things I have learned:
With the Kymco speed kit in place (smooth boss drive, upjet to 82, I believe - this was done by my dealer) and after breaking in, the top speed is 40 on flat without wind (per police radar). Of note: I am 6'6" and weigh about 230. With a strong wind (10-25mph), top speed is between 30-35, depending on wind direction/speed. Uphill top speed is between 26-32 mph, again depending on wind direction/speed. There was a point when I called my dealer/mechanic about a 'bogging down' issue. As throttling up, at about 15mph, the rpm would slow in its' increase as going through gear and then pick back up at about 25mph. Too, on occasional take-off, the scooter would slowly creep into gear. His solution at the time was to put in some lighter rollers. 6.5g to be exact. (Stock roller weights on the Like 502t are 8.5) This without changing anything else in the system. After the roller swap it would respond well at takeoff, but it would reach maximum rpm at about 25mph and slowly increase speed. Uphill became 23-25mph. Top speed on a flat was 32mph. We went back to the stock rollers after about 2 days. The bogging down at about 15mph has not returned, although when cold, takeoff is sluggish, though part of that was initially my fault for not getting all the excess PJ1 out after cleaning my filter. One thing that he found, fyi, is that my belt had some wear (more than he expected). It could be that due to particularly windy conditions and my height more drag occurred than most would experience, my weight caused this, or the amount of WOT with which I drive, coupled with the other factors. He did, though, put on a new belt.
I found out via the guru at Moped Hospital that the exhaust restriction (besides the catalytic converter) is an extra pipe on the muffler, about 1" in diameter that terminates on itself. I have seen this on other OEM mufflers and his solution, as well as what I have read and seen online, was to crimp it off as close to the muffler pipe as possible. I cut it off yesterday, leaving enough to vise it and "fold" it back on itself. I then used muffler putty to ensure a good seal (although welding is an option, I didn't want to wait). With this restriction removed, acceleration is greatly improved, the top speed on flat remains at 40mph, uphill without wind is now 35 and with wind is 28-32mph. Of note: there is no restrictive washer in the end of the muffler pipe. The only exhaust restrictions are those listed.
My next step will be to get a Tecnigas muffler, either the Silent Pro or Next R, go to slightly lighter weights, change out the Contra for the 1000rpm and swap the clutch springs for either 1000 or 1500 rpm. I will update this after making further changes and test runs.
I have no desire at present for a BBK, I would just like my little engine to perform at capacity and to have a fighting chance when facing big wind and when climbing a bridge.
For the record I am getting around 35-40mpg, whether I use 90 octane non-ethanol or 93 octane 10% ethanol fuel. SeaFoam is used regardless.
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A synthetic 2 stroke oil made for injector applications will help (I use amsoil interceptor) and a NGK iridium plug will improve performance and resist fouling . Good luck .
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Thank you. I will def get the irridium plug. I am inclined toward synthetic as well, but truth be told, my dealer told me that they have had more issues with engines that have switched to synthetic. I am, at least, using BelRay dino for now. Cheers! I've set the wheels in motion to make the upgrades. I had really wanted to stay within warranty, but given some of the roads I need to travel, I have to be able to maintain closer to 40-45mph on a regular basis, which should be more than possible given the avenues I am currently pursuing.
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Synthetic 2 stroke oils are tricky , many are made for marine applications with liquid cooling . I have heard that it's important to choose an oil and stick with it also . Again , good luck , and enjoy your scoot .
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Thank you. I am certainly enjoying the heck out of it! I think their concern is from folks not breaking in an engine before switching and then not sticking to a brand when refilling, as you said.
Too, of note, the 40-45mph to which I refer is for a 3-4 mile stretch of road that runs beside the complex in which I reside. 90% of my driving is on roads with a 25-35mph speed limit, although there are bridges I travel almost daily and maintaining at least 35mph under all conditions on them is also a result I seek.
Thank you again!
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Hey, wassonii. I know very little about the Like but wanted to say hello since I was born and raised in Vero Beach. ;) That was over 58 years ago, though. Rode motorcycles all over that county. Of course it was much different then. I'm glad you're happy with the Like and the conservative mods you're doing.
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Conservative for now, yes. The Like is an interesting little beast. I've ridden a 2001 People 2 stroke and Kymco has definitely made some changes to their 50cc engine since then, though the basics are still intact. One of the less conservative mods I am contemplating in the recesses of my mind is machining down the cylinder head. That will be later down the road, though.
Some here in Vero has changed greatly, but there is much that is, I believe, unchanged. I do dig the rural feel to swathes of IRC, for sure.
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Hee hee. ;D Please seek advice from Sidthesloth or theBatman or Wordslinger before undertaking head mods. They've all modified their ZX 50s or other 50cc scooters extensively. There used to be a guy here named Zombie who also knows a LOT about modifying all kinds of engines. . . Think he hangs out at other forums still.
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Hoolander2 - Thank you very much for the advice! I will definitely do some research and ask some questions of those that know before undertaking any changes of that nature. It's taken me this long to become one with my scooter and figure out what this next step would be, I certainly don't want to rush unawares into anything further. Take care and happy riding in this new year!
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Right then. In the continuing "Life with my Like"...
With the stock exhaust derestricted (as far as removing the pipe that goes to nowhere is concerned), the top speed was 40mph (on open straightaway with minimal wind, but verified by police radar) and take-off was sh**e, particularly when the engine wasn't fully warmed up. Bear in mind that the catalytic converter was still present in the body of the muffler. Too, I am still on stock rollers (8.5g which are likely a little on the heavy side). Acceleration was great after 1st gear. Climbing inclines deteriorated, though. From 32-35mph at first to 22-25mph. I do think that the muffler paste I had used was in need of a reapplication, though.
I ordered (via Moped Hospital) a Tecnigas Silent Sport exhaust after consulting with my guru about my needs, driving habits, and general driving conditions. It is a nifty little beast that compliments well the overall look of the Like. UPS manhandled the HECK out of my package, though. When I got home, the box was propped against my front door and upon picking the box up, I noticed a large hole torn in one end (and no UPS person or truck anywhere in sight). Fearing the worst, I grabbed a camera and started taking pics of the box and throughout the opening process. The Silent Sport has a silencer on it which arrives separately and is attached to a three-pronged flange via gasket and three bolts. The flange is what had poked the hole and two of it's 'prongs' had been bent quite a bit, causing paint loss and rendering the silencer unable to be attached. The very good people at Moped Hospital responded quickly to my email with pics. I ended up taking a discount and using some elbow grease to fix the problem.
Let me take a moment to emphasize how truly wonderful and helpful the folks at Moped Hospital are, because it's true!
This morning I swapped the exhausts. The emission control (secondary air filter) is moot once the stock muffler is removed, fyi. Attaching the Silent Sport was not too bad. It comes with 2 X 6mm allen head bolts and aluminum spacers, as well as the silencer and its' gasket and nuts (the bolts for the silencer are part of the canister). This muffler sits a little farther away from the enngine and its' frame is curved to go alongside the cooling fan. (It actually is in front of part of the housing for the cooling fan, hence the aluminum spacers for the bolts). The third hole for attachment is not near where the stock muffler attached to the rear wheel 'shroud' (not sure of the actual term) so I shall either leave it be or figure something out.
Test run results: Sounds like a scooter. Take-off is much better, though I will have to dial in correct roller weight (6.5g is way too light, so I will be working my way down starting with the 8.0g set due next week). Acceleration is good good good. Top speed in 10mph wind on a straightaway is 45mph.
