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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Vivo on June 15, 2012, 08:25:50 AM
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Our country has been exercising effective jurisdiction over this area ever since. Now the Chinese wants it. They claim this belongs to the Chinese. The Scarborough shoal is a very rich fishing ground and full of endangered species. Many Chinese fishing vessels were intercepted by our coast guard and others were fishing endangered marine life from these shoals. Now the Chinese government steps in and is claiming the area. The Chinese had been harassing us by flying jet fighters inside Philippine territory, showing their war ships, making threatening comments on radio, hacking Philippine Websites, etc.
China is becoming a super power and I don't know what leverage our country has. A month ago, a shipload of bananas from the Phils to China was dumped in the ocean because they claim they were not good and banned bananas from the Phils. China is our number 1 banana customer. The ban lasted for a few days and they said they will now allow Phil. bananas. This was just a show of their capability and nothing more.
I know this is not a problem of your countries but this is a nice topic, right? Shall we just give in to the Chinese? We don't have war ships or jet fighters.. Shall we call Uncle Sam? ... Again? Will Uncle Sam give a damn?
The shoal is 530 miles from China.
It's 138 miles from the Phils.
(http://www.phil-euro-bulletin.com/wp-content/uploads/Scrborough.jpg)
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The shoal is 530 miles from China.
It's 138 miles from the Phils.
(http://www.phil-euro-bulletin.com/wp-content/uploads/Scrborough.jpg)
Remember Falklands, UK and Argentina.
Distance is not important, power is.
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The Falklands is NEVER British, in fact i dont even call them the Falklands anymore, its the Maldives :)
How the hell the English think they can call an island off South America british just shows how ridiculous and selfish they are. We never heard nothing about those islands since the "war", course once oil was found it all suddenly became a major issue again.......
The Argentinian pres is going thro the UN i believe to try get the land back, good luck, hope she wins the support.
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Chinese aggression was never an issue when Clark Field and Subic Bay were operational.
Of course, the Chinese were limited in their capabilities at the time, but now they are undeterred. Sorry about that.
Who knew there was ever a benefit from an association with the US and A.
Maybe Scotland can help. At the very least they could offer a sincere expression of indignant disapproval.
We have a special affinity for the Phillipines here in New Mexico, ever since the New Mexico National Guard was sent for garrison duty before the war with Japan because of their Spanish heritage.
They were the men who marched to Battaan after being betrayed by surrender. They wanted to fight to the last man, but then they lost 680 on the march, and the Filipinos lost over 10,000 to the cruelty of their captors. I saw an interview of 3 of the survivors on local TV last week, it was kinda hard to watch when they talked about what it was like.
C'est la vie
C'est la guerre
C'est la dirty stinky underwear
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China is out of control. I mean that in a "Bully just found his muscles kinda" way. The only action that gets attention any more is force. The US won't do anything to help because China now owns more of the US than it's citizens. I never think of th Philippines as an aggressor on the world stage so I would believe an alliance with another country. Perhaps India? Japan is out as they are much worse than China when it comes to illegal fishing.
Why not treat these issues like everyday people would... Stop selling everything to China. Boycot them! Sell for half the price to anyone else just not China. The US dollar built chinas economy into a world power, and now the results are being seen. Treat them like the bullies they are developing into.
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China is out of control. I mean that in a "Bully just found his muscles kinda" way. The only action that gets attention any more is force. The US won't do anything to help because China now owns more of the US than it's citizens. I never think of th Philippines as an aggressor on the world stage so I would believe an alliance with another country. Perhaps India? Japan is out as they are much worse than China when it comes to illegal fishing.
Why not treat these issues like everyday people would... Stop selling everything to China. Boycot them! Sell for half the price to anyone else just not China. The US dollar built chinas economy into a world power, and now the results are being seen. Treat them like the bullies they are developing into.
This "right now" is small potatoes for the US and even China, however I don't trust either country to handle this above board. I can see this or any similar situation being manipulated into an all out war.
Let's look at it this way, China invades Philippines fishing grounds, the Philippines gets upset over this and places sanctions against China and maybe even disrupts the China fishing fleet. China strikes back in some form or fashion and then the US comes to the defense of the Philippines, first via diplomatic ways then with might. A war breaks out as a way of turning our economy around and establishing our dominance throughout the world once again.
