Kymco Noodoe navigation testing

[rjs987]

Decided to do some more testing of Noodoe navigation on my ride I am planned a few days ago. I made a few more changes to the settings that I think were causing issues for me before. When I last used Noodoe navigation I had it set to shortest route and to avoid highways. That last bit may have been my problem since I was constantly being routed to gravel roads that branched off of the highway I was on. With Google Maps and also Garmin units avoiding highways means to avoid Interstate or big fast highways which is what I usually do, but if I happen to end up on one of those the system automatically follows that road until the next logical economical exit. Maybe by turning off the avoid highways and setting navigation for fastest route it will work better for me.

I did find a limitation I didn't know about before. There are only 8 way points allowed in a single route!

The last few years I've been using my cell phone and Google Maps for navigation. Google Maps Navigate allows only 10 stop points. This really has not been a big issue to me since I can plan a route with 10 or fewer stop points from start to lunch and then another route from lunch to destination so the limited number of stop points was handled. The one issue I have with Google Maps Navigate is that when each stop point is reached navigation stops until you specifically tap on the continue button. That is really the only issue I have using Google Maps... Well, that and the issue with rain drops running down my screen acting like random finger presses all over the screen making the phone go crazy. My phone has the same water resistance rating as the current dedicated GPS units, IP68, so having my phone out in the rain is not an issue. In fact one time I had my phone in my pocket when I took the grandkids swimming and didn't remember until a half hour later. It was only at most 2 ft under water some of that time. But no issues with the phone after that. It still was working fine even when wet so I just set it on the lounge chair to let it dry in the sun. It's just those darn drops running down the screen.

So because of those two issues with Google Maps I was looking forward to Noodoe navigation. I am still working out about possibly doing like I did with Google Maps Navigate... making multiple routes that I can run one after the other. Will see how that works or if it will.

There are 2 ways to set a route in Noodoe. One is to set a route to be followed right away on the Navigation page. Another way is to create a journey on the Journeys page. I can only create one immediate route, but I can create multiple journeys. The trick will be how to turn on each journey on the fly or if, like when using Google Maps Navigate, I have to stop to select the next journey to follow. I think it is the latter. But since that's what I do anyway with Google Maps Navigate (when I stop for lunch) I don't see that as any kind of show stopper.

There is another limitation that I found out about in previous times I used Noodoe navigation. If Noodoe routing thinks I'm on the wrong track it will attempt to take me back to the right track but only does that for a limited number of times or limited distance from Noodoe's intended track. This is evident especially when Noodoe wanted me to avoid the Interstate but when I did get on the Interstate Noodoe navigation almost immediately stopped and gave me the message that it could no longer route me to my intended destination. It gave up. Google Maps Navigate at least would recalculate and take me along that Interstate to the next logical exit to put me back on the fastest or shortest route to my next way point and keep on working for me. But this may have something to do with the setting to avoid highways. One of the settings I turned off for this time around.

[rjs987]

Another ride today using Noodoe navigation just to continue getting acquainted with it.

There are 2 ways to plot a route.
1. From the first Scooter page I can tap on Navigation and then New Route to create one route to be followed the next time I turn on the AK. This is limited to setting just that one route that is plotted right then. If I tap to create another route on this page it will replace the previously created route. No created routes on this page are saved as Journeys and they only remain there until a new route is created or a different Journey is selected and then they are lost.

2. From the second Journeys page I can tap the "+" at the top of that page to create a new Journey. I can give a Journey a name and a description and it is saved on my rider account page under the Journeys sub-page. Journeys that are created are saved there until I delete them. I can publish Journeys to the Noodoe cloud to be seen by any other Noodoe member. I can create multiple Journeys in my account page and select them as needed or desired. This is most like when I create a route using Google Maps and save the route as a link on my phone home page so this method is most likely what I'll be using for trips. The only limitation that is more than using Google Maps at this time is the number of waypoints.

The procedure to create a route is the same with both as far as selecting a starting point and subsequent waypoints up to 8 total waypoints in a route. Waypoints are added using the map by zooming in and doing a long press on the road. The nearest valid point is indicated and then can be added to the route, usually a place but sometimes just a section of road if there are no buildings or points of interest right there. I found when in the city choosing a bus stop point works best but also businesses that are right on the street. In the country sections or road can be selected. Pictures can be added to any route if desired though I have no need for that at this time and I don't save GPS info with my photos usually. I can also skip plotting the point where I am currently or where I end a previous route since navigation will automatically route me to the first plotted point in a route anyway. So that is one way to gain an extra waypoint, plus it allows a route to be started without actually being AT the first point as long as I am not past the next waypoint. I found out with my initial use that Noodoe navigation will refuse to move on if I don't hit that very first start point. It just keeps trying to route me back to that point until I stop navigation and edit the route or specifically go back to the starting point. That was the reason for a lot of frustration the first times I was using Noodoe navigation until I figured out what it was trying to do. Noodoe navigation is VERY stubborn about hitting the plotted waypoints in the order plotted without exception.