Lovely. More to come....
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I ordered some 8.0g Dr. Pulley round weights via partsforscooters.com (great company, excellent customer service, and very quick turnaround). My mechanic/dealer installed them for me and his response was "damn, you did great" after coming back from a test ride. He had taken the scooter out before the weight change and was very pleased (as am I) with the scooter's response at take off and through the power band. There is no loss at top speed with the lessening of the roller weight (45mph w/ 8.5g stock weights/ same with 8.0g).
We talked a bit and I think I will go from the 82 main jet to an 85 and drill a quarter-inch hole in my air cleaner box cover. I will be doing some checking around, though, before doing this, as I want to see if I can find opinions on the removal of the air box restriction instead. I think if I remove the restriction, I may need to go to an 88 main jet, but more investigation is needed. I did order a performance cdi from scrappy dog scooters (another great company and also with excellent customer service). I don't know if this will make a difference, but at this point, it is all part of the grand experiment. I will not install/play with the new cdi until after upjetting and allowing more airflow so as to have a good idea of what mods are effective in linear fashion and not all at once.
More to come...
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For info purposes: With the new weights, uphill is consistently at 35+mph with only a 1-2mph loss in 10-15+mph wind. The 45mph noted above is on flat with no wind. In 10-20mph wind, 35-38mph is top speed (WOT)
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Hi Wass, Your post(s) have the same feel as all the "newbies". From "Just want a bit more" to "How do you install NOS?" You seem to have a great grasp on what is happening to your scoot so the rest will be easy. Change out your control spring in the clutch. Go w/ a 1500 rpm. This will prevent any hill climb/wind loss. Also a 1/4" hole in the air box will do nothing. You need to either remove the cover exposing the foam element, or replace it w/ an "open" type filter. This will require larger main, and pilot jets. The pilot may just need (1) step up, while the main may need to go over 90. Trial, and error. Start w/ the pilot. You will want a jet that gives the best rpm's with the mix screw (2) turns out (give or take 1/2). The main will be correct w/ the needle in the center clip (give or take 2). Your control spring is the key to what you seem to need tho. Before milling the head there is a LOT of number crunching to do. Hi compression, and low octane non ethanol do NOT work together. Same w/ Hi octane ethanol fuel. The ethanol dilutes the 2t oil needed for hi compression. You can mill .5mm safely off a stock setup but you will never feel a diff. If you just want more bottom end try extending the intake coupler 4-6". You will have to re-plumb everything, but it acts as a venturi of sorts by storing xtra unburnt mix for an "on demand" boost.
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Zombie - beautiful advice, for sure. I am indeed just a newbie, but I have no intention of doing it all at once nor a BBK. Slow and steady and getting to know this beautiful little engine that can and will:)
I had wondered how a 1/4 inch hole could make much if any difference, but I wasn't going to drill willy-nilly. Before going to an open-air, I would like to see what happens with restriction removal on the stock air filter. I figure after doing some info searching after writing earlier this evening, that an 88 is still going to be too lean with derestricting the air, probably more in the range of 92-96. I do wonder if this will require upping the pilot jet a little, too.
For the control spring (and here is another area where I definitely show the greenness) - I am going to assume this is what I have seen called the 'contra' or 'torque' spring - is 1500 too much? I know without a doubt that 2000 is too much and had wondered if 1000 might be too little or not.
Milling was a thought for much further down the road and only after much research and questioning of those whom know (such as yourself). I knew it would require high octane but had wondered what effect ethanol vs. the oil would have. Currently in Florida (where I live) all gas dispensed at pumps is required to be an ethanol blend unless it is for recreational purposes (I have a local purveyor of 90 octane non-ethanol, which is what I use with about 1oz of Seafoam per gallon). I have seen, too, where the Sunoco 100 octane is nearby, but it still has ethanol. I'd have to drive about an hour or so South of where I live to get non-ethanol racing fuel, so milling was a thought only.
I hadn't even gotten to thinking about the intake coupler. I have so much yet to learn:)
I will keep posting updates as I make changes or find out more.
Although the engine in the Like50 2t is similar to the People, Agility, & Super 8 50cc 2t's, they each have different characteristics and there's just so little about the Like online... but I digress.
Thank you very much for your insight. More to come...
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Thanks Wass, The #'s on the torque spring are deceiving. The factory spring is set soft to prolong belt life, and nothing more. A stiffer spring will pull the var. back sooner to give you an effective higher gear. The 1000 works well on a "stock" setup. The 1500 on a mild tuned setup, and the 2000 for a high out-put engine. They should sell them this way to avoid ?'s. I don't think a 1000 will give you the results you may expect where the 1500 will be a blessing to your engine. I also live here in Fl. (carrabelle). I have several sources for fuel here. We have an airfield that sells 104 Avgas for 4.75 gal., and all the local Marinas for 87 non E. . I am dealing w/ a 10.7:1 compression engine that after break in that can be brought up to 13.7:1.Anyway as for the Intake, Making it longer has the same effect as a tunnel ram on a 4t engine. Just a reservoir of sorts. You can experiment w/o committing to anything. Just add a piece of rubber hose for trials.
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Florida is a beautiful place in which to live, but this ethanol thing is killing me:) We moved here from Alabama a few months ago where at a few stations one could still find 93 octane non-ethanol as an option. That was pre-scooter, so I took it for granted. Och well...
I greatly appreciate the layman's explanation of springs. I know for certain that the stock spring isn't doing anything for prolonging my belt's life, as they (I'm on my 3rd) have been wearing a bit more than usual (from what I have been told and read - and seen). I am actually going to get a kevlar (Gates, likely) this next paycheck, as well as a stiffer spring and some jets. After making these changes (as I wrote earlier, I'll be taking out the air filter restriction) and seeing what the cdi change affects, I will definitely see what effect lengthening the intake has. I'll be reading to see what happens to your engine after break-in. I am definitely intrigued. Here in the land of Piper, I hadn't even considered them as an option for the higher octane, but for now, the 90 is good.
Thank you again for the advice! It is definitely taken to heart.
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Hey Zombie, do you happen to know the diameter of torque spring that will fit the Kymco 2 stroke 50cc engine? I've been searching for about 2 hours and can't find it anywhere (although there are manufacturers who give Kymco as a fitment, just no diameters).
Thanks in advance!
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More specifically, in looking at parts for scooters http://www.partsforscooters.com/Welcome?search=torque+spring (http://www.partsforscooters.com/Welcome?search=torque+spring) , they list 2 types for 2 stroke: Hoca QMB139 Performance Torque Springs, which has a 49mm inner diameter listed, and Hoca Minarelli Performance Torque Springs, which lists no inner diameter, neither of which gives Kymco as a specific fit.
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I don't know the #'s but I just bought the red Hoca qmb spring for a friends people from the same source. Great company, and I received it the next day. UPS in FL. is always next day. The qmb spring is the one you want. You can also order a Torsion controller from them for about ten bucks. It sits under the spring on the pulley side to prevent binding. Less friction, and better feel in the shifting
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Right on. Thank you very much! They are indeed a great little company. Very nice to have them so close!
