Author Topic: Trying out Water Wetter  (Read 3585 times)

BettinANDlosing

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Trying out Water Wetter
« on: April 27, 2015, 11:01:31 PM »
Hey everyone, just thought I'd start a topic on the Redline Racing product "Hyperlube water wetter" coolant additive. Heard mixed reviews so I decided to try it myself. Drained the coolant, just did a flush so I didn't bother flushing with distilled water. Added about .2L Water Wetter to my ~2L cooling system. My temps before were slightly high during summer, stop and go traffic would almost always be at 3 bars (Out of 5). My fan would constantly turn on in traffic. The bottle of Water Wetter was only $13 and should be enough for 3 or 4 coolant flushes, or pretty much a lifetime supply. I'll keep everyone posted, good and bad.
2002 Kymco B&W 300; MRP 78MM "300CC", Naraku cam, Yoshimura rS3 exhaust, 17g Sliders, Yellow torque spring drilled airbox, stock carb #115 main #40 pj.

2001 "Yamaha" Zuma AKA MBK Booster; MHR OverRange, Dellorto 19mm BHBG, Polini "big" intake, RS-3 Rear shock, Stock cylinder.

boo

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a few years back
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2015, 01:55:51 AM »
a friend I used to ride with used Water Wetter in his Honda motorcycle. This particular model was know to have oil flow problems.
He never mentioned how well it worked but he always used it in his cooling system.
O yea, his cycle shop recommended it.

Let us know if you see good results.
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BettinANDlosing

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Re: Trying out Water Wetter
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2015, 05:13:42 AM »
So far mixed results. Slightly longer to turn the fan on in traffic. Might try with distilled water soon, they list that as the coolest running setup. No magic bullet yet.
2002 Kymco B&W 300; MRP 78MM "300CC", Naraku cam, Yoshimura rS3 exhaust, 17g Sliders, Yellow torque spring drilled airbox, stock carb #115 main #40 pj.

2001 "Yamaha" Zuma AKA MBK Booster; MHR OverRange, Dellorto 19mm BHBG, Polini "big" intake, RS-3 Rear shock, Stock cylinder.

2wheelfun

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Re: Trying out Water Wetter
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2015, 10:29:46 PM »
Bet I've got some Abracadabra majic fix in a can. You'll get 200 mpg and never have to fix your scooter again, guaranteed. Only $49.99 a can, but today if you order it's only $29.99 a can. Hurry up and order soon, today only.

souzamoto

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Re: Trying out Water Wetter
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2015, 02:20:55 AM »
I use water wetter in all my race bikes both on and off road.
On the Track, my Ducati runs cooler. Also, as you are not allowed to run coolant on tracks, the water wetter gives an extra boast to distilled water. On the street, i run coolant. If it freezes in the winter i don't have to worry about problems.
CJS

Jamez

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Re: Trying out Water Wetter
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2015, 04:22:30 PM »
Bet I've got some Abracadabra majic fix in a can. You'll get 200 mpg and never have to fix your scooter again, guaranteed. Only $49.99 a can, but today if you order it's only $29.99 a can. Hurry up and order soon, today only.

I'll have what he's having  ;D
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0BARK4322

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Re: Trying out Water Wetter
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2015, 01:11:52 AM »
Bet I've got some Abracadabra majic fix in a can. You'll get 200 mpg and never have to fix your scooter again, guaranteed. Only $49.99 a can, but today if you order it's only $29.99 a can. Hurry up and order soon, today only.
WHAT THE....LOL
ALL STOCK

Yager200i

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Re: Trying out Water Wetter
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2015, 07:38:06 PM »
I did an analysis of Water Wetter here:
http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=3649.msg39938

Quoting from that post:
=================================
I also bought some Water-Wetter. The basic marketing premise behind Water-Wetter is that it reduces the surface tension of water. It also contains anti-corrosion ingredients.

