KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 50cc => Super 9 => Topic started by: Super9r on December 09, 2012, 05:25:41 AM
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Gotta love 2 strokes my wife doesn't get it at all.
I picked it up for $700 with 3100kms. It has been dropped the body panel is scrapped and the front fairing (moulding) is scuffed. Also needs a starter. The starter cost pisses me off though.
It is all stock for now and tops out with my 200lb butt at 43mph gps'd on my phone. Might be off but it certainly isn't the 50 mph indicated.
Been trolling on here a week or so waiting admin approval for my account.
I found a #92 jet in the bag under the seat. Might try ot the throttle has a bit of no gain at the top might be too small of a main jet in there even for the stock air box and exhaust.
What do ya'll think?
Arthur
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One of the sweetest scooters around (I'm biased.) 2 stroke fun....great handling. Love my Super 9! Enjoy.
Wil B.
Broadview, IL
'71 Guzzi Ambassador
'91 Nighthawk
'04 Kymco Super 9
'10 Kymco Yager 200gt
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Here she is.
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...dang...i want a red one.....
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It is scuffed p in the body panel on left side I colored it with black red and silver sharpie for now lol. Can't tell too much when it is moving and it doesn't draw your eyes to it even parked. It will do for now. Need time to put the "unrestricted" #92 jet in may tomorrow or thursday.
Today them hoe front he top of the head to the carb blew. Was dripping at the mexican restaurant and made it home. Broke in two when I pulled the met box and just grabbed it lightly. Dodged a bullet there. Need to do a flush anyway. Probably the same time as the jetting.
Past weekend I flushed and replaced the gear oil and bleed the front brakes.
Bike is in nice running shape but needs a starter (anyone have a used one for sale?) and a fuel unit assy.
Two kicks and I am off even cold it may take three.
Pretty bone stock with the cdi green wire unplugged. Haven't checked the boss as it wasn't under the seat with the jet. The Naraku vari will take care if that anyway.
So is anyone has a fuel unit or a starter for sale let me know.
Arthur
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anyone has a fuel unit
..??
..please elaborate??
..i might have one...
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...oh, btw...concrats on your awesome purchase, and welcome to th' forum!!
;D
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Word,
It is the sensor in the tank. The float and resistive unit.
Thanks
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...aight...i have one from a 2004 ppl...need to check for compatability...
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Welcome! ;D
Damn! You got a hell of a deal :o
You sure the starter is bad? A lot of times the relay goes out. A universal relay will work too.
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Yes it is the starter relay checked out so I pulled the starter. It was seized I opened it up and one brushes was cracked in two and everything else shows signs of heat damage. Probably trying to crank it too long after it sat in the original owners garage. I bought it that way. I did reassemble it and it kinda sorta works sometimes...lol. It will engage and turn but slowly most of the time then once in a while it will kick it over.
It has done it's time.
I did 26 years in the Navy as an Electronics Technician "ET" the joke there is everything tech. Whenever someone can't fix anything and I mean a anything they call us. I've worked on a lot of strange stuff that had nothing to do with electronics. Learned to work on anything mostly by just looking at what it should be doing.
The CVT tuning thing seems a little confusing. As I read one person will say go heavier while another says go lighter....lol. Funny because it seems it can go either way. Maybe the person asking isn't giving all the info but it seems like majoc sometimes.
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I gotcha. Just say I KNOW WHAT I'M DOIN DAMN IT! ;) :D
As far as CVT tuning goes, best thing to do is just jump in there and play around with it. Everybody's riding style, rider weight, and roads is different.
Just remember
Lighter rollers = Higher RPMS
Heavier rollers = Lower RPMS
Best place to start is with a medium torque spring. Do that first then find the roller weight you like best. Only you can find the best weight for you. People can guide you in the right direction but in the end it's what you like.
Find your ideal RPM speed or range as it will fluctuate a little. Use different roller weights to optimize CVT gearing. Sometimes you'll gain a little top speed but sacrifice hill climbing power or vise versa.
Things start getting more complicated when you start adding more aftermarket parts. Aftermarket intake, exhaust, or engine parts will change your whole power curve. It's a constant balancing act.
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..well put pete!
8)
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Removed and cleaned the carb today. Tried the 92 main too rich. Has an 82 in it now. Carb showed signs of sitting a lot. Reinstalled everything and the idle mix isn't able to go any further than when i started about a quarter turn out, vice the manuals stated 1 1/4 +-1/2. Didn't see any markings on the idle jet but the adjustment screw is a flat top not fully pointed adj screw. Is that a normal slow jet adj screw?