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Quick Update: At present (and since last Friday) I am running an 88 main jet with the 'plug' restriction removed from the airbox intake, but I am leaving the external tube ('corrugated' or 'accordion-like' rubber tube attached to the throat of the intake hole on the front side of the airbox, as sold on the scooter from Kymco) attached. I need to do a plug chop, but only got some plugs in 2 days ago and have had no time to check (little did I know until I went looking that no one in this town carries the BR8HSA except for my dealer). My thinking is to cut down the external tube so that I might cap a little filtration over the intake hole on the box (cut down said tube to hold down filtration over the 'throat' of the airbox). Once I have been able to get a look at a new plug in the engine, I will start to play with drilled holes and have even gotten some of the Uni 'pop-in' filters for drilled holes (1 inch in diameter) should I want to increase some air flow. (I don't want the airbox to look like swiss cheese and can't imagine that 1/4" or 3/8" holes, unless multiple, will have that great of an effect). I am also sitting on a 92 jet should the plug read lean. A torque spring is in my possession, though I want to get the air/fuel just right before adding a new ingredient to the mix. Also, although the lighter 8g rollers are a good improvement over the stock 8.5g, I have on the way a set of 7.5g to see if that might dial in a bit better the little engine. On a related note, I have seen other queries re: the Like 50 2t and cdi. I wonder if anyone has been able to discover if this cdi does indeed have restriction or if the company line is true. At any rate, dialling in in Vero....
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You are on the right track. I'm glad you posted too as when I stated the torsion controller goes on the pulley end of the contra spring I miss-posted. It goes on the clutch end of the spring. Also the 1 step at a time approach will keep you from turning the scoot into a mooring anchor. The HSA plug are a Bitc* to find so I get 4 at a time. I found an article on cvt function, and posted it on the forum (forgot where) but it is new so it should be on the first page of the thread. (Tech.? how to?) it was titled cvt's or is it cvti's. The roller wieghts will change again w/ the contra spring install too. So it is good you are getting a collection going. A firmer spring needs more weight to open the var. so your rpm's will rise when you install it. Heavier rollers will counter act this. You will gain a more functional trans set up when done. It will feel more like a bike than a scoot. Don't know about the cdi tho. Go down a steep hill. If the cdi is restricted you will hear/feel the engine cutting out over a given rpm. If it revs to the top w/ no hesitation you are not restricted
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Thanks as always, Zombie. It's because of knowledge such as yours that I and others come to this forum and hopefully one day we can carry on the tradition!
Thanks for linking to that article. Very helpful! I agree on the plugs, but thankfully parts for scooters has 'em. Once I get the mix right, I'll end up with an Iridium. I know it doesn't increase performance, per se, but the long-life of them (as well as the potential for a more concentrated spark) appeals to me.
While I am going to get my mechanic to install the spring, I am almost comfortable enough to give a go at tweaking the weights. I did get a kevlar belt for when the spring happens.
I pulled the plug yesterday and so far, so good on plug read. I have proceeded to removing the rubber hose with just the open throat on the air cleaner box. The tone has deepened, but the engine does pull better through the throttle. I'll do another read in a day or so to see if I can add a hole or need to upjet.
More after the next part of the process.
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You are already helping by posting your results. It gets hard to find things here so every post counts. One issue w/ Kevlar belts... They DO chew up the cvt parts pretty quickly. You will need to replace the Var. parts about every year or two depending on hp. If you are staying in the lightly modded range they are ok. The biggest benefit is they do not stretch, they get thinner. Polyester belts both stretch, and get thinner.
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I had read from several posters across the forums (here, ScootDawg, and 49cc) that with a stiffer spring, kevlar would wear less easily than the standard belt. I'm hoping, too, with kevlar and spring that belt slippage will be less likely to occur. Not always, but on occasion, at takeoff there is some slippage occurring (hesitation to throttle up and a 'squealing' sound).
I figured there would be some manner of tradeoff with the kevlar, but it's all good. There will come a time when I will want to swap out for a different make of variatoir, I'm sure. While I want to keep the mods to a modest level, they are like potato chips in that one is never enough ;)
I understand now what folks speak of with regard to same scooters from the same batch will each respond differently to the same mods, but there is relatively little on the forums specific to the Like 50 2 stroke so I hope the next person will at least have something to go by. I know it shares an engine with other models, but is still an individual beast.
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Actually the Var. is the biggest bang for the buck mod. Prodigy has a good Mild tuned var.(low end torque better take off / 2-4mph increase), Polinni has a good Hi Perf. var.(top end torque + 3-5mph), and Malossi has the best all around var. Better take off, w/ increased top speed (3-5mph). Each bit you change in the cvt requires re tuning or "balancing". One part directly effects the other. That is what makes it frustrating for some. Your stiffer spring will work best w/ heavier rollers. Stock spring works better w/ lighter rollers. Malossi var works better w/ their belt, and contra spring. Prodigy var works best w/ lighter rollers, and stiffest spring. ECT... Even jetting can be effected w/ different cvt combos. I think it will save you alot of time/trouble to figure what you want the scoot to do. Wheelies? 55mph? Both? From there you can purchase the bits that will give you the chosen result. For an "every day" cruiser... Tune as you are doing, Get the Malossi var, and spring kit, add 1000 rpm fly springs, and tune the rollers to the desired cruise rpm's. About $200.00 should get you there. If the bug is still biting then go for a BBK/bigger carb/pipe. With just the minor cvt mods you will bring the scoot to life, and NOT degrade reliability. It's like a label was put on scooters that says "Do NOT Tune Above Stock"! I JUST HAVE TO NOW!
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Truth. I'm holding off on a new variator, though when I decide that the time is right, I believe Malossi will be the way to go.
If I need lots more speed, I'll just get a bigger bike. Where I am heading now is a good place with a dependable scoot, particularly with the types of roads I am currently riding.
I have done a few plug chops with varying degrees of restriction and at present, a stock air box without its' 'silencer' tube and without the 'collett' in the neck runs slightly rich with an 88 jet, which is fine. I will tune in extra air in the coming week. I have actually ordered 7.7g weights (polini) to see what gains that produces, but have a Jasil 15% spring in the wings to test that out, too.
Had a bit of a scare a couple of days ago. Was riding along when the scoot cut out. I was afraid of a soft seize (this was before confirmong the slight richness), but when the scoot started right back up after pulling off the road, I ruled the seize out. I have long legs and think I may have brushed the starter button. Bad scoot owner 101.
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Actually the Var. is the biggest bang for the buck mod.
..amen...
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Strange days, indeed. With the primary hole for my airbox derestricted and an 88 main jet all was well. Added a secondary hole on the underside of the airbox (3/8 of an inch and on the correct side of the air filter). Tried some 7.7g weights to see what that would do, as opposed to the 8g I had been running. About a week ago, while doing some test runs, the scooter slowed down at about full throttle and the engine cut off. Not a seize as the rear wheel never locked. Started right up (within a minute) and I erturned home and blocked the new hole. I have played with blocking the second hole using aluminum tape (3/4, 1/2 way, etc) and all had been going well. (I should note that plug chops along the way indicate a slightly rich mix - coffee brown to slightly darker. No sticky residue. No particulates) After the initial engine reaction, I went to my mechanic and his initial thought was that maybe the petcock wasn't receiving the vacuum that it needed with the extra hole.