I am used to plotting a route with few waypoints and creating more than one route. It's not an issue to me as long as I plan on the end point of one route to be someplace I would stop anyway so it doesn't interrupt my trip. Lunch stops are good places to end one route and begin the next.

On this last ride I took today I intentionally passed by the side street to the plotted destination point, my home, to continue on to the grocery store 2 miles away. If I had passed that plotted end point navigation would have ended even though I continued to ride on. So I came within a few blocks of my home but headed straight on to the store. Noodoe navigation did continue to tell me to do a U-Turn at every opportunity or take a different side street that would turn me around but I wanted to see how it worked if I only stopped at the store, turned off the bike, then turned on the bike again when I was done shopping. Noodoe navigation did come back on when I turned on the bike after shopping taking up where it left off and telling me the route to continue on to the end point of the planned route just like I was hoping it would.

All this testing and figuring out what it does and doesn't do and why and how is so I might not need to add a phone mount on this scooter if it is not really needed. The ONLY reason I would need my phone mounted where I can see it is for navigation.

[rjs987]

Just spent a little time plotting a route to my annual June moto/camping trip using the Journey option so it can be saved and held for future use. I wanted to see what Noodoe calculated for the roads going there and how many waypoints are needed to ensure the route follows the roads I prefer riding to get there. Turns out with the settings I currently have in Noodoe navigation that I don't need more than one route using only 6 waypoints! In fact, I'm not certain I would even need 6 waypoints but I'll keep what I plotted to ensure navigation doesn't run me off somewhere. It's a 281 mile trip one way. The route followed the preferred roads... at least as far as how it plotted out on the screen. There are only a few good routes to get there so I know the way very well now after attending this event all but one year out of the last 11 years. This was really good to see. I'll keep this Journey in the queue to use in June.

When I plotted this same route using Google Maps I usually made 2 routes due to the way Google Maps wasn't able to continue from where I stopped unless I kept the navigation running while I was stopped. So I would plot one route to the lunch stop about half way and a second route from there to the campgrounds. But the Noodoe navigation system seems to do well at remembering where I stopped and picks up from there to continue the routing even after shutting off the bike and closing the Noodoe app on my phone and even turning off BT while stopped and turning it back on when ready to continue.

There is one setting I'm not decided on keeping turned on or off. It's called "Speed Camera" and shows the speed at the bottom center of the navigation screen on the dash. I have had it turned off after my first trip from the dealer and have forgotten if it shows the known speed limit or my current speed. Showing my current speed would be redundant since I can see that just to the right of the Noodoe screen. Showing the known speed limit would be so much better. If I had that option turned off the current street or road is displayed there. Sometimes I'm thinking that would be better to see.

[rjs987]

I did find out on my ride today that the setting for Speed Camera is indeed the posted speed limit, if it is known, and not my current running speed. So I will leave that setting turned on for now. I always did like having that show up on Google Maps navigation. Sometimes I'll get on a road and miss seeing the sign for it and if the navigation system is aware what the speed limit is I want to know it. Didn't say anything about actually doing the speed limit but it's good to know what it is just the same.

[rjs987]

I am planning to attend a moto camping event near Paris Landing SP in Tennessee in May. With the weather keeping me indoors most of the time I decided to plot a Journey from my home to the first stop, an Army Corps of Engineer campground in Carlyle, IL and then plot a second Journey from there to the campground near the SP. All using Noodoe navigation. I plotted 2 Journeys since one is for the first day and the other for the second day of travel.

The first Journey plotted exactly as I expected with no issues and the plot of the route when I zoom in or out tracks just where I wanted it to. I only really needed 5 waypoints for this one but I added a few more to plot where my gas stops and lunch stop would be. Easier riding when I know how far to those stops and Noodoe navigation will tell me that if I set the waypoint for it.

The second Journey only needed 2 points, the starting point at the overnight campground and the final destination. But here is where I had a slight problem, easily fixed. When I set the 2 waypoints for this second Journey Noodoe mapping allowed me to do so without any issue. But when I tried to show the track I got the message that the "scooter is unable to access waypoint 2" which was the final waypoint in Tennessee. That was a puzzle. So I changed the waypoint to a business nearby and got the same message when I tried to show the track. Then I added another waypoint in between those 2 that was somewhere along the intended route in Kentucky since I was going to be passing through western KY. I again got the same error message only it still said my scooter cannot access waypoint "2" which was now the KY waypoint and then didn't bother to tell me about any other waypoint further along the route.

So I was thinking maybe there was something in the Navigation Info settings that I needed to change. I don't know why I thought that since nothing there should keep me from navigating to any waypoint. But when I went into the Navigation Info settings I just happened to look at the list of States I had downloaded into Noodoe. I had Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Missouri, Illinois, Indiana all downloaded but not Kentucky and Tennessee or other states west or south of there. Then a light lit up in my mind. Doh! I have to have the area where I want to travel downloaded to be able to travel there. So I downloaded the missing States and a few more while I was there.