Should localized boiling occur in the cylinder head coolant passages, the steam bubbles would form, come into contact with cooler surrounding coolant and collapse, which creates shock waves that can strip the protective metal oxide layer from the coolant passage.

Should your water pump cavitate (i.e.: turn so fast that it literally lowers the suction pressure so much that the liquid flashes to steam), the same effect would take place, with the collapsing steam bubbles stripping off the pump impellar's protective passivation layer.

Water-Wetter claims to attack this problem in two ways:
1) It reduces the surface tension of these bubbles, allowing for smaller bubble formation and hence smaller shockwaves, and hence less metal oxide (passivation) layer erosion.

2) The anti-corrosion ingredients help to quickly form a new protective metal oxide layer in those instances where the old layer has been stripped off.

Here are the ingredients of Water-Wetter, according to its MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet):
http://www.redlineoil.com/content/files/tech/WaterWetter%20MSDS.pdf

---------------
1) Di-isopropyl alcohol ether: 1-40%
(Note: They mis-spell this in the MSDS as 'Dilsopropyl alcohol ether'.)
(Note: The listed CAS #25265-71-8 is for dipropylene glycol.)

2) Tri-isopropyl alcohol diether: 1-40%
(Note: The listed CAS #24800-44-0 is for tripropylene glycol.)

3) Sodium molybdate: 2-10%
(Note: The listed CAS #10102-40-6 is for molybdic acid sodium salt dihydrate.)

4) Tolyltriazole: 1-3%
(Note: The listed CAS #29385-43-1 is for tolyltriazole.)

5) Polysiloxane polymer: n/a
---------------

NOTE: There is no such thing as Di-isopropyl alcohol ether (or Dilsopropyl alcohol ether). The CAS number on the Water-Wetter MSDS is actually dipropylene glycol.

NOTE: There is no such thing as Tri-isopropyl alcohol diether. The CAS number on the Water-Wetter MSDS is actually tripropylene glycol.

The anti-corrosion ingredients are Sodium Molybdate and Tolyltriazole.

The Polysiloxane polymer acts as a stabilizer for the silicates in the propylene glycol, preventing it from coming out of solution.

So, it would appear that Water-Wetter is nothing more than propylene glycol anti-freeze (silicate-based), with sodium molybdate and tolyltriazole anti-corrosion ingredients, with a silicate stabilizer.

Note that you can mix ethylene glycol and propylene glycol together, but doing so makes it impossible to check the coolant's strength using a hydrometer, owing to the differences in the specific gravities of the two coolants.


RedLine makes the following claims:
-----
CLAIM: Unique agent for cooling systems that doubles the wetting ability of water

Yes, of course it increases the 'wetting ability', if compared to straight water with no additives. So does regular old ethylene glycol and propylene glycol anti-freeze.
-----
CLAIM: Rust and corrosion protection allows for use of straight water in racing or reduced antifreeze levels in warm climates

Water-wetter does provide corrosion-protection chemicals that may not be in your existing anti-freeze. If those chemicals are already in your existing anti-freeze, then Water-Wetter provides no additional benefit in this regard.

As for the 'reduced antifreeze levels' (which should read 'reduced antifreeze concentration' to avoid confusion) claim, that's because Water-Wetter IS primarily anti-freeze. You're simply swapping ethylene glycol for propylene glycol.
-----
CLAIM: Improves heat transfer and reduces cylinder head temperature

Again, over straight water, this would be true. While straight water has greater heat transfer capabilities than either ethylene glycol or propylene glycol, that is only up to the boiling point of water. Once you exceed that point, the heat transfer capability of straight water declines precipitously, because the boiling leads to less metal being exposed to water and more being exposed to steam (note that if you had enough coolant flow to strip the bubbles from the metal surface, you would actually see an increased heat transfer capability when boiling occurred, but then you'd also have high enough flow to erode the aluminum oxide passivation layer, which would result in rapid corrosion).

