USA to require ABS on motorcycles

[Forbes1964]

What's the rationale in forcing a phase out of carburetors?

Why would you ever require linked brakes?

What does learner legal mean?

I don’t believe they actually forced out carburetors. But they set emissions standards. And it was simply impossible or very difficult to meet those standards using a carburetor , especially if they want to have good performance AND low emissions.


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[Stig / Major Tom]

Those that love to tinker love carbs. Fair enough.
But I've been loving every iteration of fuel injection since I went from my new '73 Super Beetle to my new Rabbit 41 years ago! (VW sold the engines to Chrysler to get them in the small hatch back business quickly - but theirs were carbed)
EFI is a deal-breaker selling point for me in a scooter.....now I've added aircooling. Without both- I'm walking.
Stig

[hypophthalmus]

Do carburetors produce more non-CO2 emissions? I tried to google the matter, but had trouble finding anything relevant.

[Forbes1964]

Those that love to tinker love carbs. Fair enough.
But I've been loving every iteration of fuel injection since I went from my new '73 Super Beetle to my new Rabbit 41 years ago! (VW sold the engines to Chrysler to get them in the small hatch back business quickly - but theirs were carbed)
EFI is a deal-breaker selling point for me in a scooter.....now I've added aircooling. Without both- I'm walking.
Stig

People always resist change until the change becomes commonplace. (I notice that no one on here is lamenting the absence of points. [emoji28]) Then they wonder how they did without it. I remember back in the late 70’s People would convert their electronic ignition vehicles to points. By the late 80’s , people were converting their old points equipped cars to electronic ignition.
Likewise, I remember my dad (born in 1928 ) hating fuel injection. But by the early to mid 1990’s he commented “I don’t even want to LOOK at a carburetor”  because they were temperamental whereas fuel injection was reliable and was actually easier to repair once you learned how it worked  . Of course he was proud of the fact that he KNEW how to fix a carburetor. Likewise, I like the fact that I CAN replace points, adjust a carburetor, set timing, etc. But that’s just as a novelty and a every once in a while thing. In truth, I prefer driving something that cranks the FIRST time every time, and works well without constant tinkering.  Having said all that, the average fuel injected scooter or car runs MANY reliable miles without tampering. As far as the engine goes, Just use clean fuel , change the filters, change the oil , adjust the valves (scooters) and ride out.


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[Viper254]

Carburetors are most likely an emissions issue. 

Requiring linked brakes shows that the Eurocrats are suffering from industrial strength stupidity and know nothing about motorcycles/scooters.

Learner legal has to do with tiered licensing.

This is essentially correct. Linked brakes means that applying the front brake also applies 1/2 force on the rear. Or is it vice versa? Whatever it is, it's bizarre.

In the EU you can ride something up to 125cc on a provisional license, as a learner.

Fuel injection on bikes has been wonderful. Now even the crummiest bikes have Delphi or Bosch fuel injection instead of some random brand carburettor. I am a big fan. Our emissions laws are really, really stringent. It does tend to cajole the manufacturers to chase progress, so I think I'm a fan.

[klaviator]

This is essentially correct. Linked brakes means that applying the front brake also applies 1/2 force on the rear. Or is it vice versa? Whatever it is, it's bizarre.

In most cases linked brakes means applying rear brake also gives you some front brake.  How much front brake?  It varies.  Good luck trying to figure it out.  On some bikes (BMW, DUCATI), it's reversed and applying front brakes gives you some rear brake.  Some older Hondas had systems where the brakes were linked both ways.  On Harley's linked brakes they are not linked if you apply the Brakes below 25 MPH.  Some manufacturers call it linked brakes, some call it combined braking systems .  I'll bet most owners of bikes with linked brakes don't understand how they work. 

For riders who don't understand how to use their brakes properly, linked brakes will probably help them in most circumstances.  For riders who do, most linked systems suck. 

