KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 50cc => Agility 50 => Topic started by: Kenho21 on July 13, 2012, 12:45:12 AM
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So I installed my Multivar today along with a 1500 contra as well as a new main jet.
The issue: When I ride now at more than 3/4 throttle or so it starts popping, it started doing this with a 112 main jet, so I up jetted to the largest jet I have a 120 and it's still doing it but a little less.
Also it feels like the engine is working really hard, almost feels like theres some kind of resistance.
Please help!!!!!!! ???
I'm going ::)
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..i cant keep up...
..tell again, what is your setup??
..from air intake, to driven pulley.....
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Free flow air filter modified so that it protrudes out the side (so plenty of air)
120 Main jet
Stock pilot jet
Stock Belt
Malossi Multivar
6g Rollers
1500 Contra
Am I missing anything?
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And 72cc kit
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...you might go ahead and try a 125 jet...dunno your altitude, and humidity and stuff, but it sounds like your upjetting is in the right direction...
..also, with a 72cc, you will probably want a longer belt...
..try a 732-18.5-28 gates premium.....
..sounds to me like you're lean and running available horsepower over your cvt setup, the belt being the weak link...
..then again, i could be waay off base.......
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..ultimately, you gotta chop some plugs to get a good idea what your WOT mix is...
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You don't think running too rich is a possibility?
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it started doing this with a 112 main jet, so I up jetted to the largest jet I have a 120 and it's still doing it but a little less
..you said so,....
but it ...absolutely is a possibility!!!
..havent chopped any plugs, so i really cant say for sure, however...
..it's ever better to err on the rich side, then work back to best...
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True, I have a couple extra plugs. I'm gonna start choppin tomorrow...
I'll let ya know what I find out.
Muchas Gracias
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Oh, and why the new belt? So I get the full potential of the new variator?
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..yes, the 72cc will put waay more torque on your belt...
..the bando works WELL for the oem cc....
...but with a kit, you will need a bit longe, maybe widerr belt to better transfer the added horsepwer and torque increase...
..in my opinion..
;D
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Ahhh, well I'm gonna trust the Kymcoforum process here and order that belt tomorrow then...
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Have you run this belt with the Multivar before?
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Popping in the pipe is lean. Popping in the carb is rich.
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Are you sure the popping is not just because the engine is now reving to hard and the valves are not closing in time.....
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Could be valves but I can't really be sure till I do a couple plug chops.
If that's the case will adjusting them to .03 or so do the trick?
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I have been adjusting the valves hot. I ride about 1/2hr to get it hot, and turn the adjusters by hand till the valve just touches the adjuster, and lock it down. To check it's not too tight I move the rocker back, and forth, It should slide with NO resistance, and have NO play up/down. When I first installed the 50mm kit I was adjusting once a week. Now doing it hot I have set them once, and they are staying quite.
This method is working for me.
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I'm beginning to think it's an air leak somewhere, I'm getting almost no difference with the issue when upsetting to a 120, the largest jet I have. I'm gonna look it over real good tomorrow after work and get to the bottom of this, it's killin me!
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Im sure you can rig up a pressure tester. TSG Tuning Leak Down Pressure Tester - Demonstration (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RzEjXdaEUs#) A bike pump works fine.
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Are the CDI the usual standart CDI with the cut? :)
Because the cut doesnt remove the restriction but moves it to 9000 rpm, which means that at this point, every second charge of fuel will not be ignited, but be thrown directly to the exhaust, where it burns and can be heard. :p
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which means that at this point, every second charge of fuel will not be ignited, but be thrown directly to the exhaust, where it burns and can be heard. :p
..bullsh**...
..ssso with this logic, you should NOT cut that cdi?...
..guess i'm just not following you bro...
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which means that at this point, every second charge of fuel will not be ignited, but be thrown directly to the exhaust, where it burns and can be heard. :p
..bullsh**...
..ssso with this logic, you should NOT cut that cdi?...
..guess i'm just not following you bro...
Sure, you should cut the CDI. If the CDI is uncut, it will just do this at 7000 or 7500 (cant remember where it is restricted to). Cutting the CDI moves the restriction from beneath the top of the effectband to a "safe maximum rpm" (The red line on gear vehicles). This is because that if the rpm rises too high, the valves can start floating because of the air pressing onto the open valve at higher speed, and the piston can end hitting the valve and ruining the whole engine. So when compleately removing the restriction, by installing a CDI with no red line, you should either let a little go of the throttle when at full gearing or install stronger valve springs. That is, if you've got enough power to hit the rpm, where the valves start floating after installing an unrestricted CDI. ;)
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..or tune the cvt to control all that...