Runs well like before. Well a hair less free throttle at the top with no increase in power or rpm.
Need the Naraku in box filter and see if it flows any better.
The 92 wasn't big enough though to run an open air filter so I guess I'll have to wait and see how the Naraku in box filter flows. I guess I could order a 85, 90, 95 and a 100 main jet and a open air filter.
Anyone have the jet part number to use at jets r us?
I do like the quieting of the stock air box and may try to open that up and balance the flow to at least the 92 I have now.
I am wondering if the enrichment circuit is leaking by i.e working but not fully closing the needle hmmmm.
Stopped playing after reassembly plus put in a new plug will read it tomorrow night. Same jetting so should be good. The old plug was a light coffee with cream color. Have rain here today and the roads are bounds to be like snot!
Thanks for any info.
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Beside the awesome carb work I am sorta copying a Nina mod.
Wordslinger has the cvt thing down obviously! That and jetting with an added touch of carb mod.
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..dude..you doing just fine...obviously got some skills..
..gotta have a good mix to even have a chance...
..these oem S9s perform quite well without much mods...
..derestrict EVERYTHING, throw in some 7.5 gram dr pulley sliders in the oem variator....
..see what happens!!! ;D
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...i had some pretty good performance out of nina when she was oem...
..there's a link somewhere in here to the s9 jets...i posted it...
..just..dont remember...where....
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I read somewhere that the sliders tend to act heavier or lighter but I couldn't find it again so I ordered rollers for now.
I don't think there is a shop that actually has stock of jets or rolers or slides. I am really don't think there is a performance shop at all around here. I could be wrong I am new to Phoenix.
Word, you seem tomhit up the intake first I would normally go at the exhaust first in a two stroke to really get it " on the pipe". When I do then the whole cvt re adjust thing will be again in my future as it is now.....lol.
My plan was to put in the 1500 spring and Naraku vari with 8g rolllers then see where to go with the rollers. You think I should do tje clutch springs later?
I am pretty happy with the scoot stock with basic derestriction but....... I can't help myself when I am near two strokes I always seem to want just that little more.
I race goped goquads the spindle quads. Probably getting the same horse power in the 29.5cc cart with a tuned pipe as I am with the scoot.
Any good porters on the forum? i can't seem to find a sport 50cc lc kit. Seems though that the cvt may not like too much power in a grocery getting a sprinter yes but around town I think I'm happy with a few more ponys.
This carb definately seems a bit funky but with the rain and drastic drop in temp it's hard to tell what os going on. Still gets to 50 indicated though.
These are great scooters!
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..areomyst is th resident super 9 engine mod guru...
..he also runs th show,
...i bet that if you PM him with porting questions, he would hit you back pretty soon...
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..ive pretty much sold myself on Dr Pulley sliders in a malossi variator....
..it works well for nina...
..i've used several different clutches, and the HiT is the bomb...
..right now, im running a malossi delta, which is also pretty friking awesome...
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I can't help myself when I am near two strokes I always seem to want just that little more
...yup, i feel that!!...
..K&N filter, 117 main jet..37 pilot...still need that needle mod with oem carb, and a tecnigas next pipe issa little more...
..also goes a long way...
;)
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...with the 1500 contra...
..oem likes the 1500 as well...
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..am i rambling again??.....
,..tend to....
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Are these the jets?
main:
http://www.jetsrus.com/a_jets_by_carburetor_type/jets_keihin_99101-116_main_round_small_and_38-xxx.htm (http://www.jetsrus.com/a_jets_by_carburetor_type/jets_keihin_99101-116_main_round_small_and_38-xxx.htm)
Slow:
http://www.jetsrus.com/a_jets_by_carburetor_type/jets_keihin_N424-74C_slow_27-xxx.htm (http://www.jetsrus.com/a_jets_by_carburetor_type/jets_keihin_N424-74C_slow_27-xxx.htm)
I measured my extra main so I am pretty sure on that the slow number is from a goggle search not verified first hand.
I'd like to have them on hand for future tuning it's a pretty low cost insurance.
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..agility and super9 have waay different threaded, and design of jets....
...however, that looks like the right link to main....
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I saw you liked the naraku ok somi made a price conscience purchase there.lol
Later i'll drop the bejamins on top shelf sh**e.
I want the next r in chrome but don't want to pay shipping. I could only find racing planet offering that and they are out of the chrome.
Then I though the rs will run a 50cc and a70cc well if I ho that route in the future...but I like the idea of getting whatmI want outta a fitty.
