Author Topic: Battery charging advice, please!  (Read 6485 times)

Shaka

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Re: Battery charging advice, please!
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2010, 11:14:59 PM »
It seems to work just fine.  It is what the "battery specialist" recommended when I bought a new sealed battery.  I've left it plugged in for extended periods (24-48hrs) accidentally with no ill effects. 

Calothrix

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Re: Battery charging advice, please!
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2010, 01:20:34 AM »
Have had good luck with my 1 amp charger also.

zombie

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Re: Battery charging advice, please!
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2010, 01:26:11 AM »
I think joeboys point is for long term charging. Electronics due have some pretty strict rules. Like NEVER jump start off an automotive battery. Just connecting can take out your cdi before you can say c...
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

joeboy

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Re: Battery charging advice, please!
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2010, 12:33:31 AM »
I think joeboys point is for long term charging. Electronics due have some pretty strict rules. Like NEVER jump start off an automotive battery. Just connecting can take out your cdi before you can say c...

Rule of thumb is the rated amps of the battery dived by 12 for a boost charge and divided by 20 for a trickle charge.. I didnt make the rules i am just telling you the facts about batteries.  :)

How you use these facts is upto you.

http://www.motorcycle.co.uk/Articles/Maintenance/Battery-Care-Guide.aspx

http://www.dansmc.com/batteries.htm
« Last Edit: April 02, 2010, 12:40:57 AM by joeboy »

Shaka

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Re: Battery charging advice, please!
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2010, 02:06:32 AM »
The instructions for my XTREME PERMASEAL battery state, "Charge the battery once a month during storage or as needed using automatic charger with output in amps that is not more than 30% of the amp-hour capacity of the battery."

The battery is rated at 4Ah
30% of 4Ah = 1.2Ah

I've never seen a battery charger that ranges from between 1/3Ah & 1/5Ah, which it would be using the 12 & 20 method!


Shaka

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Re: Battery charging advice, please!
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2010, 04:14:12 AM »
Only one of those chargers really even falls into the category you are talking about with 1/20th of 4 amps, or 200mA.  Both those articles you refer to, call for a, "1 Amp or smaller trickle charger.".  This is exactly what I'm using!  I don't really see where your argument comes from?  I believe they are more referring to the danger of hooking up a standard car battery charger to a motorcycle battery.  Where the car chargers can run 10Ah.  Like I said. the instructions for the batteries I use on all my scooters clearly states 30% of rated Amps.  Which is 1.2Ah, where I'm actually still well within the manufacturers recommendations for charging with a 1Ah charger!

joeboy

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Re: Battery charging advice, please!
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2010, 01:11:45 PM »
200ma is the correct current for a trickle charge of a 4ah battery, the other 2 chargers are good for a short boost charge.

I myself would not want to charge a 4ah battery with 1amp for more than 10 minutes.

To be honest i dont really care what other people do I just add my input to try and help if they choose not to use the information and things go wrong then thats their look out.

I supplied the links to the chargers that have the current range you said you have never seen, now you have.

Also did you abserve the size of the battery he was charging, even that was maxed out by a 2amp charger as he said. Of course people are entitled to there opinion even if it is wrong.

« Last Edit: April 02, 2010, 07:18:31 PM by joeboy »

joeboy

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Re: Battery charging advice, please!
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2010, 07:32:51 PM »
Charging Batteries and Battery Chargers

Battery chargers are usually very simple things. The average manual charger is just a beefy transformer, a few large diodes and not much else. They often have less than wonderful internal connections and always benefit from a case removal, some soldering of the crimped connections and maybe some extra heavy wire. They usually have a circuit breaker somewhere and may have an alleged amp meter which imagines it can read current, more or less, approximately, somewhat related to reality. They produce pulsed DC with no filtering at about 15 volts. Some have a "fast charge" setting that really abuses the battery with even higher voltages. They are designed for very occasional use, expecting the battery to be routinely charged by a car's regulated charging circuit, not to be the only source of recharge for a battery.

Such simple chargers are good for pounding on batteries. They will easily overcharge batteries of the lead/acid type they are designed to work with. This causes electrolysis and gassing which damages the battery and makes an explosive gas (hydrogen).

There are some "automatic" chargers available at places like Sears for just a bit more than the equivalent manual ones. They are well worth the extra price when your primary use for the battery is portable or emergency power and a lot of recharging will be done off this charger. They are highly recommended over the manual versions.

The best battery charger is a power supply that can be current and voltage regulated. There are some super fancy automatic ones that incorporate these features. Based on the chemistry of a battery, there is a MAGIC voltage where it can be left connected and it will not overcharge, and its internal leakage will be compensated for, keeping the battery fully charged all the time. This is called trickle charged or "floated", but most so called trickle chargers are junk, not voltage regulated and really just slowly boil away the electrolyte with electrolysis, making certain it will be a "late" battery when you actually need it.

To properly charge a battery, you should apply a voltage that causes current to flow (being careful to get the plus and minus hooked up properly!) at about 1/10th the amp/hour rating of the battery to a maximum of about 1/4th the amp hour rating of the battery.

For instance, for a 45 amp/hour battery you should not charge much faster than 5 amps. For a 12 amp/hour motorcycle battery you should not charge faster than about 1.5 amps, etc.

When the voltage required to maintain this charge rate exceeds 14 volts, you should turn it down and regulate it at 13.8 volts. Just let the charge rate drop naturally while the voltage is held constant at the battery terminals.

Eventually the current into the battery will drop to practically nothing at 13.8 volts if it is lead/acid. Different chemistries will have different magic voltages. This is what is called "float" charging a battery. Maintaining it at a voltage which just balances the electrochemical potential of a fully charged series of cells, just below where they will start to perform electrolysis on the battery solution. If done correctly such a float can go on for a very long time and the battery will stay healthy, just compensating for the internal discharge rate of the battery.



http://www.chem.hawaii.edu/uham/bat.html

I do not feel i need to comment any further on this, if you want to mess up your battery, go ahead.

garibaldi

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Re: Battery charging advice, please!
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2010, 05:40:10 AM »
google for "desulfator". You should be able to buy one on ebay for $30-50. My scooter battery wasn't holding a charge when i got it. After a month sitting on a 1amp "smart charger" and the desulfator together, it held its charge in storage for the past 3 months of winter. I had it on my car for a while too, and that battery was purchased in 2006, and still kicking good. Every scooter should have one attached.

zombie

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Re: Battery charging advice, please!
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2010, 07:08:31 PM »
Thank you for the help, and advice joeboy. I did bench work on electronics for several years, and I completely agree w/ the facts you posted. Many of us have been luckily "pounding" our batteries for years. I myself believe if it is a problem maintaining/charging your present battery... Get a new one. If you can afford to... get a better one.
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

joeboy

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Re: Battery charging advice, please!
« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2010, 11:40:32 PM »
I have a desulphator i made it from a kit thats for sale over here in the uk...I am about to try it on a few batteries I have that are a bit flakey to say the least..
If it fixes just one of them then its payed for itself.  :)

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