..i'm just sayin'...
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..or tune the cvt to control all that...
..i'm just sayin'...
When the CVT is fully geared out, the RPM will rise to the restricted maximum or until the power cant drag the RPM further out. So if he keeps his throttle turned after hitting max gearing in the CVT, his RPM will rise.
For example: during accelleration, my rpm are stable at around 7200 because of worn down 6,2g rollers but it will still hit the restriction at 9000 rpm, when the CVT is fully geared. The sound of fuel getting dumped directly into the exhaust is even more obvious with my Leo Vince, as it havent got the silencing zig-zags as the standart has. ;)
I will make a video soon if i remember it, but i fear that the cellphone microphone won't catch the sound properly. :p
This is how i've learned to read a popping sound in the exhaust: "It's not healthy for the engine, but it is a sign that the maximum has been reached and it is time to let go of the throttle, as it won't go any faster."
It can also be read as: "It has got the power to drag it all the way up here, so it problably has the power to drag a higher gearing, and then it will possibly find a decent level gearing in the CVT, at the point that it has the power to drag it up to."
Both these ways will be better for the engine than hitting the restriction or removing it completly :D
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So if he keeps his throttle turned after hitting max gearing in the CVT, his RPM will rise
..true...then more cvt tuning is needed...so that cant happen...
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So if he keeps his throttle turned after hitting max gearing in the CVT, his RPM will rise
..true...then more cvt tuning is needed...so that cant happen...
How would you tune a CVT, so his rpm wouldn't rise after hitting max gearing? :o
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Man all you guys with those big jets you must be burning up a lot of gas.I notice a dif. with just a 85 jet.
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Man all you guys with those big jets you must be burning up a lot of gas.I notice a dif. with just a 85 jet.
Same here, lol. ;D
Back in the days, when i experimented with a cone filter, i was at #84, which had the same power as #86, but if i went any higher, it would stall when i gave throttle. :p
I´m not sure if it was my imagination or if the accelleration really did increase, but i still went over 50 km/l with the cone filter back then. :p
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I finally got my cone filter dialed in today i think, still need to do a plug chop to verify but im sure its almost perfect. After months of trialand error i think the #92 main jet i put in is just right.
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I finally got my cone filter dialed in today i think, still need to do a plug chop to verify but im sure its almost perfect. After months of trialand error i think the #92 main jet i put in is just right.
Glad to hear that. :D Hope for you, that its the right one ;)
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Glad to hear that. :D Hope for you, that its the right one ;)
96 was useable but just too rich, 94 was better but gave a little backfire and hesitation and plug read a little too rich, 88 was too lean so i think the 92 is almost perfect. It runs well on it anyway so ill do a proper chop tomorrow to be sure. Think its easier now i have the Leo fitted rather than the stock exhaust, was a nightmare before but runs better now. Find out for sure tomorrow.
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with all my luck im better off with a briggs and stratten on my scoot.
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How would you tune a CVT, so his rpm wouldn't rise after hitting max gearing?
..trial and error...
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with all my luck im better off with a briggs and stratten on my scoot.
Or pedals :D
Ive had a nightmare getting mine just right, think its been 2-3months on and off ive been swapping jets and changing plugs to get it good. Better that than running lean tho i suppose.
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How would you tune a CVT, so his rpm wouldn't rise after hitting max gearing?
..trial and error...
The only way i could find would be to tune the CVT to get the engine at its max RPM while upgearing or to install an extremely strong contraspring, that steals so much torque from the engine, that either cant hit max gearing or that it havent got any more power to increase the rpm after hitting max gearing. :)
I'll still say that he should either let go of the throttle when he have hit the max gearing or that he should increase the final gearing after the CVT, so that he will have more speed, go longer per liter of fuel and not have enough power to hit max gearing and therefore not enough to hit max rpm, and his CDI wont stop cutting the spark and throwing fuel to the exhaust, as it does now. :D
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That makes perfect sense.
Using a "race contra spring will hold back top rpm while giving great low end.
Using up gears will give a better top end, and reduce take off-mid range.
