KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => Grandvista 250 => Topic started by: jimmymcmullen on July 11, 2013, 04:01:09 PM
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I have a 2009 gv that I bought as a left over last august. it now has around 3k miles on it. when I am in traffic or idling for a while it starts to get hot. it will cool when I start moving and air flows through. is this scooter supposed to have a fan to prevent this?
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Yes, it has a cooling fan and should come on when you have 3-4 bars on the temperature indicator, than cool down to 3 bars. I check connections, fan thermostat and fan. If still under warranty, hand key to dealer... ;)
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it is still under war. where is the fan located? on radiator?
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I have a 2009 gv that I bought as a left over last august. it now has around 3k miles on it. when I am in traffic or idling for a while it starts to get hot. it will cool when I start moving and air flows through. is this scooter supposed to have a fan to prevent this?
I find the fan to not be very effective on my 2005 GV with 10K miles. When it comes on it tends to stay on until I get moving. I have good cooling and usually run between 2-3 / 5 bars. Other motorcycles and my car in it's prime needed only 30 to 60 seconds to lower the temp and turn off where the GV 250 fan runs a lot and does little. If you turn the motor off with the kill switch while the fan is running it keeps running - what's the point with no fluid able to circulate?
11-13-2013 Minor update: the fan runs more than I thought (still holding 3 bars) but it is so quite and I wear ear plugs that I realized that is why I don't hear it running.
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Maybe it would help an overheating bike cool down before restarting...
Even if the coolant is not circulating, I imagine a substantial amount of coolant is available in the radiator.
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I need to say, i do not recall the fan continuing to run when I switch the ignition off; never noticed that, and I think it doesn't do that. If there is a problem with that you can re-wire the positive to the radiator thermostat fan switch through a positive wire operated by the ignition switch.
To lower the over all temperature make sure that your radiator is clean of any insects and dust/dirt, and if it is an older G/V it may be time for a radiator/cooling system flush.
My 05 GV was also running much hotter than the 09 I have now, basically because it was older coolant and dirtier radiator than the present one. Flushing the system and adding "Waterwetter" with the correct percentage and correct 50/50% water/antifreeze will lower the operating temperature.
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The fan does not run indefinitely when the kill switch is on. It simply runs until the coolant reaches the optimal temperature. If it isn't running when you flip the kill switch, then your engine coolant is at the optimal temperature.
Lots of low speed riding and idling in traffic after the bike is fully warm tends to get the fan to switch on.
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I double checked with a test today, the fan does definitely NOT RUN with the ignition off. If it does, then somebody has messed around with the wiring to the fan thermostat. The power to it should be controlled by the ignition switch.
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The fan will not run with the ignition off. You are correct.
However, mrbios and I are describing a situation where the ignition is on and the kill switch is off. If the engine coolant temperature is high enough, the fan will continue to run until the temperature is reduced or if the ignition is turned off.
I hope that clears things up.
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Thank you for clarifying.
Since I grew up originally in Europe and also got my motorcycle education there, we never shut OFF our motorcycles by using the kill switch, rather always turning the Ignition switch off. I am not sure why Americans tend to do this procedure with the kill switch. It takes two actions of using two switches (that can go wrong over time), usually the light stays on too just with the kill switch off, which puts drain on the battery, and then you need again two actions of switches to start.... And, as we see now, it creates even an unnecessary running of the fan which additionally drains the battery even further due to the lights also being on.
Anybody out there who wants to explain to me any sort of type of advantage why to first use the kill switch, then the ignition switch to shut a bike or scooter down?
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You get to meet the nicest AAA operators, who you call to boost the dead battery that you created
trying to start the engine with the kill switch set to OFF.
Scoot safely,
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We are taught as a habit to be familiar with the kill switch in the event of an accident; it may be simpler and easier to reach and engage depending where the bike ends up. There's no advantage to shutting a bike with the kill switch first, but likely no disadvantage if the battery is fully charged from the ride we just finished.
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Ms. MaryK: great point..!!! LOL!!!
Mr. thesurgeonistherobot: If in emergency I'll find immediately and automatically the IGNITION switch, which shuts ALL down. So the kill switch shuts the engine down, but what about all the electrical that is still HOT and "could" spark a fire?
OK, I JUST remembered WHY the kill switch was introduced! It was back in the old times where throttle cables with carburetors got hung and stayed wide open!!! Yes, people got killed because of that. THAT was the one and ONLY reason why there was an "EMERGENCY ENGINE SHUT OFF SWITCH" (kill switch) right there on the right besides the throttle grip. And yes, this is why also the lights MUST stay on, if that happens during night time, doing this with the ignition switch you would not see anything any longer. But that switch was never intended to shut an engine down under normal operating conditions!