Don't say it can't happen.
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Chinese J-20, a Raptor F-22 copy. Maybe just like the Chinese scoots. Piece of junk.
They may have the arms but don't have any AIR WARFARE EXPERIENCE.
Again, a "bully just found his muscles" thing...
(http://defensetech.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/J20landing.jpg)
We have the old n' reliable F-16 and some Tora-tora WWII planes.
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSOD7HcXf0h4bDTyehzK-FG9p1bLKQkYQaHEqt-M3rd_1HGvBSF)
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Even if that China sh** copy plane fell out of the sky it would destroy 3/4 of the Philli. Air Force. Like the Italian Navy... Glass bottoms to pay homage to the prior ships.
Ok bad jokes... The Japanese have recently abandoned the Antarctic fishing grounds as political pressure built. Perhaps a similar scenario will play out there. There is NO WAY one country can take over another's near shore fishing grounds. It may be for the short term, but as 008 pointed out it COULD lead to an economic melt down, or war in the end.
Elect me Pres. and I will send China to it's room for 72hrs, and Everyone from Jersey will be allowed to leave before I have it bull dozed under. That should fix that.
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I want to live in Naga! So make the Chink's go away.
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Hmmm..Naga.. home of pili nuts
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/577529_10150809788580190_747670189_11753395_32165633_n.jpg)
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Egg zactlee! Sitting at the bar with an umbrella drink, beautiful women in coconut bras, scooters growing from the volcanic soil, and a bowl of pills to chew on from the bar. What could be better than that! Ahhhhh my future home sweet home...
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Mayon volcano with its perfect cone seen from Naga.....
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_7zwOrQu6ckw/RwVTFPA3LsI/AAAAAAAAJaw/RHLHGs2HSK8/s400/161542187_4e5a7b7e5a_o.jpg)
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Just have to pull off one more big bank job, and I'm on my way... OOOPPPPSSSS!!! Un post!!!
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I've been reading a bit, and it does appear that you live in a small corner of heaven. Generally speaking tho it is more heavenly for "locals" than immigrants. That is really of no bother to me tho. After all I'm a Yank living in the middle of the Red Neck Rivera. And with a bowl of pills on the bar... Who cares!
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I've been reading a bit, and it does appear that you live in a small corner of heaven. Generally speaking tho it is more heavenly for "locals" than immigrants. That is really of no bother to me tho. After all I'm a Yank living in the middle of the Red Neck Rivera. And with a bowl of pills on the bar... Who cares!
Lots of immigrants here mostly retirees. They just deposit retirement money with the banks there in the US, live here, withdraw their monthly interest thru wire, spend it here and enjoy... fly back to the states for some things, then back to the islands.
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I am a STAY PUT kinda guy. Put up a "Boat Repairs" sign, kick back with my dogs, and wait for the Herbs to dry... Really just an apartment above a nice shop, a few lawn chairs, and I'm good to go.
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and a computer....
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Figured I could make one out of coconut shells, and salt water. Good call... I'd surely go stir crazy without my knowledge base.
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Stop selling everything to China. Boycot them! Sell for half the price to anyone else just not China. The US dollar built chinas economy into a world power, and now the results are being seen. Treat them like the bullies they are developing into.
This is simply not possible because they have the most money.
Brits were bullies of the past, USA are bullies of today and tomorrow there will be some other bullies. Probably multi-polar world with Russia, China and USA in the role of declining empire.
Walmart is the biggest corporation in the world. You'd have to shut down Walmart because it sells mostly Chinese goods. We, (the West) do not produce anything anymore and we depend on China now.
As the things progress, China that has its new economic power will soon ask for political power too. And military.
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I do know you are more right than wrong. I really have NO IDEA how to address such a situation. Boycotting sure did one hell of a job on Cuba tho... Same with Chili, and Panama, and African nations of all sorts. It is more a matter of People co operating, and getting used to doing with what they need vs what they want. IDK...
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China will implode on itself eventually. No way their infrastructure is going to hold up to its own demand and time itself. I give it 15 years. I'd like to move to Brazil or New Zealand. F'n gorgeous and stable. If I had no family here I would leave in a second.
BTW Croatia is a beautiful country too axy. Would like to visit someday.