Like always it comes down to 'Balance"
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That makes perfect sense.
Using a "race contra spring will hold back top rpm while giving great low end.
Using up gears will give a better top end, and reduce take off-mid range.
Like always it comes down to 'Balance"
I'm just saying that to Word, as he here say that tuning the CVT could prevent him from hitting max rpm after his vario is fully geared out, which can only be done by disturbing the balance in the CVT alot, as the CVT tuning has none effect from the point that the vario is in highest gear.
So if he keeps his throttle turned after hitting max gearing in the CVT, his RPM will rise
..true...then more cvt tuning is needed...so that cant happen...
For all the time i've been reading and sometimes posting here, i've looked at Word as one of the wise men of this forum, so it didn't really match when he said that CVT tuning could prevent this. :p
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Slinger, and I had just finished talking about how the CVT controls the engine/rpm's, and I think he got carried away on that one. Using the cvt to tune the power band is what we were really talking about. Max rpm's are a different issue.
The only way to efficiently control rpm's is thru Ign. timing, or a rev limiter. It's too bad no one has figured a way to re program the OEM cdi's.
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Slinger, and I had just finished talking about how the CVT controls the engine/rpm's, and I think he got carried away on that one. Using the cvt to tune the power band is what we were really talking about. Max rpm's are a different issue.
The only way to efficiently control rpm's is thru Ign. timing, or a rev limiter. It's too bad no one has figured a way to re program the OEM cdi's.
Okay, misunderstandings happen. :D
But what i were saying to the OP was that his popping sound might come from unburned fuel getting thrown into the exhaust as he hits the rev limiter. After all, he has mounted a bigger cylinder, so he certainly has the power to do this ;)
The reason why you cant reprogram a CDI is that it either uses ROM (Read Only Memory) or are not digital at all but just uses analog circuts to control the ignition advance and such. If it's analog, it should be possible to change a component (problably just a resistance or a couple of them) to make the ignition curve either steeper or flatter, but it is not really deeply possible to tune the ignition, this way.
If the CDI is digital (which i guess, depending on this (http://scootergrisen.dk/scooterhjemmeside/billeder/billed1577.jpg)), it will be using ROM, which is like if you carve something in stone. I guess that you could be able to reprogram it the same way it was first programmed, but i dont know how this is done, only that the components in the CDI doenst have a "writer" so you can over- or rewrite information without opening the chip and having special machienery. ;D
I guess one of the reasons why they use either analog or ROM in CDIs are that these technologies are much less liely to get tempered with and besides that, will endure hot/cold weather, much use and many years better than the use of a harddrive and RAM (Random Access Memory) would do. :)
(Trust me, im an engineer)
Btw, OP, you never said if you are using a cut standart CDI, or if you have fitted a CDI compleately without RPM limitation. :)
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Very nice! I am guessing you are correct about the unburnt fuel. It MAY be from a rev limiter missing the "beat". It is subjective by ear. I find Sharp/High pitched POPPING to be lean, and a Low pitched pop to be flooding. The sharper the sound the more likely it is to be lean. Like a fire cracker. If it sounds like hitting a pillow it is more likely flooding/mis fires.
Nice posts Baddi! You know your stuff for sure!!!
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Very nice! I am guessing you are correct about the unburnt fuel. It MAY be from a rev limiter missing the "beat". It is subjective by ear. I find Sharp/High pitched POPPING to be lean, and a Low pitched pop to be flooding. The sharper the sound the more likely it is to be lean. Like a fire cracker. If it sounds like hitting a pillow it is more likely flooding/mis fires.
Nice posts Baddi! You know your stuff for sure!!!
Well thank you very much, i'm working hard to learn more too. :D
It's the first time in quite a while i've heard this, so Damn, that last comment just made me happier than hash! ;)
I can't really explain how i can hear the diffrence on the sounds, but hitting the rev limiter sounds to me like flooding big time, so perhaps this is what he is experiencing. We wont know until he writes back about the CDI and if the popping is when he is at high speed or what. :p
By the way, Zombie, arent you a mechanic or something? :)
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Marine engines by trade... I do them all. Outboards to inboard diesel. Plus I have had dirt bikes/street bikes/scooters/go carts/street rods/race boats/ect for 40 of my 53 years. I've made almost every mistake that can be made. So now I spend my free time trying to help others avoid all the hassle. I still blow alot of my own stuff up too. One more hp... I KNOW I can get One more hp!
