Author Topic: More Power!  (Read 4035 times)

PeTroL42

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More Power!
« on: December 29, 2013, 11:19:48 PM »
It's been a little quiet around here so I'll share to the community what I did to get more power for not a lot of money.

What I did was advance my ignition timing by modifying the ignition pickup but do this mod at your own risk since the slightest movement of the ignition pickup while riding will shut the engine off.  This happened to me 4 times and since I brought some tools, I was able to get going again but I would be on the side of the road for 15-20mins trying to slide the ignition pickup back into place. 

What I suggest before trying this mod is to buy a new ignition pickup from Ebay.  I was able to buy them for around $15 bucks shipped.  Lookup "GY6 pickup coil".  The reason for this is the stock Kymco ignition pickup has little posts that slide into the screw holes.  This prevents the ignition pickup from moving and like I said, the slightest movement will shutoff the engine. 

What you need to do to the ignition pickup is to use a Dremel tool to grind the screw holes so you could slot the ignition pickup.



If you look closely at the above pic, you could see that I grinded the screw holes so I could slot the ignition pickup upwards.  This advances the timing a little bit but the power gains are pretty noticeable.

Here is a pic of the ignition pickup installed.  If you look closely, you could see how the pickup is moved slightly upwards:



As I mentioned earlier, the slightest movement of the ignition pickup will shut the engine off leaving you stranded if you didn't bring tools with you.  What I did to remedy the situation is I installed a washer only on ones side of the pickup.  You can't see the washer in the pic above because it's under the pickup but I installed one on the top screw hole and none on the bottom screw hole.  I did use lock washers on both screw holes though.  Since I installed that washer, I have had about 500 trouble free miles.

I installed a tach on my Super 8 a little while ago:



and I recommend everyone get one since you could see what RPMs your motor is turning at any given moment. 

Before advancing my timing, at full throttle my Super 8 would wind up to 6600 RPMs, then lower to 6300 RPMs and then would take a brief moment before the RPMs started to climb again.  This was really noticeable and I was sort of pissed off at the weak acceleration of my Super 8.

After advancing the timing, my Super 8 would shoot up to 7200 RPMs, then lower to 6800 RPMs and then would start to climb the RPM range without much hesitation.  It was really noticeable and I instantly enjoyed my ride much more.

This is a cheap modification with noticeable power gains but I have to give another "Do at your own risk" as this could potentially go bad for you if you don't know what you're doing.  Also, you HAVE to use Premium unleaded if you do this mod because detonation will destroy your motor.  Also, I just started carrying a bottle of Octane booster for those situations where you roll up to a gas station with single hose nozzles.  I've read that you're getting anywhere from 1/3 to 3/4 of a gallon of Regular unleaded before the Premium stuff starts shooting out.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 11:25:24 PM by PeTroL42 »

wkreps

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Re: More Power!
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2014, 03:34:49 AM »
Where did you get your tachometer, brand, cost, etc? Did it come with install instructions? I wouldn't know where to start to run the wiring for it.
Wayne



Vivo

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Re: More Power!
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2014, 05:27:08 AM »
Very interesting mod Pe Trol42...

245luigi

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Re: More Power!
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2014, 12:04:45 PM »
Thats a trail tech tach. Say that 3xs fast!
Currently:
2012 Kymco Like70
72cc Malossi BBK
Dell'Orto PHBG 19 AS Carb
52 Pilot Jet
92 Main Jet
W7 Needle, 40 Slide
2T atomizer + bushing
Tecnigas Triops
Malossi Torque Driver

wkreps

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Re: More Power!
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2014, 05:53:21 PM »
I'd be interested in a review of that tach after you've used it for a while. I'm also interested in what knowing the RPM's does for you. Is it just a performance measurement or can more be done with it?
Wayne



PeTroL42

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Re: More Power!
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2014, 11:11:18 PM »
Where did you get your tachometer, brand, cost, etc? Did it come with install instructions? I wouldn't know where to start to run the wiring for it.

The brand of the tach is Trail Tech and it costs $40 bucks and I think I bought it from ebay.  The only thing the instructions tell you is how to wrap the end of the wire around the spark plug wire.

I ran my wire down the center where that rubber VIN plate cover is.  I used a metal coat hangar and shoved it in from the bottom of the scooter to where that VIN plate is and I tied the Tach wire to the hangar and pulled it through.

I recently got a Temp Gauge from the same company and installed it the same way.



The temp gauge costs almost $50 bucks total.  The gauge itself is about $43 but you HAVE to buy an extension cable since the standard cable is unbelievably short.  The extension cable costs $7 bucks and I bought the temp gauge from the Trail Tech website.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2014, 11:13:17 PM by PeTroL42 »

Vivo

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Re: More Power!
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2014, 02:23:51 AM »
Are those gauges water proof?

wkreps

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Re: More Power!
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2014, 02:29:34 AM »
Maybe you could go more into how one would use these gauges for troubleshooting or just how they help you in general. How does knowing the engine temp help you? If I am not modding my Super8 150, what does knowing the RPM's get me?

I'm not being sarcastic either, just trying to learn something.
Wayne



PeTroL42

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Re: More Power!
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2014, 02:35:08 AM »
Are those gauges water proof?

