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Messages - NomadCF

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1
General Discussion / Re: New 2022 Kymco AK 550
« on: November 13, 2021, 07:00:45 PM »

No, there is definitely a clutch that is after any CVT in a scooter drive train. Even little 50 cc scooters have a clutch between the CVT and final drive gears at the rear wheel. However in the swing arm mounted engines with the CVT along the swing arm the clutch is a dry clutch. But in every scooter with a frame mounted engine that I've looked into the clutch is a wet clutch that shares the engine oil.
There is no clutch LEVER since the clutch is automatic. But there is a clutch. I HAVE been reading my service manual for the AK and there is an entire section just on the clutch and reduction gear set that is between the CVT and final drive/timing belt. And I have read the service manual for my wife's Metropolitan and my Burgman as well as worked on those. THERE IS A CLUTCH. The CVT is in place of a fixed gear transmission, but it does not replace the clutch. Basic vehicle drive train mechanics. Almost the only vehicle that may not have a clutch is an electric drive vehicle. But even then, if there is a gas motor, such as with a hybrid, there is a clutch in those as well.


And just to add to complexity any bike with DCT has TWO clutches! And those are usually wet clutches.


If you have a swing arm mounted CVT and clutch you don't have to be concerned with what oil goes into the engine... other than recommended viscosity and oil serviceability rating. But if the clutch is mounted as part of the engine casing, as in the AK 550, then you do.




BTW- whats "ma Orr"? typo? Oh, you were referring to JASO MA/MA2... and there definitely is mention of JASO in the owner manual. Been working with and seeing those specs on oil for over the last 15 years.

Feel free to upload a picture of the manual page asking/stating you need a MA(2) oil for the engine.

And no the AK550 nor does almost any other CVT have a wet clutch or require MA(2) type oil. This isn't even a question. Hell even some Harley's doesn't don't even require a MA(2) engine oil. As they have a separated systems/housing for they're wet clutch and engines.

I love how people throw around how many years they've been doing X. Like that matters, let the facts speak for themselves and not your perspective on life.

MA(2) oils are all about the lack of friction modifiers for your clutch. To much slippage and things won't engage. But in a CVT just like that's in the AK550, there is no gearing clutch or wet clutch.

2
General Discussion / Re: New 2022 Kymco AK 550
« on: November 13, 2021, 05:10:09 PM »

Why do you say that? My owner manual calls for using JASO type oil. EVERY bike with a wet clutch calls for using a JASO type oil. The minimum requirement with a wet clutch that the AK does have is that any oil you do use MUST NOT BE certified as Resource Conserving nor Energy Conserving since those designations indicate the inclusion of special extra slippery additives, over and above any other additives, which WILL destroy the clutch plates/pads over time. Usually the results of this happen within the span of one oil change but sometimes the more severe results may not be seen until the second oil change. In the USA there is an API circle on many oil bottles with an inner circle and outer ring. If the outer bottom ring is blank then it is good for using with a wet clutch. That outer bottom ring is where Resource Conserving or Energy Conserving will be indicated. Those bottles that don't have this circle should have that designated somewhere on the bottle or at least in documentation about the oil. JASO MA or JASO MA2 are simply certifications that indicate the oil is good for bikes with a wet clutch. In my past bikes I've usually used Rotella T6 full synthetic which is certified as JASO MA/MA2. Sometimes I have used SuperTech full synthetic 10w-40 until they changed it to make it a Resource Conserving oil and then I stopped. Sometimes I have used Valvoline when I can find it with the JASO MA certification. Personally I don't care what brand or viscosity oil anyone chooses to use. But if asked I will always say that if you have a wet clutch don't use any oil that is not certified JASO MA or is designated as Resource Conserving or Energy Conserving... unless you want to be doing clutch service in the near future.


So I agree that you don't have to use the oil bought from a dealer (if you do your own oil changes). But do be careful what oil you do use.


Thanks. And no, not a writer. But I am a detail person and a little anal about some things.  :o


The AK is a CVT there is no clutch. Also you should rerear your manual. There is no mention of the ma Orr ma2 oil. It only lists the weight.

Again CVTs don't have wet clutches!