Yesterday, I tried leaving the secondary hole only slightly blocked. On the way to work, the engine did it again (I should note that for either time this has happened, there has been no definitive sound associated with the power decrease or shut off), but this time, the engine would not start back up. After the walk of shame, I covered the scoot and went to work to wait to take a look in daylight this A.M. Pulled the most recent plug and it looks about the same as the last described. Topped off the oil (it was low, but not low enough to set off the light. Still, I wanted to leave no stone unturned at this point.) It will not start with the starter. I am about to return to it to see what a kickstart will do, but wanted to post this interesting conundrum as I am presently stumped...and I needed a cigarette before returning to it. Never a dull moment:)
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Right, then. Kick start yields nada. Of note: the kill switch has definitely not been engaged in any of this process. I promise that was the first thing I checked.
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I don't have time today, but will change out the fuel filter to see if there is some blockage. Any other suggestions are greatly appreciated.
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Anytime I have a no-start situation I check spark, fuel, and compression. On a 2-stroke I also do a leak down pressure test. Even if you suspect the culprit, it's best to do these things, and get the facts before trying to solve the equation. You can't solve an equation without enough variables.
I think you should put the airbox restrictor back in, and block the drilled hole too. With the silent pro, the main jet changed, and the sliders the bike should run pretty good. The stock carb isn't really made to be adjusted much (no needle clip adjustment, and on the new Likes that I've worked on, they have a welch plug over the pilot adjustment) and there's not much gain to be had in this area other than a louder scooter and worse gas milage.
That said, I have removed the restrictor, re-jetted the carb, and swapped exhaust (Leo Vince Touring, and Leo Vince SP3) along with clutch springs and dr. pulley sliders. This helped the bike tremendously, but you could tell that there was a lean spot during the transition between 1/4 and 3/4 throttle, and without being able to really adjust the needle and pilot circuit accordingly I don't feel that it was worth doing.
The Silent Pro is a cool exhaust! Congrats on that.
Keep us posted on your progress. :) Those things are soooo slow in stock form. It sounds like you've done good work so far! Keep it up.
~Josh
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What J. said... My impression is a soft seize. You may have been cruising in that "lean spot" Compression test would be first on the list. 120psi or more is good. below 120 would explain it all. Your new pipe is far more efficient at scavenging the cyl..
The plug may not show lean because the soft seize is created by heat, and the tire will still spin. Try the compression, and maybe a new COLDER plug to bring down the heat
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Thank you both very much! While I have been assembling a tool kit along the way, a compression tester and volt meter were on the list and as yet have not been purchased. I have paid heed to the mantra 'spark, fuel, compression' but was going at the first variable I knew I could ascertain. Josh I appreciate sincerely your reiteration of it. Sometimes it is easy to focus on one thing and lose sight of the bigger picture, cause/effect within the whole.
As soon as this most recent situation occurred, I taped over the secondary hole and am making plans to create a more permanent seal for it. I fear that I am about to learn an expensive lesson, but I do love my little Like. Josh, they are indeed slow in initial unrestricted form (new boss and 82 jet).
Without having yet done a compression test, I can tell you that the kickstarter doesn't offer as much resistance as it once did. I was hoping (erroneously, likely) that I might have kicked too hard and sprung the spring, but I believe that it is telling me something else. Yesterday was a 2 show day at the theatre so I wasn't able to return to my scooter and since I have no workspace/area of my own, today is right out with the coming rain.
Being the packrat that I am, I have kept all parts played with up to this point, and will return the airbox restrictor to its' place. I will, though, likely leave the silencer (long corrugated rubber tube) off.
All this being said, if I can't get it running by Tuesday, I shall have to get it carted to my mechanic.
Zombie, do you have a suggestion for colder plug. At least at my regular purveyor, I don't see a number higher/colder than 8 for this plug type, though admittedly I haven't done research elsewhere yet, having focused last night on infos related to the points you two have made.
Thank you very much! I do love my 2 stroke and am trying to teach myself to be a better, more hands on owner.
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http://www.mxlife.cz/zapalovaci-svicky/884-svicka-ngk-br9hsa.html (http://www.mxlife.cz/zapalovaci-svicky/884-svicka-ngk-br9hsa.html)
I order mine from Taiwan as they are not sold in the US. BR9HSA NGK. Jiangwayne carries them, and I buy 6 at a time. Comes to about $25.00 shipped. http://www.jiangwayne.com/scooter/parts.php (http://www.jiangwayne.com/scooter/parts.php)
Shops in the US cannot even order them
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Thank you. The only thing close I found is the BR9HS. I can't make out what difference the "S" vs "SA" is on the NGK Design Symbols as "S" indicates standard, "A" indicates special design but there is no "SA" given. Tomorrow I get a compression tester and start figuring things out as best able.
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The 9hs is really a marine plug. It has a completely different insulator, and is flush with the inside of the head. The HSA's tip protrudes into the head starting the flame front at a different spot. The HS WILL work in a scoot but you lose power due to longer timing in flame travel. Milliseconds matter.
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Understood. Thank you. I wouldn't have ordered them without consulting first. And I do believe ms matters!
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And I do believe ms matters!
If you happen to run into my wife (very good chance) tell her! She don't want to here it from me...
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Nice!
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Compression is 115 w/electric starter. 120 with kickstarter.
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Definitely getting spark at the plug.
I did go ahead and replace the restriction in the throat of the airbox after checking compression.
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120 is pretty low according to the manual. You should be around 160 or so...
You can remove the exhaust, and look up into the exhaust port to see the piston and rings. If there are scratches and scarring on the parts, you should be able to see them.
~Josh
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That is what I feared. Even with the plus or minus 2 given in the specs, 130 would be the lowest in a perfect world.
I haven't taken a look yet in the exhaust port, but then I would have a heckuva time without a lift anyway.
So, after my mechanic gets it and tells me about it and we figure out and fix the problem, should I consider going to a larger main jet or is the 88 okay so long as I leave the restrictor in the airbox?
Of course, in a perfect world I would get a tunable carb, but that is not in the cards anytime soon, especially with the cash I am about to shell out, if only for shop time.
I would like to think that if the fuel system were 100%, with the compression I am getting that some manner of start would be in effect.
On a completely different note, (and part of why I won't have spare change for a carb), know any shops that carry Heidenau k58s? Rainy season is coming here in Florida...
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JOSH... www.thescootergarage.com/ (http://www.thescootergarage.com/)
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Sweet. I have been poking around the heidenau site and saw that you had put some on your People and was hoping the k58 was something tsg carried. I had them recommended for rainy, partially sandy conditions and while the kendas have been okay, I know I'll need a more substantial tire for all season travelling. I will, of course, need to get my present situation sorted out.
Back to my sitch - prior to my acquiring the Tecnigas I had 'derestricted' the stock muffler, but only cut the one tube, not realising that I could/should have cut and crimped the one for the 'emission control' as well. I only ran like this for about a week and a half, but is it possible that could have added to my scooter's present state?
If I had a garage or even if I didn't live in fear of the condo association, I would have no issue with being more exploratory, but I can't pull apart my scooter in the parking lot with the current rules under which I live. Changing out a muffler or pulling the seat for observation are one thing, but creating a work area and spilling gas is right out.
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"prior to my acquiring the Tecnigas I had 'derestricted' the stock muffler, but only cut the one tube, not realising that I could/should have cut and crimped the one for the 'emission control' as well. I only ran like this for about a week and a half, but is it possible that could have added to my scooter's present state?"
In my opinion that is what caused the problem. It was the same as an exhaust leak leaning the engine. Your putting on the new pipe only gave you a "grace period" as the damage was already done.
Josh'll hook you up!