I'm not sure and it doesn't say anywhere on the packaging that it is.

I'm not too concerned though since I picked up a SYM HD200 which is now my everyday scooter while my Super 8 is now a project bike that I don't intend to ride that often, especially in the rain.


Vivo

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Re: More Power!
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2014, 02:45:23 AM »
Maybe you could go more into how one would use these gauges for troubleshooting or just how they help you in general. How does knowing the engine temp help you? If I am not modding my Super8 150, what does knowing the RPM's get me?

I'm not being sarcastic either, just trying to learn something.

Two things Sir... One, some people would add things just because they look nice... gauges, stickers, lights, chrome, paint...etc...  and the other, a little bit of information like RPM, Temp, etc. might come in handy in the future if one needs it...  One use of the engine temp is that it will warn you if you're low on oil... the oil has two functions... lubrication and heat dissipation...

PeTroL42

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Re: More Power!
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2014, 04:13:57 AM »
I got the temp gauge because I was concerned that I may be overheating when I'm at wide open throttle. 

There are times when I'm at wide open throttle for some distance and being able to monitor my engine temp gives me a better piece of mind.

Also, I'm not done modding my Super 8.  I have a Big Bore Kit with a high compression piston that I'm going to install soon along with a Koso High Flow oil pump.  Knowing the temp after modding my scooter will give me an idea of how hard I could push my scooter. 

Also, I have a fan scoop, an oil cooler and a high flow fan (supposedly) that I want to install and I want to see if those parts help in aiding with cooling and the only way to know is if you have a temp gauge.

wkreps

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Re: More Power!
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2014, 02:04:42 AM »
Thanks for the feedback guys. I too have concerns about running at WOT and the engine temp would be a good way to see if something is out of the norm. Creating a good baseline would be an absolute necessity. I'd be interested in what temps you are running once you get it and what the effects of WOT are on those temps. This is all good info on how to collect data before you start messing around with the scoot and then not knowing how you affected it.

What really makes me think is how you ramped up the RPM's by almost 10% by just slightly moving the ignition pickup. This makes me think that the bike is restricted. Realistically can't you get these small engines up to 8000 RPM's without really a fear of damaging them? That's a 20% boost over your original 6600 RPM which could translate into some real speed increases. I don't understand how it works so I'm not sure what you're saying by "Also, you HAVE to use Premium unleaded if you do this mod because detonation will destroy your motor.". Could you explain or point me in the direction (webpage) of how the timing works and what you did by moving it. Sorry not a gear head . . . . . Yet   :)
Wayne



PeTroL42

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Re: More Power!
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2014, 06:33:01 AM »
Thanks for the feedback guys. I too have concerns about running at WOT and the engine temp would be a good way to see if something is out of the norm. Creating a good baseline would be an absolute necessity. I'd be interested in what temps you are running once you get it and what the effects of WOT are on those temps. This is all good info on how to collect data before you start messing around with the scoot and then not knowing how you affected it.

What really makes me think is how you ramped up the RPM's by almost 10% by just slightly moving the ignition pickup. This makes me think that the bike is restricted. Realistically can't you get these small engines up to 8000 RPM's without really a fear of damaging them? That's a 20% boost over your original 6600 RPM which could translate into some real speed increases. I don't understand how it works so I'm not sure what you're saying by "Also, you HAVE to use Premium unleaded if you do this mod because detonation will destroy your motor.". Could you explain or point me in the direction (webpage) of how the timing works and what you did by moving it. Sorry not a gear head . . . . . Yet   :)

I just got the temp gauge so I have very limited info on WOT runs.

So far, I think the hottest I got the temp gauge was 360 degrees.  What amazes me though is how fast the temp drops after you get off WOT.  It'll go from 360 degrees down to 320 degrees in like a couple of seconds and it will drop below 300 degrees if you've been idling at a stop light.  One thing to note is that these temps were obtained in fairly cool weather so I haven't been able to see how the temps look during summer time weather but since summer is right around the corner, it's only a matter of time before I find out.

And as far as the ignition mod, I'm glad I did it and no way in hell I'm going back to stock ignition timing unless the other mods I do are making my motor knock. 

Kymco probably makes their scooters like this to increase reliability.


Vivo

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Re: More Power!
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2014, 02:31:11 AM »
Kymco is not a backyard Chinese chop shop... they make engines for BMW, remember? They design, test, redesign, test,..etc. their products for consumer's satisfaction...

MotoRandy123

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Re: More Power!
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2014, 09:45:14 PM »
We used to mod the timing on the old Kawasaki Concours by 5 degrees for a little boost.

360 degrees?!? Are you sure that is correct? Most engines oil temps are 200 and same with
water temps. I never read the temp on a 2 stroke though....

If you can find a turbulator for your bike it would give you some torque off the line.
I had one on a Super Sherpa a while ago but only see them for HD's lately.

http://www.amazon.com/BKRider-Turbulator-For-Harley-Davidson-Carbs/dp/B007KPUUKS
« Last Edit: April 06, 2014, 09:49:21 PM by MotoRandy123 »
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