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China will implode on itself eventually. No way their infrastructure is going to hold up to its own demand and time itself
You mean like the US? Or England? Or Mesopotamia? Or Persia? Or Rome? Or Egypt? Or well yeah. I do believe you are right.
Croatia is beautiful. So many temperate climate areas are... To bad I Hate the cold. Imagine the luck...
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You mean like the US? Or England? Or Mesopotamia? Or Persia? Or Rome? Or Egypt? Or well yeah. I do believe you are right.
Exactly!
And imagine the time, attention to detail, and effort that was paid building and planing those infrastructures compared to what the Chinese are doing.
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This is why I get so pissed off when one of the topics of an election year is gay marriage. Are we going to care about gay marriage when there's no running water, no sewage, no transit systems. Our bridges, roads, water supplies, and power grids are decaying and we're talking about gay marriage >:(. These are the things that make the country work. Don't people realize where we would be without the trucking industry alone? Year 1890. No grocery stores, no gasoline, no Walmart. I'm sorry but Christianity should not be a part of our government. I honestly don't care if gay people get married, but why don't supporters of it realize there are much more important things to worry about right now. Suck it up. That's my new saying.
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China will implode on itself eventually. No way their infrastructure is going to hold up to its own demand and time itself. I give it 15 years. I'd like to move to Brazil or New Zealand. F'n gorgeous and stable. If I had no family here I would leave in a second.
BTW Croatia is a beautiful country too axy. Would like to visit someday.
The regime in China is holding back the demand. You cannot move and live where you want in China, they have a national registration system
I hope you are joking about moving to Brazil. Crime and slums all over the place. Rampant criminal. Not much better than Mexico.
Croatia is nice, but not so nice if you have to do business here. The highest taxation in the world, bureaucracy and declining local purchasing power.
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This is why I get so pissed off when one of the topics of an election year is gay marriage. Are we going to care about gay marriage when there's no running water, no sewage, no transit systems. Our bridges, roads, water supplies, and power grids are decaying and we're talking about gay marriage >:(. These are the things that make the country work. Don't people realize where we would be without the trucking industry alone? Year 1890. No grocery stores, no gasoline, no Walmart. I'm sorry but Christianity should not be a part of our government. I honestly don't care if gay people get married, but why don't supporters of it realize there are much more important things to worry about right now. Suck it up. That's my new saying.
And they have millions in funding studies on how fruit flies multiply...
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I think doing what I do works pretty well... Eat everyones brain. That way eventually I will be the smartest person. I'll have all the brains! Other than that there is really nothing any of us can do except quit caring. Maybe go slap an elderly person for fun but not much else to do.
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I might be old but I can still shoot, drive ships and what ever you or the PI needs. Just call and if I can figure out a way to get there I will help in any way.
Karl
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I might be old but I can still shoot, drive ships and what ever you or the PI needs. Just call and if I can figure out a way to get there I will help in any way.
Karl
Right on Karl!!!
We're not old, we're experienced with a nice patina. :D
If youre passing Scotland pick me up on the way, Vivo may be a pain in the ass but he's got Rum over there :P
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I'LL WAIT FOR YOU GUYS!! I'LL KEEP THE RUM COLD!!!
YES, WE'RE NOT OLD, JUST WISER...
(http://www.strangecosmos.com/images/content/136039.jpg)
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That's the scooter they used to ram down doors in Carrabelle. One guy gets in back, and knocks the top of the air bottles while the other holds the brakes. It's really something to see
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This is simply not possible because they have the most money.
Brits were bullies of the past, USA are bullies of today and tomorrow there will be some other bullies. Probably multi-polar world with Russia, China and USA in the role of declining empire.
Walmart is the biggest corporation in the world. You'd have to shut down Walmart because it sells mostly Chinese goods. We, (the West) do not produce anything anymore and we depend on China now.
As the things progress, China that has its new economic power will soon ask for political power too. And military.
People never really became civilized.... another thread..
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Latest news: China is planning to give military training and arm their fishermen to defend themselves in cases of attacks. This is pure intimidation. Geez! Not only that they will cross our territory and do illegal fishing but now they have weapons....
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Sea Sheppard?? Kevlar prop foulers...
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I hate that show... F'in tree huggers
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When nerds attack...
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When nerds attack...
Exxactly!....... My xx key sticks and I'm tired of deleting one x every time I type it. Deal with it bitcezz
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I honestly don't care if gay people get married, but why don't supporters of it realize there are much more important things to worry about right now. Suck it up. That's my new saying.
