Author Topic: Ticking is not my valves.  (Read 2725 times)

Hoolander2

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Ticking is not my valves.
« on: April 08, 2010, 02:47:47 AM »
At least, I don't think it is.  Pulled off the 500's valve cover today expecting to find large gaps on my valves but they all seem just fine.  Hmm.  Now I admit I didn't line up the T mark but I turned engine till the lobes of the cams were pointing opposite the rocker arms and checked gaps.  All seemed close to right on.  1 millimeter give or take .025mm or so. 

The tapping I'm hearing sounds a lot like valve tap, though.  Sounds like somebody tapping inside the cover or head with a teeny tiny hammer.  Much more hearable with the floorboard off. 

What does anybody think it could be?  Is it some normal noise that all these engines make that I shouldn't worry about? 

By the way, getting the valve cover off was just about impossible due to closeness of the frame members!   I put it back without sealer of any kind and so far no leakage in 20 miles of riding. 

zombie

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Re: Ticking is not my valves.
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2010, 02:54:45 AM »
What does the manual suggest for the valve lash? The only other possibility in the head itself would be the cam bearings/races. If there is play there it will show up as a tick each time pressure is applied from the valve!
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Hoolander2

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Re: Ticking is not my valves.
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2010, 03:14:08 AM »
Manual says 1mm for the valve lash.  Well, sheesh, I don't know what to think.  Guess I'll keep on riding it like this and see if it gets worse. 

Have only had it for 2 months, you know. About 5000 miles on it total.  And I wasn't familiar with it's noises and so on but became aware of this noise gradually, though it could've been doing it all the time. 

On a cooler note, I hooked up the orange undercarriage lighting and looks pretty cool.  Will have to take a pic and post. 

zombie

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Re: Ticking is not my valves.
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2010, 07:14:15 PM »
One more thing to suggest. Most auto parts stores sell a stethascope looking tool that has a thin metal tube you can place on suspect areas to try to isolate where it is coming from. Maybe in the cvt/rollers?
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

Hoolander2

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Re: Ticking is not my valves.
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2010, 04:52:40 AM »
Let me run this by you guys as well.  When I was checking the valve gaps, I noticed the cam lobe had an area after the highest part of the lobe which was not shiny.  That is, it was obvious the rocker was not ever touching it there.  About a half inch long area part ways down the back side of the lobe for the exaust valves.  The area in question starts and stops symetrically and smoothly.  Is that normal? 

Didn't get a look at the intake lobe as lighting was poor. 

Still ticking and it bugs me.  Though it may well be something normal.   
« Last Edit: April 13, 2010, 05:31:52 AM by Hoolander2 »

wordslinger

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Re: Ticking is not my valves.
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2010, 01:33:47 PM »
...wow, i'm going to have to look at mine now, but i don't think that would be normal..

..sounds like a sticky valve stem, or a weak or broken spring...

..if the arm is coming off the lobe, then striking it, i'd bet that's your ticking...
..every mod (action) necessitates a (reaction) mod..

zombie

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Re: Ticking is not my valves.
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2010, 03:02:47 PM »
I agree w/ slinger. There may be a bent valve stem, weak or broken spring, worn cam, or bent/miss cast rocker arm. If the valve is catching air in the the cycle, it will most certainly tick when it re connects w/ the lobe. I can think of 2 ways to verify w/out major surgery. One would be to use some 1200 grit emory cloth to remove the shine on both lobes. Just remove the shine. then run for a few km, and see if it is polished back up, or using a timing light w/ variable timing to "freeze" the action. Does the sound amplify w/ rpm's? if so I bet you found it! The first method may seem a little drastic but I have cleaned many a rusted old cam for re use using emory cloth w/ no ill effects. On every high performance engine I have ever assembled there is no free time for the valves except for tdc. If there is then a stiffer set of springs gets installed. Now to qualify all this the Kymco engine is a compromise by design. It's the best it can be for the $'s charged. The springs may be marginal to begin with to save wear on the cam/bearings. I always try to get my info from the horses mouth vs the other end, so perhaps a phone call to kymco usa tech support could help. This just may be normal for the engine, although I would not believe so.
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

Hoolander2

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Re: Ticking is not my valves.
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2010, 03:02:35 AM »
Thanks to you both for that input.  Cause I'd like to kinda zero in on it when I take the valve cover off again.  It's such a supreme pain to get off.  Bolts come out easy but then have to take it off center stand and rock whole bike while trying to drag and beat the valve cover up through frame!  Squeaking the gasket past all sorts of obstacles in the head all the way.  They really couldn't have made it harder!

Gonna file some on that cover before putting it back on next time. 

Been thinking hard why that lobe would look like that myself and thought of the nasty things you guys mentioned.  >:(  Well, maybe the guy before me put in a performance cam! Ha! Will try to get in touch with him.  I must say the bike feels very powerful for what it is.

What do you think the chances are of using the rope down the spark plug hole trick in order to take off the valve springs for checking without pulling the head? 


zombie

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Re: Ticking is not my valves.
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2010, 05:02:23 AM »
I have done that and bent weak or burnt valves. A thinner rope is better than a thicker one tho! Also it may help w/ the valve cover if you wrap one of those cinch straps thru  the wheel and over the seat frame. You can keep the suspension collapsed while on the center stand.
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

Hoolander2

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Re: Ticking is not my valves.
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2010, 03:15:11 AM »
That's a great idea about cinch strap, Zombie.  THANK YOU!

zombie

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Re: Ticking is not my valves.
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2010, 06:15:44 AM »
Boo Hoo My Bro! I'm Crying for you all. It's easier to see from here than there!
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

Hoolander2

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Re: Ticking is not my valves.
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2010, 03:12:21 AM »
Dear Zombie!  I used the cinch strap idea you thought of and it worked like a charm.   :)  Took a while to figure where and how to wrap the strap but once I did, the valve cover came right up and through with barely any problem at all.   REALLY happy about that. 

I checked gaps again more carefully this time and one intake seems to be twice the desired gap.  2mm instead of 1mm.  I don't have the silly special wrench to adjust with, nor do I happen to currently have a 9mm wrench to loosen adjuster nut so put it back together and will ride it while I shop for those tools. 

The reason I was working on it was to put the new water pump on which is now complete.  Tomorrow I'll flush system with lots of distilled water and refill with new anti-freeze. 

zombie

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Re: Ticking is not my valves.
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2010, 04:52:16 AM »
Progress is always good, and you're heading in the right direction.
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

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