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Marine engines by trade... I do them all. Outboards to inboard diesel. Plus I have had dirt bikes/street bikes/scooters/go carts/street rods/race boats/ect for 40 of my 53 years. I've made almost every mistake that can be made. So now I spend my free time trying to help others avoid all the hassle. I still blow alot of my own stuff up too. One more hp... I KNOW I can get One more hp!
Sounds like you have hell of alot experience ;D
But do you turbocharge and NO2 inject the engines without adding more fuel since they can blow up, or what do you do to them? :O
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The only turbo engines I mess with anymore are diesel. I never liked the idea of gas/turbos... You waste a TON of fuel that could be better used thru porting. Blowers on the other hand are are whole nuther deal. I Like blowers... Nos is cool/fun. I never tried a dry system. I have done a sh** load of wet systems on bikes/cars/boats. Believe it or not you can get similar results with water injection... water makes aLOT of compression. With all of the methods to increase HP/Torque you Have to dump in sh** loads of fuel. Keeping the air cool, and the fuel hot are really the keys. Highest compression wins.
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The only turbo engines I mess with anymore are diesel. I never liked the idea of gas/turbos... You waste a TON of fuel that could be better used thru porting. Blowers on the other hand are are whole nuther deal. I Like blowers... Nos is cool/fun. I never tried a dry system. I have done a sh** load of wet systems on bikes/cars/boats. Believe it or not you can get similar results with water injection... water makes aLOT of compression. With all of the methods to increase HP/Torque you Have to dump in sh** loads of fuel. Keeping the air cool, and the fuel hot are really the keys. Highest compression wins.
Wait what? Turbos not being effÃcient?
Are we talking 2- or 4-strokes, because at 4-strokes, this seems like something i should know before i start saving money for the turbo :D
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Not inefficient but cumbersome. I don't like the idea of all the need parts to control it. Or the amount of heat it charges the air with. Your oil takes a beating as well.
Turbos make some power for sure... I've just never been a fan (pun for sure) :P
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Not inefficient but cumbersome. I don't like the idea of all the need parts to control it. Or the amount of heat it charges the air with. Your oil takes a beating as well.
Turbos make some power for sure... I've just never been a fan (pun for sure) :P
May be that it is 7:39 in the morning and i still havent slept, but that just blew me away! ;D
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Not inefficient but cumbersome. I don't like the idea of all the need parts to control it. Or the amount of heat it charges the air with. Your oil takes a beating as well.
Turbos make some power for sure... I've just never been a fan (pun for sure) :P
turbos are just more complex. not a real bolt-on I suppose. not a project for a newbie. you have to understand everything from oil coking to variable geometries...
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turbos are just more complex. not a real bolt-on I suppose. not a project for a newbie. you have to understand everything from oil coking to variable geometries...
Well, the turbo i've seen are controlled by the air pressure in the exhaust to control the speed of the compressor, so if the speed becomes too high, the air will be bypassed. I dont really know about oil cocking or variable geometries, but i'm sure that i will learn it before it becomes relevant. ;)
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Well, the turbo i've seen are controlled by the air pressure in the exhaust to control the speed of the compressor, so if the speed becomes too high, the air will be bypassed. I dont really know about oil cocking or variable geometries, but i'm sure that i will learn it before it becomes relevant. ;)
It's not a compressor. a super charger has a compressor. Turbos have turbines. Air being by-passed go thru the blow-off valve, a pressure release system.... but these are just the basics and tip of the ice berg... Another problem of turbos is turbo lag. Some won't be effective until achieving a higher rpm. Turbo size, impeller material, design, roller bearing turbo, ball bearing turbo, compression ratio, etc. are things to consider. In short, the turbo system must be a perfect MATCH with your engine, otherwise..... Good luck on your projects baddi.... for me, I'd prefer factory turboed cars rather than after market. For tuning, I'll go with supercharging, blueprinting, big bore, big valves, carbs, pipes, or ENGINE SWAP! Hot Roddin' baaaby!!!
