Author Topic: FOR ALL THE LOVERS OF SLIDERS COMPARED TO ROLLERS  (Read 2605 times)

feebleknievel

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 227
    • View Profile
    • Kickin Country hITS
FOR ALL THE LOVERS OF SLIDERS COMPARED TO ROLLERS
« on: September 23, 2013, 02:30:45 AM »
here is a good description of sliders - VS - rollers
« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 02:33:41 AM by feebleknievel »

8eeman77

  • Work hard, ride safe
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 48
  • I'm a scooter loving Apiarist
    • View Profile
Re: FOR ALL THE LOVERS OF SLIDERS COMPARED TO ROLLERS
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2013, 02:40:09 PM »
I see the advantages of the slider in the video. My worry is that nobody knows about it how to install Dr. Pulley sliders here in Australia. I'm not sure whether my scooter mechanic has heard if these. Do they void a warranty once installed?!
The Kymco DT 300i ABS is the best scooter you can get. I love it's carefree automatic ride. I would like to see kymco make a 600cc version but no heavier then the 300. I would buy it for sure

de-dee

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 286
    • View Profile
Re: FOR ALL THE LOVERS OF SLIDERS COMPARED TO ROLLERS
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2013, 08:18:38 PM »
  the warenty has no ,it would be the same as changing your tires,  and if you do lots of highway , you will have lower RPM.  so It is better for the motor, tranny , and gas milage,. 

feebleknievel

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 227
    • View Profile
    • Kickin Country hITS
Re: FOR ALL THE LOVERS OF SLIDERS COMPARED TO ROLLERS
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2013, 01:08:56 AM »
8 it's very simple a baby could do it you can do it.in a range of 10 i'd say its a slight 4 in the non difficult range go to you tube n type slider change  even watching  others doi it on there diff kind of machines will male it easy to do

Cvitalo

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 19
  • Kymco Downtown 300i
    • View Profile
Re: FOR ALL THE LOVERS OF SLIDERS COMPARED TO ROLLERS
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2016, 10:58:34 AM »
This video in the first post is great and everyone are putting Dr. Pulley sliders. It seems I cannot find the real comparison between rollers and sliders in the forum. There is a huge difference in the price. Dr. Pulley sliders cost about 55$ with shipping, and I can find quality rollers for a price of 17$.

Did anyone did  ;D a real comparison of the same size and weight (for example 20x12 14g) rollers vs  same size and wight Dr. Pulley sliders? How do day influence acceleration (in lower and highr speeds) and max speed? Everything is written about Dr. Pulley. But what about cheaper solution?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 11:09:41 AM by Cvitalo »
Cpi Popcorn 50, Aprilia Sportcitiy 200i, Aprilia Scarabeo 250i, Aprilia Scarabeo 200i, Yamaha Majesty 400, Kymco Downtown 300i

TANWare

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 552
  • E3.38, RP oil Eng & FD, Dr Pulley 20x12 14 gr
    • View Profile
Re: FOR ALL THE LOVERS OF SLIDERS COMPARED TO ROLLERS
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2016, 04:23:49 PM »
From memory the 14gr sliders give about 1 second better 0-60 MPH time. The RPM under acceleration is about 500 RPM higher up to 60 MPH wot. From 50 MPH on the cruising RPM seems lower. Top speed seems unaffected I get about 92 MPH indicated.

As far as delay, I have no flat spot. Now if rolling and going WOT there is a delay for the CVT to wind into the loaded position. If anything the sliders seems faster in the response here.

Stig / Major Tom

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14342
  • Rural Ohio
    • View Profile
Re: FOR ALL THE LOVERS OF SLIDERS COMPARED TO ROLLERS
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2016, 07:54:54 PM »
IMHO:
Because of the shape of the sliders the engine speed (rpm's) is higher as you pull away from a stop......
At high road speeds the engine speed is lower.
The engine and road speeds across the rpm band are different than stock rollers.
Depending on the horse power available from your engine > your scooter will feel more powerful at low road speeds (since engine is turning more rpm's) and less powerful at high road speeds (since it is turning lower rpm's)
More 'grunt' down low, less 'grunt' high up.
Some believe that an engine using sliders & turning lower rpm's at highway speeds is good for the engine and mpg's. This assumes that the manufacturer got it wrong when they engineered the scooter gearing to run with the stock CVT weights....or that they came up with the 2nd best compromise across the rev band.

Sliders are different - in the minds of some riders this is good. Some mix roller weights or slider weights to get an effect they like.  I liken it to the addition of $450 sport mufflers. (louder is faster)

Some scooters that are lurching and rough at pull-away get through that period more quickly with the higher revving sliders.