[CROSSBOLT]

Trying to 'idiot proof' everything just keeps people in government busy and has little to do with safety. Manufacturers 'going along' with proposed rule-making are just sucking up to the bureaucracy and it's denizens. Like interconnected controls in Pipers and the 'spin-proof' Ercoupe trained people out of coordinated flight and removed the benefits of cross-controlling to advantage.

[Viper254]

Anyway, I feel we've put the imposition of ABS onto you into perspective

[Forbes1964]

Trying to 'idiot proof' everything just keeps people in government busy and has little to do with safety.

In some cases it may be unnecessary “idiot proofing” . But in other cases, it’s making things more tolerant of human error which Even the best of us are capable of at times. In cars for example, I remember when even a minor head on collision was guaranteed to result in serious injury or death for the driver due to being impaled by the steering column. But cars are now required to have collapsible steering columns which greatly reduced those deaths. I’m and thousands of others are thankful for that government intrusion.  The  idiot may be the one who crossed into my lane. Or it could be me. Again we don’t realize we need some things until we need them.  Just another perspective...


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[CROSSBOLT]

You make very good, valid points, Forbes, as always. The element in the GM collapsible steering column was used in helo seats in Vietnam to minimize back injuries in "hard landings" usually associated with crashes...I welcome ABS for road bikes, front only or both wheels. I DO NOT want the brakes interconnected in any way. I don't even like the lights coming on when the ignition gets turned on. I really HATE the GM daylight running light system. I love inertia shoulder belts. They can be tested to make sure they work by yanking on 'em! Those belts that are always loose that only lockup when you slam on brakes suck.

[Forbes1964]

You make very good, valid points, Forbes, as always. The element in the GM collapsible steering column was used in helo seats in Vietnam to minimize back injuries in "hard landings" usually associated with crashes...I welcome ABS for road bikes, front only or both wheels. I DO NOT want the brakes interconnected in any way. I don't even like the lights coming on when the ignition gets turned on. I really HATE the GM daylight running light system. I love inertia shoulder belts. They can be tested to make sure they work by yanking on 'em! Those belts that are always loose that only lockup when you slam on brakes suck.

I’m with you on the linked brakes. My driveway is hilly and clay/gravel. And I remember being super nervous and being careful to not hit the back brakes hard enough to engage the fronts. At low speeds I didn’t mind the back doing their thing because I could react quickly enough. But if the front did ANYTHING strange, it was another thing. But in cases where strong front braking was needed. I had no problem engaging them. As for running lights, I actually used our Ford diagnostic computer to turn mine and my sister’s on because they Weren’t set that way from the factory for USA cars. But I confess. It was to make them “idiot proof” just in case I forgot to turn them on in fog so I could be seen . Even we so called conscientious drivers can be idiots in some areas. I simply wish they could be disabled by the driver temporarily even if they default to on like  the traction or stability control in many cars. I like being able to do donuts in an empty parking lot . Lol.  But I also like the safety of being able to safely swerve around the idiot who decided stop in the road on a blind curve.


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[randyo]

ABS has not been mandated in the US. At this time, it's only a recommendation by the NHTSA Council.  The recommendation may get trumped, so to speak

[Forbes1964]

ABS has not been mandated in the US. At this time, it's only a recommendation by the NHTSA Council.  The recommendation may get trumped, so to speak

For the good or for the bad, I don’t think we’ll be getting any new regulations anytime soon. Lol.


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[Forbes1964]

Do carburetors produce more non-CO2 emissions? I tried to google the matter, but had trouble finding anything relevant.

A carbureted engine produces more of nearly EVERY pollutant than the same engine with fuel injection. To make it emissions compliant usually decreases power AND drivability significantly. Much more than it does in a fuel injected engine. As evidence, one only has to recall how temperamental and low on power cars were from the seventies until the widespread adoption of fuel injection in the late 1980s. With small engines such as scooters, with FEW exceptions the improvement in drivability,  performance (especially cold weather), and even reliability, has been just as dramatic.


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