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I thought the cvk would but it didn't seem so? The main is the same dimensions and the slow looks right. Damn I don't want to pull that carb again for being stupid and not measuring the slow jet....lol
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I THINKZOMBIE WAS RIGHT THE A50 uses this slow http://www.motorcyclecarbs.com/Keihin_Pilot_Jet_N424-25_C84.cfm (http://www.motorcyclecarbs.com/Keihin_Pilot_Jet_N424-25_C84.cfm)
The one above is a 2t carb slow
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..the link to the correct slow jet only offered a cpl or 4 sizes...i got the wrong ones my first try is how i remember...
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Hey look you could have saved some finger skin...lol
http://www.jetsrus.com/individual_parts/009_396_su.html (http://www.jetsrus.com/individual_parts/009_396_su.html)
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..ive done some crazy finger skin filing sh** beforre, no doubt!!!
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...yeah, but what they dont tell you is that when you put that shim beneath the head of your oem carb's needle, the nylon retaining clip will no longer turn into it's locking position...
...sssso......
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This was your link to main jet
http://www.provoscooter.com/scooters/keihin-round-main-jet-99101-393.html (http://www.provoscooter.com/scooters/keihin-round-main-jet-99101-393.html)
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..never bought anything from there...
..only ever bought jets from jetsrus...
..that link is to a gy6 jet...for a 4t, cvk carb...
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Mine was shorter and the head fatter then that link.
5mm head 7mm long same as my link.
Could I have two of the wrong jets? That would be weird.
Looks like I am tearing into it on Saturday
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Keihin spread sheet list the same main jet I first posted but doesn't list the slow jet...jerks!
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..we have the pb16 carb...
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The list shows the pb main but not pb slow jet.
I am betting now on lol.
http://www.jetsrus.com/a_jets_by_carburetor_type/jets_keihin_N424-74C_slow_27-xxx.htm (http://www.jetsrus.com/a_jets_by_carburetor_type/jets_keihin_N424-74C_slow_27-xxx.htm)
http://www.bikersfinder.com/index.php?case=product&proddb=18&pid=4522 (http://www.bikersfinder.com/index.php?case=product&proddb=18&pid=4522)
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So
Main
http://www.jetsrus.com/a_jets_by_carburetor_type/jets_keihin_99101-116_main_round_small_and_38-xxx.htm (http://www.jetsrus.com/a_jets_by_carburetor_type/jets_keihin_99101-116_main_round_small_and_38-xxx.htm)
Slow
http://www.jetsrus.com/a_jets_by_carburetor_type/jets_keihin_N424-74C_slow_27-xxx.htm (http://www.jetsrus.com/a_jets_by_carburetor_type/jets_keihin_N424-74C_slow_27-xxx.htm)
Thanks wordslinger. I was just searching Pb and pb093. When I used pb16 tada!
Modified first jet links as to not confuse others.
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Good news is that it is colder than normal here. Went out and scooter starts one kick.
I'll call it a win today.
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...i just love it when the sh** works out!!!
;D
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Tecnigas Next R oredered. Maybe in time to put it under the tree.
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Weird though no charge on the card and no order on website. I wonder what is the deal. It was at Mhr.
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..never ordered from them, but from what i've heard, they take long time...
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Well they couldn't find my order. Just as well got an unexpected raise in the son's college bill. Think I'll put an RSII on it if I can' find a higher reving pipe.
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Good news is the cvt parts should be here Friday. I already received the jets. Have a 38 pilot and all mains to 100.
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...100 is not large enough with pipe and filter...
...might be close with just a pipe...
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That's as large as jets r us had.
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..i bought up to a 120 at jets-r-us...hmmmm....
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Yeah you are right. 120 is the largest in the Genuine jets. I was also wrong since I got up to 108 in the "oem" cheapo $2.99 ones.
I didn't want to invest too much in this carb because I may upgrade to at least the 17.5 bolt on Dellotro. No money here before xmas especially. Lol
Byw the post office is working overtime my order of cvt parts came to the door tonight after 6pm. Thanks usps!
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..priority mail...thats some good mail....
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Now I am in a pickle. This is my primary transportation when the wife is working and she goes back tomorrow.
Guess I'll put the cvt parts in tomorrow and hope I don't screw it up or need something halfway through.
I am installing the Naraku vari with a choice of 6.5, 7.5, 8.0, and stock 8.5 rollers, a 1500 torque spring and have clutch spring set with the three different sizes.
If Install the mid clutch spring and 1500 what weight rollers should I try first? The motor is stock with only the Naraku two element filters in the stock airbox.
