Author Topic: Performance Air Filter?  (Read 11694 times)

baddi

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Re: Performance Air Filter?
« Reply #45 on: April 17, 2012, 10:25:17 AM »
Hey guys, i've done alot of thinking, and i think that i've figured out what the rpm are for, when saying how strong the spring are. :D
Perhaps its because the spring will force the variator down in gear faster than the rpm will fall, so the rpm wont fall below 1500 on a 1500rpm spring before it is fully downgeared, and you have stopped. :p

This also matches with what you've been saying about the feeling of more power, as you would start at higher rpm after breaking without stopping. It also matches with what i've been told, that the spring doesn't have any purpose but to keep the belt tight, as the rpm would never fall to the lower limit, as this limit is below idle speed when using the 30kg/800rpm spring. :)
First Kymco agility 50 (2008) 11.000+ km (dead)
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zombie

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Re: Performance Air Filter?
« Reply #46 on: April 18, 2012, 04:29:47 AM »
I think we have a winner!!! The difference in rpm shift points...
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streido

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Re: Performance Air Filter?
« Reply #47 on: April 18, 2012, 08:48:38 AM »
Baddi from my understanding of the rpm rating system for the springs it is best described as this,

A 1000rpm torque spring will shift the rpm required to open the rear pulley up by 1000rpm.
A 1500rpm spring will shift it up 1500rpm, 2000rpm will shift it up 2000rpm, etc from stock. I think  :-\

A stiffer spring will mean the gearing is shifting back to "1st" gear quicker after letting off the throttle than a stock or light spring, also when you go uphill and your rpm drops off, the stiffer spring will shift it down quicker than a softer or stock spring, thus improving uphill speed and overall acceration.
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baddi

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Re: Performance Air Filter?
« Reply #48 on: April 18, 2012, 09:10:22 AM »
Baddi from my understanding of the rpm rating system for the springs it is best described as this,

A 1000rpm torque spring will shift the rpm required to open the rear pulley up by 1000rpm.
A 1500rpm spring will shift it up 1500rpm, 2000rpm will shift it up 2000rpm, etc from stock. I think  :-\

A stiffer spring will mean the gearing is shifting back to "1st" gear quicker after letting off the throttle than a stock or light spring, also when you go uphill and your rpm drops off, the stiffer spring will shift it down quicker than a softer or stock spring, thus improving uphill speed and overall acceration.

I still cant see how it will improve overall accelleration, as accelleration is upgearing, and this helps downgearing.
Eeeeerh well, i see how it will help accellerating after braking, but not from 0, which is how i would measure accelleration. :D
First Kymco agility 50 (2008) 11.000+ km (dead)
Second kymco agility 50 (2010) 20.000+ km. Project Fuel Injection. Stolen.
Kymco K-pipe 125 (2014) 7400 km.

streido

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Re: Performance Air Filter?
« Reply #49 on: April 18, 2012, 09:58:22 AM »
Maybe it my imagination but i def feel quicker from a standing start to speed. My theory would be because it stops me gearing up too fast and losing my powerband? I imagine it like a gearbox on a car, if i accelerate 0-40 but change up gear too soon i wont be a quick to 40 as aomeone who uses all the power in each gear before changing up? I know we dont have "gears" as such but its the best way i can put across what i think happens.

Maybe come summer if i get some tinker time i will test out my theory if i get time and try stock, 1000rpm and 1500rpm spring on a timed 0-40 run and compare results.
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baddi

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Re: Performance Air Filter?
« Reply #50 on: April 18, 2012, 11:14:18 AM »
Maybe it my imagination but i def feel quicker from a standing start to speed. My theory would be because it stops me gearing up too fast and losing my powerband? I imagine it like a gearbox on a car, if i accelerate 0-40 but change up gear too soon i wont be a quick to 40 as aomeone who uses all the power in each gear before changing up? I know we dont have "gears" as such but its the best way i can put across what i think happens.

Maybe come summer if i get some tinker time i will test out my theory if i get time and try stock, 1000rpm and 1500rpm spring on a timed 0-40 run and compare results.

It will only gear up too soon if you drive with too heavy rollers with the standart spring, as these rollers then would be the right rollers for the stronger spring. This is the reason why we can choose diffrent weights of rollers, as heavier rollers will gear up at lower rpm, while lighter rollers will gear up at higher rpm. (Ask me for physics, if you want the proof ;) )
This was the main reason i started saying that the stronger spring were stupid, because you will restore more power from the engine when accellerating from 0, with the right roller weight to a lighter spring. :)


IF you test diffrent springs, then remember to try diffrent rollers for each spring, as the rollers are used to control the up-gearing. :)
First Kymco agility 50 (2008) 11.000+ km (dead)
Second kymco agility 50 (2010) 20.000+ km. Project Fuel Injection. Stolen.
Kymco K-pipe 125 (2014) 7400 km.

streido

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Re: Performance Air Filter?
« Reply #51 on: April 18, 2012, 01:59:25 PM »
Yup, i know i would need to swap rollers to match the spring. After thinking about it tho i probably wont bother as i would be wasting my time. I remember i tuned my rollers and variator side 1st on my stock rated spring but no matter which weight rollers i used it did not achieve anywhere near the performance i gained from the stiffer rear spring in terms of re-acceleration and going uphills.

For me if i was on a stock rear spring i expect i would need a lot lighter rollers to gain anywhere near my uphill speeds and then with that i expect i would run into issues with losing some top end. The theory is a stiffer spring lets you use heavier rollers to compensate bit that wont work for me, anything over 5.5g, even 5.75g, is too heavy on all stiffness of spring for me, i cant live with crawling up to speed, i want it to get up there quicker.

As i said before, on a stock rated spring i drop to around 20mph up a hill i use to test run on, with all weights of rollers ( in fact on some 7.5g rollers it went under 20mph!!!) . On the same hill with my stiff spring and 5.5g rollers i can blast up the hill at 30-31mph no problem (ok maybe "blast" is not the best description of 30mph but you get my idea).

What i would like to do is have a run on my current set up and note speeds achieved in various conditions, then go back to 100% stock (but still derestricted) and see just how bad it actually feels as stock. I may well do that later in summer if i have some free time to burn.

I reckon once i re-fit my open filter and get my jetting perfect on it i will be running my A50 as best i can without going up to a BBK.

At the end of the day as long as each of us is happy with our own rides then who gives a monkey's? Thats whats so good about the scooter scene, each person can easily and pretty cheaply tune their scooter to what suits their own needs. :)
Chaos is my co-pilot.

zombie

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Re: Performance Air Filter?
« Reply #52 on: April 19, 2012, 12:22:38 AM »
I still cant see how it will improve overall accelleration, as accelleration is upgearing, and this helps downgearing.
Eeeeerh well, i see how it will help accellerating after braking, but not from 0, which is how i would measure accelleration. :D

It greatly helps take off because it stays on the lowest ratio until your torque pulls it open. Softer springs allow the torque drive to open sooner giving a taller gear to soon for most set ups. So you could be at 30=40mph before the gears even begin to move. That leaves a Whole lot of speed yet to come.
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OregonDad

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Re: Performance Air Filter?
« Reply #53 on: April 19, 2012, 09:24:18 AM »
Anyone have any experience with OKO brand springs?

zombie

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Re: Performance Air Filter?
« Reply #54 on: April 20, 2012, 12:36:04 AM »
Oko is a Quality manufacturer. Many of their items are bootlegged tho. Just choose a reliable source.
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

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