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My hope is that my mistake means new rings at the most. Like I wrote earlier, I am about to learn an expensive lesson, but hopefully not crazy expensive. My mechanic is a fair human being and I certainly trust him. Och well, someone had to do this first on this forum for this scoot. May others heed the warning:)
I still wonder, though, if something isn't awry with the fuel pump or such.
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Infos re: colder plug - What is available stateside is a colder iridium BR9HIX, which I may opt for after diagnosis and fix, though I haven't ruled out Zombie's recommend.
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And so my scooter is off to the doctor. Being an honest person, I let my mechanic/dealer know what mistake I had made with the original muffler so he didn't judge our air/mainjet experiments as the primary culprits in this episode. I'll get a diagnosis later today/early tomorrow and will report back the findings.
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Well, I got my scooter back today. May I just say damn, I missed the smell of 2 stroke exhaust.
It wasn't a cheap lesson, but turned out better than expected, cost-wise.
New Piston and rings and cylinder. I got a look at the old piston. Yikes! Black and charred and scratched. I didn't test it against a flat surface, but it looked a little warped as well.
The inside of the original cylinder looked fair until the last few millimeters which were scratched and black.
When I mess something up, I certainly do it right.
I am now having to break in a new set.
He also adjusted the oil pump to put out more than the factory setting, though not fully open.
As I wrote before, the hole I drilled in the airbox is well covered and the restrictive piece is back in the throat of the airbox. Do I want to put the silencer tube (corrugated rubber hose) back on?
I'd like some thoughts on break-in procedure, if possible. I never thought that the Kymco "30km/h for the 1st 1000km was totally necessary. My intent is to variate between 1/4 - 3/4 throttle most of the time and after a hundred or so km add full throttle into the mix occasionally keeping it easy going for about 500km - 1000km.
He did suggest adding about 1 oz. of 2 stroke oil when I fill up in addition to the Seafoam I use (about 1 oz per gallon).
Lesson learned.
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I have read that with 2 cycle break-ins initial heat up and cool down cycles are important along with varying rpms and not holding wot for extended periods at first . Maybe others could elaborate on this . Good luck .
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When I initially had gotten my scooter, the references I had were the owners manual and internet. From my previous message, you know what Kymco says. Online was everything from what you have written to 'ride it like you stole it' :) In the initial break-in period, I was pretty good about varying and then got a little careless with the variation toward the last 500km-1000km. Dregni, in "Scooters: Everything You Need To Know" says this: "...breaking in a new engine requires sedate riding at ho-hum medium speeds. Follow the manufacturer's recommended break-in procedure, which usually suggests calm, practical driving for the first hundred miles (at least) and not topping out the rpm just to wake the neighborhood." Haynes Service and Repair Manual says this : "1. Treat the engine gently for the first few miles to allow any new parts to bed-in. 2. If a new piston, cylinder or crankshaft assembly has been installed, the engine will have to be broken-in as when new. This means a restraining hand on the throttle until at least 300 miles (500km) have been covered. There's no point in keeping to any set speed limit - the main idea is to keep from laboring the engine and to gradually increase performance up to the 600 mile (1000km) mark. Make sure that the throttle position is varied to vary engine speed, and use full throttle only for short bursts. Experience is the best guide, since it's easy to tell when an engine is running freely."
Your point, juice, is well-taken.
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Very happy you have it back in one piece. The vary the throttle approach is best overall. Hang on to your used cylinder. It can be bored/honed to the next size piston. Kymco does NOT offer 1 over parts but others do.
Before you ask... What is the OD of your stock piston?
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Glad to have it back. I was lost:) Hope the weather is as nice there as it is here and you are enjoying it!
I didn't ask to keep the parts when I picked her up, but went back today. My mech. was kind enough to dig them out of the scrap bin. Due to being outsode, there is a little oxidization on the cylinder.
Specs indicate for piston/cylinder that piston o.d. (5mm from bottom of piston skirt) is 38.970 ~ 38.955/cylinder bore is 39.0 ~ 39.025
Here's some pics:
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And thanks for the recommend on the throttle variations. Definitely taking it easy. After about 100km I will add in full to the mix (of course for short bursts only!).
Here's pic of the cylinder:
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Spray out the cylinder with PB Blaster, and stuff a soaked rag in it for storage.It can be honed to .5mm over. Here is your piston...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pro-X-Piston-Kit-020-39-5mm-HONDA-CRF50-2004-2009-/300325576210?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item45eccc9e12&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pro-X-Piston-Kit-020-39-5mm-HONDA-CRF50-2004-2009-/300325576210?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item45eccc9e12&vxp=mtr)
Yours just melted over the rings, and made them stick.
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Will do! Thanks very much for the link, too. Takin it easy on my little fitty...
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I own a like 50 2t too and I just want to say I love it as well
I have had mine for a little over a year and had a lot of the same troubles upgrading it
I live in Raleigh and there are not any reliable mechanics in this city for scooters that I have found
This was my first scoot and I made all of the installs myself and started with a new exhaust but because I've
Never done anything with a 2 stroke I had no idea that I needed to rejet so I baked my exhaust and scratched up my piston and cylinder. After buying a new pipe and installing a malossi 70cc kit, and an arreche 18mm carb and 7g dr pulley weights with a 90 main jet and my air box derestricted and the rubber hose still attached it runs almost perfect. The only issues I have are it stalls when i stop at lights and when I engage the throttle sometimes it feels like it takes a second before it accelerates, but it only happens every once in a while. Also when I hit 47mph it feels like I just loose all horsepower and my scoot won't accelerate any higher and then if u leave it full throttle at 47mph for to long it feels like it has a small back fire. I get really crappy gas mileage now as well. Any thought on how I might resolve these issues? I just bought a malossi variator wheel, delta clutch and bell, and kevlar belt but havnt had a chance to install yet, trying to read up and figure what all the different color springs mean. Did u ever install the CDI, cause i still have the stock CDI and I was thinking that might be why it tops out. Any help would be greatly appreciated
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You sound like you have a few easy issues... The small bog off idle should be in the idle mix screw. Do you know how to adjust it for the best mix? How many turns out is it right now, and which side of the carb is it on? The air box side or the intake side?. I think you are right about the rev limiter too. There are some threads here on de restricting yours instead of buying a new one. Try the search feature to find people 2t de restriction. or cdi de rest. people. post back and we'll get it right
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Zombie's the man, for sure. I do know that regarding the stck cdi, it is an 8-pin, so some wire cutting and splicing may be involved. The stock carbs on these are functional, at best. As far as springs go, Zombie put it in layman's terms further back in the thread "The 1000 works well on a "stock" setup. The 1500 on a mild tuned setup, and the 2000 for a high out-put engine."
Do keep us posted, please, as to the progress.
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Hey Wass... :-*
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What is up, sir?! Still taking it easy with the scoot. Ordered a set of K58s from Josh. He's the coolest (and very fair in pricing.) I still haven't put the stiffer contra on (what with the new bits, I want to wait until break-in is complete before messing with the mix again), but I do have the Gates kevlar on (it was installed just prior to melt-down). I'm not entirely convinced that the stock belt doesn't run better. When I get the new tires installed, I'm going to switch back to the kymco belt for comparison and after 1000k are on the new piston/cylinder set-up, will move forward. I hope all is well in your world. Did you ever pick up a new daily scoot?
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You've got a great grasp on tuning yours. The Gates may well be shorter/thinner than Oem. It's soooooo hard to find the right belt. Maybe the next size up will out perform both of the belts you have. I have 4 NEW belts that just don't work right so the spares are here...