So by adding Water-Wetter to straight water, you're increasing the 'wetting ability' of the water, allowing smaller steam bubbles to form during boiling, and as such, increasing the capability of the fluid to transfer heat. That said, regular old propylene glycol will do the same thing (as would regular old ethylene glycol).

In addition, in older engines which have only run water as their coolant, there may be scale lining the radiator tubes and cylinder coolant passages. The addition of Water-Wetter may help to loosen and remove that scale, thereby increasing the heat transfer capabilities. For new engines, Water-Wetter would provide no benefit in this regard.

Extensive dyno testing has proven that the heat transfer capabilities fall within the margins of testing error when comparing straight water to water + Water Wetter, and when comparing a 50:50 antifreeze:water mixture to that same mixture supplemented with Water Wetter.
-----
CLAIM: May allow more spark advance for increase power and efficiency

This would be true for straight water based coolant systems that are 'on the edge' in regards to being able to dump engine heat. For systems that are capable of dumping engine heat easily, or for ethylene glycol or propylene glycol based coolant systems, Water-Wetter would provide no benefit in this regard.
-----
CLAIM: Compatible with new or used antifreeze (including DEX-COOL and long-life versions) to improve the heat transfer of ethylene and propylene glycol systems

For ethylene glycol based coolant systems, I can see where this would be true. For propylene glycol based coolant systems, I can't see how adding more propylene glycol (which is the primary component of Water-Wetter) would make a difference.
-----
CLAIM: Satisfies ASTM D2570 and ASTM D1384 corrosion tests for glycol-based antifreezes

This much is true.
-----

Another aside... it has been said that some motorcycle tracks don't allow ethylene glycol or propylene glycol coolant when racing, because a crash leading to a coolant leak would leave a slick spot that could be dangerous to racers. Yet, they allow straight water and Water-Wetter. Considering that Water-Wetter is primarily propylene glycol, perhaps those race tracks should rethink this policy.
=================================

2wheelfun

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Re: Trying out Water Wetter
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2015, 12:03:04 AM »
To each his own, just like choices with oil. With coolant I'd be happy with prestone 50/50 mix and change it every 3 or 4 years with a water flush.

BettinANDlosing

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Re: Trying out Water Wetter
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2015, 03:47:18 AM »
To each his own, just like choices with oil. With coolant I'd be happy with prestone 50/50 mix and change it every 3 or 4 years with a water flush.

It's not quite that simple with antifreeze. With our scooters you CAN'T use anything with silicate, they will eat up the water pump seals!!!
2002 Kymco B&W 300; MRP 78MM "300CC", Naraku cam, Yoshimura rS3 exhaust, 17g Sliders, Yellow torque spring drilled airbox, stock carb #115 main #40 pj.

2001 "Yamaha" Zuma AKA MBK Booster; MHR OverRange, Dellorto 19mm BHBG, Polini "big" intake, RS-3 Rear shock, Stock cylinder.

2wheelfun

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Re: Trying out Water Wetter
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2015, 07:38:15 AM »
It's not quite that simple with antifreeze. With our scooters you CAN'T use anything with silicate, they will eat up the water pump seals!!!
Peak 50/50 is silicate free, I imagine the other heavies are too.     http://www.autozone.com/antifreeze-radiator-additives-and-windshield-wash-fluid/antifreeze/peak-50-50-long-life-antifreeze-and-coolant/513652_0_0/

Yager200i

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Re: Trying out Water Wetter
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2015, 02:21:11 AM »
Ok, this will blow your mind:
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_109620/article.html
"At the Argonne National Laboratory in the US, researchers found that the addition of 3 percent (by volume) of copper oxide nanoparticles to ethylene glycol increased its heat conduction by 15 percent. However, the heat-transfer capability of ethylene glycol grew by a stunning 40 percent when only 0.3 percent of 10 nanometer diameter spheres of pure copper were suspended in it."

Now, where do we get 10 nanometer (0.01 micron) diameter spheres of pure copper?

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