:) -- Phrasing.
I suppose that's like going back to the 50's and 60's and telling a Black person there are more important things to worry about than the Civil Rights issue. If it directly affects you then it's important. I do wish infrastructure would be a major issue of discussion during the election though. It could create jobs and get us out of this quagmire.
So far it doesn't seem like the gay marriage issue's part of the election conversation at the moment, but I disagree on Christianity being part of the government. Full separation of Church and State. Douchebags like Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachman, Rick Santorum, and Rick Perry scare the sh** out of me. They're essentially Christian versions of the Taliban if not full on batsh** crazy. Just look at what Bachman's doing in the news at the moment.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/18/john-mccain-michele-bachmann-muslim_n_1683277.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/18/john-mccain-michele-bachmann-muslim_n_1683277.html)
-Wolf
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it's beginning....
China To Deploy Military To Sansha
July 22, 2012, 9:08pm
MANILA, Philippines — China will establish a military presence in its newly established city of Sansha, which covers a vast expanse of the flashpoint South China Sea (West Philippine Sea) including islands within the Philippines’ territory.
In a news report posted on Chinese government website gov.cn, Beijing announced that its central military authority “has approved to form and deploy a military garrison in the newly established city of Sanshaâ€.
The online report posted Saturday said China’s Central Military Commission (CMC) had authorized the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) Guangzhou Military Command to set up the garrison.
The PLA refers to China’s unified military force and is also the world’s largest with three million members.
“The garrison command will be a division-level command under the PLA’s Hainan provincial sub-command, responsible for managing the city’s national defense mobilization, military reserves and carrying out military operations. The PLA’s Sansha Garrison Command will be under the dual leadership of the Hainan provincial sub-command and the city’s civilian leaders,†the report stated.
China has also just recently begun forming a legislative body for Sansha which in turn will create a government for the new city.
According to Beijing, Sansha City administers over 200 islets, sandbanks and reefs in Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha islands, covering 13 square kilometers in island area and two million square kilometers of water.
The Philippine government, through a Note Verbale issued by the Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) to Chinese Ambassador Ma Keqing last June 28, had protested the formation of Sansha.
DFA said it is protesting the inclusion of Kalayaan Island Group (KIG) and Bajo de Masinloc (BJM) under China’s new prefecture.
Both of KIG and BJM are within the Philippines’ 200-nautical mile Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ), as provided under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) to which Beijing is a signatory.
The Philippine government first established a municipality covering nine islands, sandbars and reefs in KIG back in 1978, the Department noted. Mayor Eugenio Bito-onon heads the municipality, which is considered part of Palawan.
China’s decision to send its military to Sansha came at the heels of a statement from its Foreign Ministry spokesman expressing Beijing’s willingness to quell tensions at the volatile waters through the implementation of a code of conduct, being a dialogue partner of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN).
“The Chinese side is willing to work together with the ASEAN members to implement the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC) comprehensively and effectively,†Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said.
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“The garrison command will be a division-level command under the PLA’s Hainan provincial sub-command, responsible for managing the city’s national defense mobilization, military reserves and carrying out military operations. The PLA’s Sansha Garrison Command will be under the dual leadership of the Hainan provincial sub-command and the city’s civilian leaders,†the report stated."
I think Hitler tried that in France... Look how that turned out!
I can only assume that China is perched to take whatever they want. They have too many mouths, and a few cans of dolphin meat for school kids won't harm anything. The issue is not really fishing grounds... This is a full on deployment of troops to bully the smaller nations. You KNOW the US will not intervene. Not on a fishing grounds deal. It's all a preparatory deployment of troops, and an expansion of territory. China is poised to take over fellas. North Korea will take the blame for dropping a few bombs, and we will all speak Chinese if we survive.
The original fruit/monkey eaters are coming back.
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Don't worry Wolf... The Chinese think black people are cute. They just want the washed out whites out of the way. A whole planet populated by Tiger Woods looking people...
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Don't worry -- I'm always worried. As they say 'y'all only gonna git arrested, but me ... I'm gonna git hung!'
I'm not certain the US will look the other way. From what I understand the US has been beefing up their presence around the Philippines and Australia because of China's military presence. Of course China could be doing this because they fear our presence there too.