If for any reason I could not reach the ignition switch after an accident, then believe me, I do know where the kill switch is! And it is basically for ANY motorcycle and scooter at the same place... So I honestly I am a firm believer to use the ignition switch ONLY, under normal conditions. The kill switch ONLY for engine run-away situations. And BTW: many times after a severe accident the engine is NOT running any longer, but all the electricals are still on (!), and the gasoline is leaking slowly from the tank, or carburetor, or cut gas line... I hope you have now the vision of flames with the typical following Hollywood explosion [dramatisized, just kidding, but fire can be reality...]. And that's why I know how to find my IGNITION SWITCH as quickly as I can... been there, done that... ;)
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For what it's worth, my friend had crashed his bike at low speed, but the wheel kept the bike spinning in a circle. It might have been easier to reach for the kill switch than the ignition, but I am happy I have that option available to me.
You do bring up some good points. However, the kill switch and ignition switch isn't necessarily one or the other, with the bike left to stay on headlights blazing indefinitely. I prefer to do kill switch first and shut off the ignition afterwards. I have no reason to believe what I am doing or how I have been trained in a different manner is in any way detrimental or inferior, aside from doing things a little differently. I don't see a dramatic movie style explosion should I hit the kill switch before shutting off the ignition. It works for me, and I see you find your technique works for you. I would not try to convince you to do otherwise, nor would I want to. I believe there are other areas of motorcycling or scooting more interesting to passionately debate. Cheers. :)
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Coming back to the beginning of the thread, the original question was "Why does the fan keep on running"...
My answer is: "Using the kill switch is not the best way for normal operating shut down"; it may be a habit forming procedure for individuals "to easier find the kill switch" in emergency situations [maybe, and so is the ignition switch available], but there is not any rational advantage, rather an unnecessary drain on a battery. And that is the point to this thread we are discussing.
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I think you've given a good answer to jimmymcmullen's original question of the beginning of the thread about why his fan never turns on. Unfortunately he also didn't get a reply to his later question about where the fan and the radiator were located.
But maybe that isn't the original question of this thread. Perhaps there is more to the thread that we are discussing.
mrbios made an observation about ineffective fan cooling and asked and why his fan stays on when he turns his kill switch to stop but leaves the ignition on temporarily.
Let us recall it:
I find the fan to not be very effective on my 2005 GV with 10K miles. When it comes on it tends to stay on until I get moving. I have good cooling and usually run between 2-3 / 5 bars. Other motorcycles and my car in it's prime needed only 30 to 60 seconds to lower the temp and turn off where the GV 250 fan runs a lot and does little. If you turn the motor off with the kill switch while the fan is running it keeps running - what's the point with no fluid able to circulate?
You gave a very good suggestion about cleaning out the radiator and using fresh coolant to have optimal engine temperatures with minimal use of the fan.
To his question about kill switch fan operation, your answer is that that feature isn't a feature. The bike is not meant to be shut down with the kill switch and left to idle under ordinary circumstances. Fair enough.
I offer an explanation for the GV's fan kill switch behaviour and suggest that this non-feature could be useful in some limited situations, where the bike may be overheating and the fan left on to help cool the coolant before possibly limping to the next service station for coolant or service. Is that not a rational advantage?
If the battery is fully charged after a nice long ride and the battery has an extra surface charge built up, is there still a considerable unnecessary discharge needed to operate the fan?
Is this off-topic, or still in the spirit of the fan behaviour thread? :)
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Yes, the subject is related to the G/V fan, as mr.bios questioned why the fan keeps on running (my answer in a nutshell: not the best technical shut down procedure). This is why the subject got much more wide, and this is normal and typical in any forum thread.
I think you give especially scooter batteries too much "confidence". They are very small in capacity, and if they are a bit of age you can damage/drain them very quickly. I have learned over the more than 4 decades of riding, that one should ALWAYS fully respect the limited capacity of any battery, and not take the "best situation" for granted, rather the worst. Also, no matter if you think it is fully charged after a ride, it may have perfect Voltage, but Voltage is not the issue, it is Amp-hrs capacity remaining to operate the system, starter, fan, lights, or sometimes all at the same time.
Let's say for any reason the bike does not like to start "as usual" (bad fuel, it fell over, etc...) and it is hot outside, wouldn't you not want to have ALL the possible battery capacity to get it back running again, especially when with a Grand Vista you can't push-start? So, here we come to my opposition of using the kill switch: if in hot weather the fan keeps on running, one talks to a neighbor, and the lights are still on, and at the same time one holds the brake lever (which activates the more power consuming brake light); doing this for a minute a weaker/older battery has probably used up already quite some capacity for really "nothing". If one goes click, click (kill - ignition switch), I have no problem, but why not use ONE switch (except your argument for programming the brain for an emergency situation; but for how long do you need to program? years?)....
I have seen with my own eyes exactly the above example mentioned and then the rider wondered why his Cruiser did not start and the battery had not enough capacity. I agree with you, a newer healthy battery wouldn't have much issue with it, but use of "capacity" is also ONE factor in "life expectancy" of the battery. The less stress on the battery during its life, the longer it lasts. FYI: I just yesterday replaced a battery that had perfect Voltage but NO capacity any longer. (cranking amps)... it was 11 years old when it "quit". With that said, I think I have done something right ;)