I did get the cash Ive been waiting on, and have called three dealers to go pick one up this week. SR 50 R Factory. I have 3 prices that are identical, and I will walk in with cash to see who bites. I would prefer to have THEM send the cpu/fuel controller to HGT for remapping to cover warranty issues.
The rest is gonna be like Xmas here. ZX parts from all over the globe, and HGT's parts from Good old USA! I'm already digging it.
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I have 2 screws, one that controls the needle and then another one on the left near the intake. Not sure what the second screw adjusts. I know when i rejetted after installing the kit and exhaust I tried everything and wound up on 90. 85 was running lean, but 90 seems to be running rich. Also when I adjust the needle screw until it stops bogging when idling it runs like sh**. I'm thinking my reed petals might be messed up which i think could cause problems. I cant seem to find reed petals that fit or a new reed valve assembly. The carbon fiber reeds that came with the 70cc kit where to small. Also I installed the variator last week and now my top speed can reach 50. Didnt have the right tools to change the clutch and clutch bell though. Planning on getting the tools and installing them soon. I also wanted to try and install an new air filter any idea how big my jet would need to be. When I first installed the carb I put on a new air filter and nothing between 90 and 110 seemed to be right. Thanks zombie for the response and any other help u might provide
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The small screw near the intake is the idle mix screw. In your case (near the manifold) it is a fuel control screw. How many turns out from snug is the screw when it idles best?
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It idles well at 6 turns from snug. That seems like a lot??
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That is showing your Idle jet is too small. You have to remove yours, and read the size stamped on it. You will most likely need to go up 2 sizes. (if yours is a 38 then go to a 42). Once you get that corrected your Main jet will be easier to tune.
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Ps The correct idle jet will need between 1 1/2 - 3 turns out on the mix screw
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Damn ok that's cool, I have a 90 jet and the jets increase in increments of 5 so I'll try it with a 100 jet
If my jet is bigger won't that cause my engine to run even more rich. I even took my scooter to a shop and asked them to jet it properly paid them 135 and now I'm finding out they didn't do it right what dicks! Also I take it since my jets are not right that could be what's causing the issue with the high end loss of acceleration and small back fire?
Thanks again for all the assistance
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I am talking about the pilot jet Not the main. The pilot is Much smaller. That is the one that controls idle thru mid range.
Your backfire/loss of power is from the cdi restriction. It prevents any higher rpm's. Find the de restrict thread, and take care of that, and post back with your Pilot jet size.
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I see cool! Thanks I upped the pilot one size when i did all the mods and I think it's a 25. They also increase in increments of 5 so I'll buy a 35 and see how that works
And I'll find that de restricting thread for my CDI
Thanks again for your help
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No problem at all. Your 25 pilot wont run a toaster so that is you biggest issue right now. I'd get a 35-40-45. My bet would be 40.
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So I actually had a 30 in there, I swapped it for a 35 that I had from before and I'm waiting for the 40 to come in the mail. The mix screw is now 4 turns til it idles properly. How many turns should my main jet screw be turned from snug? Also I currently have an ngk br8hs spark plug and my friend was saying I should have a br9hs and I was reading about the iridium plugs and was thinking I might should get one of those?? Any thoughts on why my miles per gallon is so horrible?
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Since you are now at four turns the 40 should bring you to 2 turns which is good. The main jet has no screw. There is a needle that slides into it. The needle should be set with the circlip in the center slot. If you have an adjustable needle. If not get one. There may be someone here that has a spare that will work.
As for the plug heat range... It is more important to have a colder plug with an engine running at/near WOT all the time. For everyday cruising a colder plug fouls quickly, and is not a good idea. I think yours also takes an NGK BR8HSA. That is a very different plug. I use the HS plugs for tuning, and the HSA's for running.
You are going to have to sort out the jetting/needle/plug before worrying about MPG. The main will affect your WOT issues so try getting it to run great at low speed/ 1/2 throttle, and we will get the WOT part after that.
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Got it, I'll get the 40 installed and hunt down a br8hsa plug
Thanks again I really appreciate you taking the time to teach me a few things
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I'm just paying it back Bro. Everyday I learn something here as well. (not always scooter related but, new)
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I was riding to work today and the loss of acceleration problem became a lot worse
It wasn't backfiring anymore but after riding WOT for a mile or so it started cutting out a lot.
Before it would just do it once then it would stop and not do it again for a long while but today it cut off numerous times, then I got to a light and stopped and it didn't do it again the rest of the way. Is this still the CDI, I looked for the de restricting post but the only one I found was the one that tells you to call and have them send you a de restricted one. I couldn't find the one explaining how to do it without buying a new one??
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I looked at every post about CDI and I have the same one as on this one post that swears there is no restriction on my rev limit so now I'm a little worried about why it's cutting out
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SOrry for all the posts, it's not actually cutting out it runs much smoother 1/4 to 1/2 and even wide open it's not even really cutting out completely its more like a sputter and it only happens after Ive been going for a bit but it keeps happenIng and I have to keep letting of the gas the going and repeat or it will just keep sputtering. Any thoughts??
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It sounds like it's fouling the plug. Can you remove the plug, and post a Pict of it? If not this may help...http://www.verrill.com/moto/sellingguide/sparkplugs/plugcolorchart.htm (http://www.verrill.com/moto/sellingguide/sparkplugs/plugcolorchart.htm)
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thanks for the link!
it looks like I have a mix between an oil foul and a carbon foul
the tip of the plug is clean and dry but has a charcoal grey color to it
but the threads of the plug look somewhat wet with what looks like oil
here is a pic
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...thats one rich plug!!!
..the clean electrode says its running in a decent heat range, but dang...that looks rich to me!!...
..one thing i learned in my S9/malossi air filter tuning trials, was that if your oil is too rich, you cannot get a good plug reading...
..mines was never black, like th one in your pic, usually lighter, with "varnish" looking deposits inside, down around the mix ring...
..extremely oil-rich mix will create a very dirty electrode build-up, that will fuse the two electrodes together...
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I knew it was rich but an 85 main jet is lean so I have to run with the 90
My oil/gas mixes itself and I have no idea how to adjust how much oil mixes with my gas
Also I currently have my stock air box on
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..you can drill that 85 out a bit....
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I agree. (have too or he'll hate mail me). Do you have the manual? You need to try two things... Adjust the oil pump to the correct setting. That would be lining up the "v" notch on the cam/dial with the line on the housing at full throttle. (bike off) and use ONLY a good quality 2 stroke oil made for Injector pump engines.
Buy two new plugs, and drain out your oil from the tank. Refill with the proper oil, and run it with one of the plugs for one tank of fuel. Adding a few ounces of Sea Foam will help to clean out the gook inside the carb, and engine. Then swap the plug, and recheck the condition. If you want to post another plug pict. take the Pict. so that we can see inside the bottom of the electrode. From there you will be able to tackle any jetting issues.
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..you can drill that 85 out a bit....
..wait...oem airbox, and an 85 is lean???
..well, that dont sound right...
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The 85 may appear lean due to too much oil. Sort out the oil first. Worry about jetting later
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...are you reading the plug tip, or the mix ring, ninja?
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Sort out the oil first
...true that!
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The plug tip on the 85 jet was white and ashy
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..this issa pic of a oil pump that is indexed wwaayy too far, on hard WOT throttle pull...
..the "V"s should line up in the center...
..this shorted the plug in less than 50 miles...