-Wolf
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Snow ball effect... Someones gonna get hurt. People tend to forget about North Korea. They HAVE a grudge to settle. This is some serious sh** that's happening, and brother Vivo is in the middle of it all. I guess just a few prayers, and some crossed fingers/thumbs up... Till I think of anything better.
This is really overwhelming. People with power all seem to turn into sh**! Non sense
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Snow ball effect... Someones gonna get hurt. People tend to forget about North Korea. They HAVE a grudge to settle. This is some serious sh** that's happening, and brother Vivo is in the middle of it all. I guess just a few prayers, and some crossed fingers/thumbs up... Till I think of anything better.
This is really overwhelming. People with power all seem to turn into sh**! Non sense
so i guess it's not a "fish" issue... is it oil maybe? Spratley Islands (one of the islands here) I think has oil. Many also are claiming the Spratley Islands, 6 of us.. China, Vietnam, Phils., Etc...
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No, What I mean is China NEEEEEEEDS food. They HAVVVVVVVVVVVE to go get it because they don't have it. That area is not a great shipping lane or there is no need to have control for transporting oil thru there. The amount of oil in the region is far less than other easier geographically accessible reserves so It's not really about that. It's more about storage/supply, and staging on a global conquest theory/stratagem. The area has always been about convenience/strategic importance to the US, and we have sen Most of the light, and decreased our grip on a nation we have no claim to. China has seen this, and is poising to claim the area as their "stage". Most of this may just slide under the radar, as I can assure you I have heard nothing about this in any media except for my own searching it out. China will get their base(s), the US will say it is in the interest of "fair trade", and your countries resources will be shipped to a bunch of slant y eyed commies lighting their cigars with flaming capacitors, and drinking all YOUR rum. While the "starving masses" have weeds, and grubs to eat. It's disgusting!
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I just don't wanna see the PI crapped on again, ever. Even the US crapped on them in several ways while I was there for nearly 20 years. The people of the PI were crapped on by Marcos. You bet your mess kit this is over OIL! South China Sea is rich in oil deposits and the Chicom government will do anything to anybody to get it regardless. Our own "American" businessmen will do anything for a buck including selling out to the Chicoms.
Karl
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I just don't wanna see the PI crapped on again, ever. Even the US crapped on them in several ways while I was there for nearly 20 years. The people of the PI were crapped on by Marcos. You bet your mess kit this is over OIL! South China Sea is rich in oil deposits and the Chicom government will do anything to anybody to get it regardless. Our own "American" businessmen will do anything for a buck including selling out to the Chicoms.
Karl
20 years Sir? where at? Marcos was an "American puppet"....
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You all know what the US does to it's "friends" when they are out of money! Throw them under the bus. Like an empty soda bottle. Ask Bin Ladden, or the spider hole guy! Oh my bad... We killed them already. Ok ask Castro what happens when you deal with the US. The Mob put him in, and the Kennedy's took him down. I think we are out of friends here. People do catch on.
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The Americans still want us. After the bases were removed, they still came back and play "war games" as part of their "training", medical missions, disaster trainings, etc. ;D
under the Visiting Forces Agreement.... my ass...
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-rR7JjhGd5fk/T5Q-yi3X8EI/AAAAAAAADhg/cSZ6M0IktBc/s1600/balikatan+shoal.JPG)
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Nice tactic they have there... Catch them all in a cast net!
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My Bad... I thought I threw it... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3-mlLCBrxs#)
That's what happens when you send children to do a mans job!
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Nice tactic they have there... Catch them all in a cast net!
picture, picture,.... look at the birdie!!!... smile!!! one, two... pooof! Yes, another for the papers.... ;)
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Star Wars gangsta rap with Subtitles and Lyrics (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=493ljyoox6o#)
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Now they're in Japan.....
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-14/chinese-ships-enter-waters-close-to-islands-disputed-with-japan.html (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-14/chinese-ships-enter-waters-close-to-islands-disputed-with-japan.html)
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Sorry this took so long to reply, Vivo. I was in and out of mostly Subic from 1960 to 1975.
Karl
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Sorry this took so long to reply, Vivo. I was in and out of mostly Subic from 1960 to 1975.
Karl
Oh hi Karl, nice to know that... now, they converted Subic into a resort. Clark Air Base is now an international airport.