Some slider users do not like the loss of power while merging at speed onto on-ramps....or overtaking on the highway. If your scoot has plenty of spare hp this is less of an issue.

The sliders on my Burgman give brisker pull-away acceleration (which I rarely employ - since I'm buying the tires) and @1,200 fewer rpm's while cruising at 65>70 mph - where I need to do little or no overtaking.
Stig
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 08:04:30 PM by Stig »
Boston Strong
Rural Ohio

And, I'm feeling a little peculiar.

Mr. Paul

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1281
    • View Profile
Re: FOR ALL THE LOVERS OF SLIDERS COMPARED TO ROLLERS
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2016, 08:04:28 PM »
The video appears to be made with a variator that has been designed for sliders. The ramp profile shows that the slider nests neatly in the lower and upper position, but the roller does not. On my People 150 I have gone back to rollers because it was obvious to me that is what the variator was designed for. The sliders did give some perceived improvement but over all I am happy with the rollers. (They are Dr. Pulley rollers.)
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 08:17:19 PM by Mr. Paul »
2009 Kymco People 150
1993 Honda Helix

TANWare

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 552
  • E3.38, RP oil Eng & FD, Dr Pulley 20x12 14 gr
    • View Profile
Re: FOR ALL THE LOVERS OF SLIDERS COMPARED TO ROLLERS
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2016, 11:27:42 PM »
@Stig; The lowered RPM at speed is why with the sliders most prefer the 14gr over the stock 15.5gr rollers. At this lower weight when full torque is applied the variator will drop the ratio more easily from the ramp. This at WOT allows the RPM range to still stay in the peak power band. Essentially while cruising the RPM's are lower but I have yet to experience a drop in high speed performance other than it does take longer for the RPM to ramp up to do a rolling acceleration.

Forbes1964

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 944
    • View Profile
Re: FOR ALL THE LOVERS OF SLIDERS COMPARED TO ROLLERS
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2016, 11:30:46 PM »
Glad to see this post. Most people who change to sliders either go with a different weight (as I did on my last scooter), and/ or change their variator. So it's difficult to see just what difference the slider itself makes. But Stig gave a pretty good comparison/contrast.

IMHO:
Because of the shape of the sliders the engine speed (rpm's) is higher as you pull away from a stop......
At high road speeds the engine speed is lower.
The engine and road speeds across the rpm band are different than stock rollers.
Depending on the horse power available from your engine > your scooter will feel more powerful at low road speeds (since engine is turning more rpm's) and less powerful at high road speeds (since it is turning lower rpm's)
More 'grunt' down low, less 'grunt' high up.
Some believe that an engine using sliders & turning lower rpm's at highway speeds is good for the engine and mpg's. This assumes that the manufacturer got it wrong when they engineered the scooter gearing to run with the stock CVT weights....or that they came up with the 2nd best compromise across the rev band.

Sliders are different - in the minds of some riders this is good. Some mix roller weights or slider weights to get an effect they like.  I liken it to the addition of $450 sport mufflers. (louder is faster)

Some scooters that are lurching and rough at pull-away get through that period more quickly with the higher revving sliders.

Some slider users do not like the loss of power while merging at speed onto on-ramps....or overtaking on the highway. If your scoot has plenty of spare hp this is less of an issue.

The sliders on my Burgman give brisker pull-away acceleration (which I rarely employ - since I'm buying the tires) and @1,200 fewer rpm's while cruising at 65>70 mph - where I need to do little or no overtaking.
Stig

Have you noticed any change plus or minus  in fuel economy when using the sliders? The mpg on my Xciting 250 increased slightly. But I do 80% highway riding. And the little 250 was revving near redline and would hit the rev limiter before the engine ran out of steam naturally. I MAY install sliders of the same weight as OE when I replace the Belt on my Majesty at 12,000 miles if they will give me a few more mpg at 65-70 mph. Otherwise, I'll stick with the OE rollers.

I find that in automobiles, the manufacturer factors in  several things when deciding on the standard axle ratio and transmission gear ratios. Economy, emissions, and performance at what they feel MOSTor their customers will use their vehicles for. Once emissions are satisfied, then the other things are factored in. It's not necessarily a matter of them getting it right or wrong. But the best compromise. However, they sometimes offer a choice. For example. The Mercury Grand Marquis was offered with a choice of two rear axle ratios. The 2.73 was most common , gave acceptable acceleration, and the best fuel economy. But the 3.27 gave better acceleration and was better if a person towed or road with a full load. But the fuel economy was slightly worse. I guess that's what the scooter manufacturers did as well.
2009 Xciting 250

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function split()