3
General Discussion / Re: New 2022 Kymco AK 550
« on: November 13, 2021, 12:12:54 PM »
Oh, ya...i figured that out eventually :P

Just thinking there has to be some for the disparity. Road condition was the only thing i could come up with...And agreed!! The ACTUAL maintenance schedule...the one in the pretty kickarse box which ill keep for EVER...is pretty sensible and in line with other machines of its class.

Weird thing is that my certified kymco professional service provider would be unaware of the difference and COMPLETELY unwilling to listen to me about the difference even though i was looking right at the manual.

Ill stop about the service guy. I know i will.

This shop will probably also wrongly insist on having to use a jaso ma/ma2 oil in your AK, costing you possibly even more money. There's nothing "wrong" with using it. But you don't "have" to.

4
General Discussion / Re: 2022 AK550 Average Mileage
« on: November 07, 2021, 04:10:55 PM »
Ive been saying since I got this that the gauges are all out of wack. And I mean all of them from the fuel, speed-o and even the TPMS.

That being said, pre 15g sliders I was sitting between 63 to 65 mpg. And after I'm getting right around 53mpg. I calculate my mpg myself.

For 10k you'd think the gauges and dashboard would be more useful.

6
General Discussion / Re: New 2022 Kymco AK 550
« on: November 04, 2021, 09:45:04 PM »
Just a heads up, the US "variant" of the kymco AK550 has its first oil change listed at 600 miles in the manual.

7
General Discussion / Re: Where do you carry your cell phone?
« on: November 02, 2021, 06:49:06 PM »
My phone is either in the mount on above the dash, in one of the glove boxes, in the seat or in pocket. It all really depends on how lazy I'm feeling. I prefer it in it's mount as I like having access to my GPS/maps all the time. But if I'm going for just simple before dawn or night run. Then it ends up where ever was the last place I put it..... Which from time to time is at home... in the garage.

8
General Discussion / Re: 2022 AK550 Mileage
« on: October 27, 2021, 09:01:32 AM »
Full on the AK550 is when the gas is level with the metal plate just inside the filler neck. Anymore than that and you'll have a problem on a hot day as there is very little "extra" or expansion in these tanks. Also the gas cap on these take up a lot of the the room between that metal plate and the top of the neck.

Side note, don't put the hose into the hole in that metal plate to fill it. You won't be able to see anything and the pump I was on at the time didn't auto shut-off when the gas reached the hose nozzle.

9
General Discussion / Re: AK550 cruise control options?
« on: October 26, 2021, 12:21:47 AM »
I haven't seen any real cruise control addon for the AK550 only throttle locks. The slimmest and most natural looking (IMHO) is the Kaoko KYM105 Throttle Lock.

10
I'm certainly no mechanical expert, and only toss these thoughts out there with that much weight behind them....

I think roller weights 'cannot' be miss-seated from the factory - unless they have now worn so far (thousands of miles of riding)  that they have shrunken in their seats. A miss- seated weight would prevent the parts from closing properly - and would cause severe issues and be quickly noted on the first ride. (new scooters do not come with Dr P slide weights)
And as for a variator nut not reaching the proper torque: the torque figure is supplied to insure that it does not come loose (or is so massively over-torqued that it destroys something) I'm thinking it is either loose, and finger tight flopping, or tight enough to secure the parts. I don't see that there is any in-between: it is either loose, or it is not....and again it would show itself very, very soon ---within a mile down the road.

I offer these counter-remarks because I think we might be unnecessarily alarming the fellow who is hearing/feeling something on his 550. I for one - do not think there is a mechanical fault at work in his scooter.

Stig

And you very well would be right. But the fact remains that if I used the lower end of the torque spec I got a thump on decel. And just because some comes from a factory doesn't mean it's perfect. That variator cover could be just slightly cockeyed or sticking on one side. Which what result in a weight offset issue.

And again, as I've said on a few of these threads; mine doesn't have this thump or vibration on decel. And I could only create one by creating these two issues. Take it for what it's worth or not.

11
I *may* have found your vibration/thump. I just got done swapping my rollers out for 15g sliders. And I was able to create what think is the effect your talking about.