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I'm using motul 700 fully synthetic is that oil ok?
And I just got 4 of the correct spark plugs today
Had a br8hs and I just put in a br8hsa today and now that I figured out the whole air/fuel mix screw and how to adjust it I was thinking about trying the 85 jet again with the right size pilot jet
I never messed with how the oil mixes into the fuel it should still be set to the factory setting
I'll def check it out though
Thanks again for all the help
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.....the hsa, is a bit longer than the hs...
..it puts your plug's tip further into the head, which can be a good or bad thing...
..i saw a zx that run like sh** witha hs...loved the hsa....
..my 50cc S9 prefers the hs...
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I'm using motul 700 fully synthetic is that oil ok?
..ive never used it, but is it specified for use in oil-injected engines?
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It says it is, and it's like $12 or $13 for a quart so it better be good for that price
I've used sea foam before to clean out stuff just not all the time
I also just read the other day to not use gas with ethanol in it so i
Filled my tank for the first time today with ethanol free gas though I'm not sure
What the significance is
It's storming really bad so I'll have to see how the new plug runs tomorrow
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...yeah, ethanol and aluminum aint good friends...
..we have eth added in the winter months around here...
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I'm not sure which parts of my scooter are aluminum but I guess since I've been running ethanol in my gas I made a good decision in buying the cast iron 70cc cylinder instead of the alluminom
If i was going to try and install an open air filter instead of my stock box how approx how many jet sizes would I need to increase?
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...wowww...that's a damned good jet question...
...i'm running my S9lc with a 38 pilot, and a 117 main...
...had a people that liked a oem pilot and a 110 main...
...free-flow air filters, and oem exhaust...
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The smart money is on anything over 100. Did you just get the Moutol, or is that what you've been using all along?
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Yeah right now I have a 35 pilot and a 90 main but obviously the mix isn't right so I am going to focus on figuring the right mix out with what I have before I go replacing the air box. Someone else said the like 50's where very picky about installing an free flow filter anyway and that I should just stick with the regular box
I've been using it all along, one of my friends that has a scooter suggested it
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I have seen it work GREAT in MX bikes, and Jet ski's but I have No experience with it in scoots. I'd double check the pump setting, and take it from there. The HSA's will burn better for you too. Is this a NEW kit? Just installed? I'm tired, and don't want to look backwards..
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..i think itsa 50...and that's what bugs me so...
..should be spot-on, with oem box and jets...??? ..pipe?
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I've had the 70cc kit for 4k or so, and the tecnigas rs-ii pipe as well
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..wwell, guess i missed a few posts...lol..
..i did experience something like that with my s9...i tried running the tech next, with both my oem box, and a malossi filter...
..had terrible issues with sputtering off idle..plug looked bad rich...
..i put my oem pipe back on, and tuned to just the filter...
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WOW. Maybe the oil is what kept you safe. well OEM airbox goes a long way to saving a lean jet too. Give it a shot with the corrected pump, and the plug. Try not to get into 1/2-wot until you get the pilot jet right, and then you can work on the midrange thru top Is this still the OEM carb? Does it have an adjustable needle?
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...nmo, none of the oem needles are adjustable, in my experience...
..they require mods to be able to run open air filters....
..in my exp, and all...
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It's an arreche 19mm carb and I'm not sure if the needle itself is adjustable
How could I tell?
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Yeah I was sputtering like crazy and it would shut off complely until I started adjusting the fuel air mix screw and upped my pilot, now it stays running at idle and almost runs perfect 1/4 to 1/2 still a minor sputter at 1/4 throttle
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It's adjustable... Pull the cap off, and the slide will come out. Inside the slide is the needle. Making the needle higher makes the mix richer, and versa viisa. Your jet is perfect when the needle is in the middle so you can go either way a notch or two for temp/humidity. If you are lean on the 85, and rich on the 90 try the 90 with the needle lowered one or two clips from where it is now. That should get you on the money.
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Awesome when I get the 40 pilot in the mail I'll make the adjustments
Thank you so much for all the help I greatly appreciate it
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Anytime Like!
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Just so I understand when u say making the needle higher that means 5 being the highest slot and 1 being the lowest if the needle is at 2 I would move it up to 3 or 4 right?
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Also how come everywhere I read it says that if my air mix screw is past 1.5 turns I need a smaller pilot jet
That clearly wasn't the case unless changing from a 30 to a 40 is downsizing cause as I changed from a 30-35-40 my air mix screw has gone from 6-4-?
Also if my piston rings are worn or my reeds have a gap in them could this be causing my mixture to run rich? If so any idea where I can purchase a reed valve assembly? I have found tons of websites with the malossi carbon fiber reeds or reed paper but I can't seem to find an assembly that fits my scooter.
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Just so I understand when u say making the needle higher that means 5 being the highest slot and 1 being the lowest if the needle is at 2 I would move it up to 3 or 4 right?
What I mean is raising the needle higher out of the jet makes the jet richer from about 1/2 throttle on. Lowering it makes the jet leaner. It is kind of a fine tunning portal for the main jet.
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Also how come everywhere I read it says that if my air mix screw is past 1.5 turns I need a smaller pilot jet
That clearly wasn't the case unless changing from a 30 to a 40 is downsizing cause as I changed from a 30-35-40 my air mix screw has gone from 6-4-?
Also if my piston rings are worn or my reeds have a gap in them could this be causing my mixture to run rich? If so any idea where I can purchase a reed valve assembly? I have found tons of websites with the malossi carbon fiber reeds or reed paper but I can't seem to find an assembly that fits my scooter.
You are thinking TOO much Like. Some carbs have air screws, and some have fuel screws. 1.5 turns is the MINIMUM amount of counter clockwise screw turns you want. The Maximum is 3.5. 2.5 is perfect.
Your screw controls FUEL flow at idle/low speed. A bigger jet Naturally provides more fuel so you need to lessen the flow with your "fuel control idle mix screw." Please don't get into the big words explanations. I'm too old. You can get reed blanks at ANY cycle shop. Or malossi custom at SPI, or I can get them for you at 10% off. malossiparts101@gmail.com
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Cool sorry for the confusion...
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No worries Bro... Just thinking too much causes cancer.
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Haha it's def been a long and on going process to learn all about my scooter being the scooter virgin that I am, but I'm def enjoying it! I love learning and workin on my scooter
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I checked out that SIP site for the reed assembly and I must be a retard cause I still can't find one for my like 50, anyway u could help me hunt it down
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Scooter Parts International | 1-800-591-2670 Ask for Louie
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So I contacted louie and even mailed him a sketch of what my reed valve assembly looks like and he couldnt match it to any reed valve assembly he had
I really need to find replacement reed petals that fit my stock assembly or a new reed valve assembly that uses the reed petals that came with the 70cc kit
any help would be greatly appreciated
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that was a pick of the reed valve assembly and here is a pick of the reed petals
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If you have the 2t like 50 and i am not mistaken that is the same engine used in the ppl's, cobras, a.c s9's... The reed block you posted looks the same as well.....
Check and see if they are indeed the same.. i do believe they are. That'll save you a lot of head aches. ;)
I can look after my shower if need be tho...
The part number is SLIGHTLY off but the diagrams/pics are the same... imma gambling man... I just bet they are.. I seen a like at school recently and it was identical to the ppl engine
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Thanks a lot for your response, I really appreciate your help! I still can't seem to find an aftermarket reed block but I'm going to get the malossi carbon fiber reed petals they market for the ppl 50 and hope they fit my current reed block
In searching numerous sites for parts I came accross something called a boost bootle. I understand the theory of why they would work but are they truely beneficial
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Only in rotary valve engines. They have no valid use in reed valve engines.