Any input is welcome.
Thanks.
Arthur
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On another note ...
I have a impact wrench from HF a 14mm 17mm sockets. I also have a channel lock type oil filter wrench to hold the vari and driven pulleyset.
My boggle is the manual says the clutch has a 28mm nut while I've read elsewhere (yahoo super 9 group) it is a 39mm nut. Anyone know for sure? Like I said before once it is apart I can't get to the store for a new tool well at least not until my wife brings the car home at 10 or 11pm.
Thanks again.
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Word,
Which is louder our next pipe or the open filter? I was amazed at how loud the intake is on this little 50cc with no airbox attached.
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My Yager is a 39mm. I beleive all the GY6's are, the only difference is the
diameter of the clutch bell...
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..definately the open air filter is louder...
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Well it turns out I screwed up my order and ordered the wrong size rollers. So have to wait for more to come in as I only have 8 and 8.5 rollers and they are unlikely to work with the upgrade torque spring and clutch springs installed.
Darn I hate when I do stupid sh**e.
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...dammit man!!!
...btw, dont run that engine hard without the airbox onnit...you'll burn your piston..
..i had to order a 38mm 1/2" drive impact socket, and dremel it out to 39mm...coukdn't find a 39mm socket...
:-\
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I have a 39 and a 28 mm now but now getting the right size rollers. Ordered them tody with he Naraku drive face, high output regulator and performance coil.
I ordered the replacement fuel senor amd starter over the weekend.
I only tested the 92 jet with the filter off for a minute or so.. It was still acting rich with no filter and stock pipe. Also with it off the pilot jet still was only 1/2 turn out. 35 pilot.
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Got 6, 6.5, 7 and 7.5 rollers. 8s came with the vari and have the 8.5 stockers. Should find one combo to work if it is 6 grams or greater rollers are good with the new Naraku vari,Naraku drive plate, 1500 torque spring and 1500 clutch springs.
Any thoughts? Should I replace the coil and regulator or wait until the cvt is upgraded?
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...updates??!!
:o
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???????? updates
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Received the last of the cvt parts. I installed the A50 unrestricted driven pulley set with 1500 contra and 1500 Naraku clutch springs. Installed Naraku variator and outer (red) Naraku pulley half with 6.5g rollers. Way too much rpm and no top end 10-15 mph below stock. Took it apart and tried the 8g still not as good top end as stock. Take off seems like it might be improved slightly over stock but lost a few mph. Getting dark. Will pull it back apart on sunday and mark up the pulleys to see what's up.
I think it needs more weight but already have 8g in it.
Is the torque driver different on the A50 I dont feel the mid speed shift?
It is stock still with the exception of upgrade coil and regulator.
Still stock belt it is in great shape only a couple thousand miles on it.
Any suggestions?
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P.s.
The reason it took so long is because I figured I'd wait for the A50 pulley set and the correct impact sockets.
The rpms jump to about 7100 or so at launch and max out at around 8200. Clutch engages around 4500-5000 rpms.
Like I said dont feel that norma mid rpm shift of the curved torque converter. Forgot both times it was apart to,sharpie the pulleys daahhh.
Will try again Sunday maybe I can video it.
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Reading back through Rage's dilemma and this is very similar. If I can find time on Sunday I'll put the stock rollers in and mark the pulleys. A couple of flat spots on the stock 8.5s though.
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Still stock belt it is in great shape only a couple thousand miles on it.
Any suggestions?
...a Gates 732-18.5-28 belt...
;)
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Still stock belt it is in great shape only a couple thousand miles on it.
Any suggestions?
...a Gates 732-18.5-28 belt...
;)
On order mine is out of specs at 16.8mm just checked before logging on.
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And the rear
These are with everything installed as before but with stock rollers....well and a worn out belt. Top speed was 50 indicated as before at 8100 rpms.
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Just a note the A50 pulley set LC10 is smooth all the way to the boss. I got mine from Chaparral Motorsports online.
Anyone know the cheapest place to get Gates belts from? I ordered from Amazon but looks like a frequent replacement item so looking for the best deal in the future. i ordered Gates PL20601. Is that right?
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yeah if anyone knows of a gates belt put a link up...ill give that a try instead of my malossi belt
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Did you try;
http://www.scooterbelt.com/ (http://www.scooterbelt.com/)
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Great price but nothing at 732x18.5x28. They have he stock belt size though and shipped for under $20!