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It's not a compressor. a super charger has a compressor. Turbos have turbines. Air being by-passed go thru the blow-off valve, a pressure release system.... but these are just the basics and tip of the ice berg... Another problem of turbos is turbo lag. Some won't be effective until achieving a higher rpm. Turbo size, impeller material, design, roller bearing turbo, ball bearing turbo, compression ratio, etc. are things to consider. In short, the turbo system must be a perfect MATCH with your engine, otherwise..... Good luck on your projects baddi.... for me, I'd prefer factory turboed cars rather than after market. For tuning, I'll go with supercharging, blueprinting, big bore, big valves, carbs, pipes, or ENGINE SWAP! Hot Roddin' baaaby!!!
A turbine is one which creates movement into circulair force, so the fan on the exhaust side is called a turbine, and is then connected by a rod to the fan on the intake side, which is called a compressor. :p
And yeah i know. So to reduce turbo lag and make it efficient at the right rpm, this is the worlds smallest mass-produced turbo, and the moving parts are smaller to reduce inertia, which are the cause of turbo lag. ;)
But besides from engine swap and the big bore (which i'm very much against) i plan to do almost all of what you said for tuning. Fuel injection with 24 mm throttle body, Leo Vince exhaust, soon 4 valved cylinder head and the last thing i will do, if nothing gets in the way will be the turbocharger and other gearing and then i will register the Agility as a MC, so i can drive legally like this! :D
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Right on baddi. You need a very small turbo tho, and I don't know what amount of boost a small single cylinder can produce. Remember, you need a turbo which flows the same amount of air from the engine, otherwise, you'll loose power. One alternative tho is a carbon dioxide turbo wherein a co2 gas tank provides for the pressure to spin the turbo, or and electric turbo perhaps. ;)
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Right on baddi. You need a very small turbo tho, and I don't know what amount of boost a small single cylinder can produce. Remember, you need a turbo which flows the same amount of air from the engine, otherwise, you'll loose power. One alternative tho is a carbon dioxide turbo wherein a co2 gas tank provides for the pressure to spin the turbo, or and electric turbo perhaps. ;)
The co2 turbo would ruin my line of thought, as my thoughts are to optimise the engine and the co2 would be another source of energy (and pollution), and it would have to be refilled once in a while. :p
This is pt the strongest 50cc engine. :D
(http://www.tunsty.net/forum/uploads/1235916391/med_gallery_4653_10_1500.jpg)
But i've seen a couple of other turbocharged scooters with engines from 50-80cc (big bore), and some of them had just taken a turbo from a car and mounted. How they run, i dunno, but a turbo like the RHB31 VZ21 (http://www.ecotrons.com/Small_Engine_RHB31_VZ21_turbocharger.html) should run better on a small engine than a car turbo. :)
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Nice baddi nice. ;) But for me, I'll rather turbo a car than a 50cc scooter. Would be a nice project tho.
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Rich from HGT did an SR factory with a turbo. I believe the unit that sparked the idea was a Zenith turbo made for a renault. It is a TINY unit, and puts out 7psi@5k rpm. I'm not SURE about the numbers but I believe he is near 100g's into the bike.
http://www.highgaintuning.com/aboutus.asp (http://www.highgaintuning.com/aboutus.asp)
I've messed with simple turbo set ups on carts, and one for a 400 Suzuki street bike. The Suzuki was a total failure. But in fairness it was ALL junk yard parts. Even the bike. It was a slow winter project. I'd rather Injection, and some good old fashioned porting.
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The engine in that Pict is over 40 years old! I forget the guy, and what block it was but I believe it was near 44hp.
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I'd rather Injection, and some good old fashioned porting.
And supercharging... ;D
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Mvhjidbvdzc/RoULaQwBXtI/AAAAAAAABGI/dtsWWnrrScU/s400/p%2B1.jpg)
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Another 100G custom project. I think there is a youtube on that engine blowing it's clutch. No one makes one strong enough for it.
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Modifying an engine will really put holes in your pockets. ;D
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After someone here mentioned electric superchargers, i have looked a little into it, and it seems like there are two reasons that they are not in use (BMW are working on implementing one on a car) :
- Cars, which use alot of air will have to have a supercharger that can deliver that air + the air for the pressure, and because of this, it will need a powerful electric motor to provide the power for it, and the electrical power has until now been a dealbreaker.