With everything apart I tried creating this issue and I was able to under the following conditions.
1) rollers or sliders werent seated right.
2) the variator bolt wasn't torqued enough. This one's a hard one is the spec is so open about how much to torque the bolt.
3) a variation on #1

Basically what I could recreate was the variator would break loose or snap out de-accelerating under 2800-4200 rpms. It appears the belt applies to much press and there isn't enough resistance from the variator to slowly move back out to it's at rest location and it just jump out alittle.

Also that video about replacing the variator on the AK is F'ing awful! Not only does It just plainly leave out a bunch of stuff, a glasses over all the small stuff as well! I wouldn't even call it a reference at this point. It was enough to show you all the large pieces and play.... But it's all the small stuff that really is what matters!!!

12
General Discussion / Re: 2022 AK550 Mileage
« on: October 17, 2021, 09:43:05 PM »
I ignore my gas gauge, its as bad as the speedo and the dash illumination sensor. I have a dashboard cover screen and I'm tempted to actually blackout those parts along with the bottom part of the mode indicator lights.

As we all have with every other bike. I go by my mileage and my riding style during that tank full. I'm fill up at about 180 to 190 on a normal tank and around 140 on a heavy throttle tank with about 3 gal.

13
General Discussion / AK550 - New luggage rack
« on: October 13, 2021, 03:33:00 AM »
I finally got around to working on the bike again, I got the new rack mounted up and sorting out the wiring for some addition brake lights and blinkers. I "tapped" into the existing wiring connection/ block at the rear of the bike. It's in the back under the bucket on the riders right hand side (opposite of the kick stand). The blocks layout starting from the TOP LEFT is as follows
  • Top Left - Blinker
  • Top Right - Brake
  • Middle Left - Empty
  • Middle Right - Unknown
  • Bottom Left - Blinker
  • Bottom Right - Blinker







14
General Discussion / Re: AK 550 Drive Belt
« on: October 09, 2021, 06:00:29 PM »
@NomadCF, interesting subject coming up.

How many rotten drivebelts on SCOOTERS have you personally seen and replaced streetsides?

Scooters, zero. I rarely ride with other scooters.

Motorcycles, three times I've seen a belt get shredded. One has just been replaced with in the last ~200 miles. We know that was if you met up with him at the dealer that just replaced it. The second time was just over th boarder of West Virginia. It was maybe damp out and the truck Infront of us didn't have a cover. The short of is that these metal "strips" came flying out and the other rider thought he missed it. But as the rear tires rolled over it. It twisted it up and turned it into a razor blade. Sliced it part way across. And the third, I have no idea the other then the belt let go. It could have been "30 yrs" and dry rotted for all I know.

Again I've also bought bike with a drive shaft. Sure my scooters have all been belts. But I rarely keep them for long. While I enjoy riding scooters, it doesn't last long before I'm looking for a bike again. My avg for a scooter is about 2 yrs whereas my avg for keeping a bike is 8yrs. But maybe the 550 will be different.

And yes I get it, I don't seem to fit into the forum very well. I ride fast, don't gear up and seem to disagree with most of yous about everything.

15
General Discussion / Re: AK 550 Drive Belt
« on: October 07, 2021, 11:57:02 PM »
People dump bikes for scooters because they're tired of fooling with chains. Why would anyone want to remove the belt for a chain?!
Or, is the important thing is that it's a 'MOD' --- even if you've gained nothing....because Kymco doesn't know as much as the modders do?
Stig

Clearly you've never been alone or with a group where someone's had their belt either break or get trashed while riding. Belts aren't my favorite thing but no one can deny a chains ability to be easily replaced on the side of the road. Sure their area few belt replacement friendly bikes. But even then unless your chains hidden under a mound of plastic. It's still going to be more replacement friendly then a belt.

Yes the belt in most other ways is "superior". It requires less maintenance, quieter, and cleaner. But everything comes at a cost.

Then again my preference has always been shaft drives. I can't think of a more reliable transfer method.

Ps. There was one caveat to this, the old (1920?) non-teeth driven belt drives. Hell one of those you could use an old (heavy) dressing belt to how will your way to "home".


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