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http://partsforscooters.com/106-68-Gates-Powerlink-Belt (http://partsforscooters.com/106-68-Gates-Powerlink-Belt)
http://partsforscooters.com/106-85_Gates_Premium_Belt?sc=31&category=132537 (http://partsforscooters.com/106-85_Gates_Premium_Belt?sc=31&category=132537)
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Thanks for al the options.
I ordered this one the PL20601 732x18.5x28 standard Gates says it won't be here until March 4th fulfillment by Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000KKFEUG/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER. (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000KKFEUG/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER.) $2.30 tax (Az) and $5.58 shipping, total $28.40
Hopefully the Premium PL30601 732x18.5x28 from this vendor will be faster. If not I'l have one of them soon and can compare over time and report how they fair on my setup.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002R8BT0S/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ADG953YR6NRBF (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002R8BT0S/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ADG953YR6NRBF). $0 tax, shipping, $3.95, total $27.44
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The funny thing is I paid more for the standard thinking Amazon would ship faster. They have always in the past. The second one was from Midway Auto but they also have both belts on Amazon. $18.34 + $3.95 shipping.
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...partsforscooters.com generally ship same day...
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Well looks like the Premium will ship Friday. If I get a few bucks and I like the Gates I'll ordered a few to have on hand.
I'd still like to buy an extra cylinder and get it ported by Josh one of these days.
My Radio Controlled Model habit os eating away at a lot of fun bucks!
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Despite the current belt being worn out below the 17mm (16.8 at the thickest) width after this short break in on the current set up of four or five decent rides, I am routinely hitting over 50mph indicated. Cant wait for a proper belt to try. Thanks for all the tips.
P.s. Belt still hasn't shipped darn it!
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Got the belt today and installed it into the same set up. Was much smoother through the shift change I get an early driven pulley shift with no belt slip like the old belt and was hitting 50+ at 7200 rpms with the gates Premium 732x18.5x28. Think I need to replace the flattened stock rollers with 8g rollers as the rpms on throttle reapply seems a bit low.
Not sure though would lighter rollers help with reaccelerating? Will .5 less help to get the 7500+ rpm range with the 732 belt? I hope to find out through some trial and error.
Wish I had the extra cash for the Next R right now. I think the current setup would rock with a Next R pipe installed as when it is at the top speed now it is just 300 rpms below the Next R power range. What do you think? Should peg the needle in all situations as it needs just a bit more to over come wind drag and inclines...maybe 1/2 a HP would do it. In a tuck I can get the needle to the far side of the odometer as it is or while drafting with ease.
Have yet to install the Naraku Air box replacement filter. Has anyone got experience using the in airbox free flow filter?
Super9r
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Anyone have a roller size suggestion for a stock motor with a next-r pipe?
You go lighter for a pipe?
Currently running stock rollers and run at 7000-7200 rpms tops out at 55 indicated no wind or hills.
Gets kinda stuck below 7000 if wind and hills are a factor.
Cvt:
Naraku vari
Agility driven pulley set and clutch
1500 clutch springs
1500 contra
Gates premium belt
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Waiting on the Next-r from Racing Planet got the 10% off email and couldn't resist.
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Well the next-r went on nicely but tire up the gates premium belt and was driving me crazy try to figure out what was going wrong. Plug didn't show any signs of needing rejecting but did richen the pilot up a little. When I get the new belt in I'll dial it in a bit more. Maybe try richer main by 5% to an 87 from a 82.
During the trouble shooting I put the stock vari back in with 7g and with the old worn out bando will run up quickly to 9500 rims but can't get past 50 indicated. When I first installed the pipe and had the gates 732 in the bike was topping out at 60 indicated at 8500-9000 with 6.5g rollers in. Bog on launch...
Was really weird because it would bog from a stop so I changed the clutch from 1500 to 2000 springs and that's when the belt went bad apparently and had me chasing my tail all day swapping to find the cause. It came on so suddenly I though I had screwed the top end up from being too lean thought he plug was brown. Pucker me a bit on the ride home from Costco.
The Gates only had about 2000 km on it and it varied in thickness from 14.2 to 17mm weird. Made me think the clutch spring were installed half assed but it was the belt when I finally verified it with the worn bando belt.
Anyone wear a gates out that fast? The stock one had over 3500km and it wore even? Could it be my setup. Naraku vari and drive face agility 50 rear pulley set 1500 contra and then 1500 clutch springs on a stock motor carb and pipe. Normal running 7200rpms.
Anyway the 2000rpm red springs got rid of the bog but I am wondering what the effect of adding a 2000 rpm contra would be? Anyone?