- Scooters and small engines often implement the technologies from the automobile industry when it becomes affordable, but unfortunately the sold electric superchargers looks like this (http://viewitem.eim.ebay.dk/ELECTRIC-TURBO-SUPERCHARGER-KIT-49CC-50CC-SCOOTER-MOPED-PIT-DIRT-MINI-MOTO-BIKE/330718712369/item) (plastic components, a weak motor and bad design) when they should be more like this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbocharger) but just with an electric motor instead of the turbine. :p
As if the cheap design and effect of the "electronic superchargers" wasn't enough, they are usually just provided with an on/off swich so they cannot adjust their speed according to the engine.
Because of this, i have given myself a challange: I will make a prove of concept of an electric supercharger for a 50cc engine, so that Ecotrons might incorporate this in their EFI kit and making the ECU control the turbo. If this is possible, the turbo would be fully tunable and controlable where you would be able to set a wanted pressure at a given rpm/throttle and the ECU would control it to that pressure with the sensors which includes temp sensors and manifold air pressure sensor.
I do not know about the ECU and the ecotrons stuff, but i hope that he will solve the controlling device situation, if i can make an electrical charger, which can charge a small engine with only the electricity that is onboard. :)
To assist me, i have my brother, who studies physics so with our power combined, only money is in our way. Or the lack of it. ;D
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I will make a prove of concept of an electric supercharger for a 50cc engine,
Try a small weed blower or hair dryer.... ;D
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I love the whole idea... Efficiency is the key. Controlling the pressure via an electronic interface is a great solution to alot of the issues. Model airplane guys have been modifying hard drive motors for use in planes. They get up to 3/4hp out of these tiny motors by rewinding the armatures. More fuel for your fire...
http://waterpumps.tpub.com/TM-5-4320-274-14-P/TM-5-4320-274-14-P0034.htm (http://waterpumps.tpub.com/TM-5-4320-274-14-P/TM-5-4320-274-14-P0034.htm)
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=220329 (http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=220329)
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I will make a prove of concept of an electric supercharger for a 50cc engine,
..i gotts a home-made blown air induction mod that requires a 106 main jet, and modding the needle by 1mm in height...
..made my 08 a50 scream!! ;)
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I will make a prove of concept of an electric supercharger for a 50cc engine,
Try a small weed blower or hair dryer.... ;D
They wont work to build up pressure because of a design which is not made to build up pressure, as the pressure would go between the fan blades. In a turbo, the air is circulated around in the turbo and whenever air is used, new air will get into the intake manifold until the pressure is again on the desired level. Then it will again circulate around inside the compressor housing, keeping the compressed air in the intake manifold. This circulating air inside the compressor housing have great energy, as speed affects force in ^2 which means that double the speed will give 4 times as much power or inertia.
If i used a hair dryer, no air would be moving when it reached the point where the fan could not build up enough pressure, and the fan will stall because the compressed air is pressing directly against the fan instead of pressing at fast moving air. The space between the fan blades will then allow air to get back, opposed to a turbo, where the fast moving air acts as one continuous fan blade, not having any holes.
The hair dryer design could do the same as a turbo, but would require a stronger motor to withstand the pressure directly on the blades, while the supercharger/turbo design haven't got as much resistance, so it wouldn't need as strong a motor but just a motor with high rpm (or the right ratio between power and gearing), as the conventional design will only need enough power to accellerate the fan and the air to the desired speed. :)
The challange is to find a way to calculate the right compressor speed and the required power before using money on motors, so you can make sure that the electricity onboard the scooter is enough to drive it. ;)
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..my cooling fan driven induction worked...
..just needed to design a more accessible intake filtration device...
..kept clogging up and making the fuel mix rich after a cpl of days...
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..my cooling fan driven induction worked...
..just needed to design a more accessible intake filtration device...
..kept clogging up and making the fuel mix rich after a cpl of days...
Well, as i haven't seen it, i cant say that you are wrong. But how much did it work and did it give 50cc the power of 70-80cc, as a turbocharger would give?
It's all about what you mean by worked, but it doens't change that the engineers who made forced induction have tested many designs and found the currently used most power effective. :D
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..looks like this...
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..annnd this...
..cant compare to any other non-standard induction, but just can...say...it was the most powerful experiment i ever did...
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Now im starting to get bad ideas.............
Must stay away from this thread........
Must resist................
Growing weak..............
No.....man must go fast.........
:P
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..search "induction"....then navigate to the first post of the "blown air induction 1.0" thread...lol..
..i was having a friking blast back then!!!
;D