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I got the 40 pilot jet installed, I pulled the cylinder apart and replaced the piston rings, there was no scratches or anything on the piston or inside the cylinder
just looked like normal wear and tear. Inside the cylinder and the sides of the piston where completely smooth I didnt feel even the slightest scratch anywhere. The top of the piston was black is that normal? I bought the 20mm intake and found some reed petals that apparently fit my reed block. Guy who sold me the reed petals says my reed block is big enough to handle all the upgrades. Waiting for those parts to come in the mail. With the 40 pilot installed it seems to run fine 1/4 to 1/2 and my air/fuel mix screw is at 3 turns from snug. It sputters really bad 1/2 to WOT with the 90 main jet. I seem to still be getting oil into the combustion chamber and its fouling my plug. Can faulty reed petals cause this? if not what could?
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I also got the silencer reps led. There is also a lot more white smoke coming from the exhaust. It has always smoked some but now it's super noticeable
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It sounds too rich on the 90. try an 85 and see. The richer pilot is the contributer. You could try lowering the needle a notch or two to check. That may be all it needs
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Cool, I'll swap it up and let you know how it goes! Thanks again for all the help
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I didnt have an 85 jet so I had to order it, while I was waiting since I had a free-flow malossi air filter I decided to just put it on to see what would happen. With the 40 pilot and the 90 main jet it sputters at 1/4 throttle to almost 1/2 but then it kicks in and goes. The plug is no longer wet at all but it still has this matte black sooty Film on it. Where it creates the spark is completely dry and almost looks like the brown color it should be. It is 3 turns out from snug on the mix screw. It's also seems like once it gets really warmed up and I have opened it up all the way at least once the sputters are not as noticible at 1/4 to 1/2
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If you lower your needle 1 notch it will be fine. If you dan't lower the needle then try a 38 pilot. Either one will work.
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Cool! I'll give the needle adjusting a shot, when I was putting the 40 pilot in I didn't see how the needle would adjust, but they don't have 38 pilots for the arreche so I'll take a look again. The arreche has been I giant pain in the ass to tune are dellorto's easier to work with. My friend has one he said he would just give me that has never been used
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Delorto's are just as hard to work on. You have to remove it from the engine. But they are much better carbs overall. Parts are everywhere. I would give it a shot.
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I got some new carbon fiber reed petals and tried putting them on but they don't sit snug on the valve assembly. Is there a trick to getting them to stay flat and not leave a gap between the petal and the valve assembly?
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You may have Over tightened them. The screws need to be just SNUG, and blue Lock Tite MUST be used. Try loosening them to see if they sit flat. If not something is warped. You can flat file or block sand the cage, and I would test the reeds to see if they are flat on a pane of glass.
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Cool I'll try that, I dropped the needle and the sputters at 1/4 to 1/2 are practically no existant now. It sputters just slightly. I'm going to do a plug test today. Even with all the mods I've done it seems that it doesn't want to pass the 50mph mark. Am I ever going to be able to get it to run 50 or 55 with out having to go down a hill?
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Yeah... The Like can do it. It's all in patiently adjusting/re adjusting, and finally hitting it with a mallet.
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Delorto's are just as hard to work on. You have to remove it from the engine. But they are much better carbs overall. Parts are everywhere. I would give it a shot.
Whaat? :( Man, Dellortos are my all-time favorite. Have you tried the PHBG Racing setup yet? The one with the screw-on throttle cap and the main jet bolt in the bottom of the bowl? Those two things make them a lot easier to tune.
(http://www.dellortodirect.com/images/1977_moped_parts_Dellorto-19mm-PHBG---Racing-Edition-254.jpg)
Hope you're doing well!
~Josh
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I haven't used the race versions. I was referring to the basic phgb. A carb with a bowl access plug, and screw off cap is really what you want. Saves alot of wear, and tear, as well as time.
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Whaat? Man
...i need me one of those for the 75cc ppl build....
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Let me know. Check out the cost at Racing Planet, and SPI. I have accounts at both.
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That carb looks exactly like the one my friend gave me. I guess I might be trying that one out soon
Need to buy the jets for it and the manual choke cable
Any idea around what size jets I would need for that perticular carb
Is it hard to convert from an automatic choke to a manual choke?
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..i been dealing with RP for a while...love their free shipping over 99...overseas stock deliveries can take a while tho...
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I just wait. But there is always that one more part to get...
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I just wait
..yup...
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I just installed a malossi delta clutch, torque spring, belt and a new tire this morning. Now my scoot is making this vibration when I hit 40 to 45mph. Is that just the parts being new and needing to break in. I did notice that as I drove around it was very slowly getting better. Should I be worried? Did I install them wrong?
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If the tire bead is fully seated you may have an out of round tire. Run it up on the center stand to see.
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What does an out of round tire mean? What should I be looking for? Can I fix it or will I have to buy a new tire
Also noticed tonight when I let of the throttle it feels like my scooter still just keeps going for a few seconds then all of a sudden it lets up
I'm still fouling the plug at WOT I'm going to try an 85 jet now that I have it and adjust my needle up and see how that runs
In the pack of reed petals I found 2 that were perfectly flat but the screw holes on the petals don't match up with the holes on the cage so it makes them bend when u screw them on
I drilled the holes out so they would line up right and used blue loctite and they still don't sit flat
I'm going to order a new reed cage from kymco I guess and see if that works
Thanks again for all the help
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Have you tried block sanding your cage? I use 200gr paper on a pane of glass to "true" all sorts of parts. It could be your cage has taken a warp from being installed. If you do decide to true it use 200 then 600 then 1500 to polish
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So I was riding home yesterday and the end cap on my silencer just fell off the carbon fiber tube the cap that connects to the pipe and the bolts are all still there just the end piece and all the packing material fell out! It is crazy loud, I ordered a replacement silencer,
Any reason why this would have happened?
Anything I can do for now to quite it down a bit while I wait For the replacement?
It won't damage anything running with out it will it?
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You can re pack it with common fiberglass. It will allow the engine to run lean so I would repair it before any riding.
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I dont have any other mode of transportation so I am going to have to atleast ride it to and from work
I thought the same thing so
I did a plug test today and it is still running rich
I have the needle on the lowest setting, 40 pilot at 3.5 turns now that it got really hot I had to turn it out further to keep it idling
90 main jet, I still feel I need a bigger pilot cause it sputters at 1/4 throttle but they dont sell a bigger one
I even removed the box air filter and it still doesnt fix the richness
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Have you tested the auto choke? It may be stuck partially on.
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nope how do I do that?
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Remove the choke, and mark the tip where it enters the tube. Turn on the key, and note how far the tip moves. It must be 4mm minimum.
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My friend gave me the dellorto racing 19 phbg carb today, I looked at it and it has a 75 main jet and a 60 slow jet or I'm reading it upside down and it's a 09, I also have a cable and a choke assembly that you twist and pull. The cable only had one of those metal nubs on it the other end is just a 1/2 in of non bendable cable does that mean the cable is defective. Also how do I set up the manual choke, with the twist assembly?
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http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=delorto+19mm+instructions&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&channel=suggest (http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=delorto+19mm+instructions&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&channel=suggest)
Something here will have it all