Then I returned to the Journey I had saved for the second day of travel and there was no message and the track of my route showed up just as I was expecting.

Moral of the story. Just need to make sure all the States (areas) where I want to travel are downloaded to Noodoe Navigation Info settings and all will work out.

[CROSSBOLT]

I am planning to attend a moto camping event near Paris Landing SP in Tennessee in May. With the weather keeping me indoors most of the time I decided to plot a Journey from my home to the first stop, an Army Corps of Engineer campground in Carlyle, IL and then plot a second Journey from there to the campground near the SP. All using Noodoe navigation. I plotted 2 Journeys since one is for the first day and the other for the second day of travel.

The first Journey plotted exactly as I expected with no issues and the plot of the route when I zoom in or out tracks just where I wanted it to. I only really needed 5 waypoints for this one but I added a few more to plot where my gas stops and lunch stop would be. Easier riding when I know how far to those stops and Noodoe navigation will tell me that if I set the waypoint for it.

The second Journey only needed 2 points, the starting point at the overnight campground and the final destination. But here is where I had a slight problem, easily fixed. When I set the 2 waypoints for this second Journey Noodoe mapping allowed me to do so without any issue. But when I tried to show the track I got the message that the "scooter is unable to access waypoint 2" which was the final waypoint in Tennessee. That was a puzzle. So I changed the waypoint to a business nearby and got the same message when I tried to show the track. Then I added another waypoint in between those 2 that was somewhere along the intended route in Kentucky since I was going to be passing through western KY. I again got the same error message only it still said my scooter cannot access waypoint "2" which was now the KY waypoint and then didn't bother to tell me about any other waypoint further along the route.

So I was thinking maybe there was something in the Navigation Info settings that I needed to change. I don't know why I thought that since nothing there should keep me from navigating to any waypoint. But when I went into the Navigation Info settings I just happened to look at the list of States I had downloaded into Noodoe. I had Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Missouri, Illinois, Indiana all downloaded but not Kentucky and Tennessee or other states west or south of there. Then a light lit up in my mind. Doh! I have to have the area where I want to travel downloaded to be able to travel there. So I downloaded the missing States and a few more while I was there.

Then I returned to the Journey I had saved for the second day of travel and there was no message and the track of my route showed up just as I was expecting.

Moral of the story. Just need to make sure all the States (areas) where I want to travel are downloaded to Noodoe Navigation Info settings and all will work out.

Sounds like the noodoe is severely limited in NAV capability. Being a curmudgeon, I have totally rejected GPS from car manufacturers because most of them have cumbersome, nearly impossible update capability if any at all. Most dealer shops are severely behind in being able to assist customers in this type of trouble. I have used the GPS units from Garmin, Lowrance and Rand-McNally which can be updated easily. For the scoot a little Etrex unit which has a screen that is perfectly clear in direct sunlight.

I really admire your efforts with the noodoe feature! You have become the "go to guy" for this feature!

[rjs987]

Sounds like the noodoe is severely limited in NAV capability. Being a curmudgeon, I have totally rejected GPS from car manufacturers because most of them have cumbersome, nearly impossible update capability if any at all. Most dealer shops are severely behind in being able to assist customers in this type of trouble. I have used the GPS units from Garmin, Lowrance and Rand-McNally which can be updated easily. For the scoot a little Etrex unit which has a screen that is perfectly clear in direct sunlight.

I really admire your efforts with the noodoe feature! You have become the "go to guy" for this feature!

It is slightly limited compared with dedicated units like Garmin or TomTom. I used to have a Garmin unit but updating became a major issue with it. That's because I don't have a MS Windows computer at home. No Apple products either. I only use a Chromebook and that is plenty for everything I need to do with a computer. My first Garmin unit didn't even allow updates with a MAC computer until only about 10-12 years ago I think. That was back in 2004-2009. My second Garmin GPS was much better but Garmin refused to support updates on Linux or Chromebook systems. I suppose my choice of computer system may seem strange since my career was in personal computers and business computer server systems using primarily MS Windows as well as MAC and Linux operating systems. But that is precisely why I don't use those today. Costs too much and have no need for what they can do. I have simplified my needs for what I do on a computer. When I downsized to a Chromebook the updates for my Garmin GPS was the ONLY think I needed but could not do. That's when I figured out how to use Google Maps for my GPS instead. Always up to date with just one real issue that needs to change to make it better.

My navigation needs have also simplified. Some riders just have to have all the fancy features in a Garmin or other dedicated GPS and are willing to pay for them. That's fine. I found many years ago that Google Maps provided all that I needed and even a little more for my navigation usage. Google Maps, however, has yet to change their "stop points" programming to auto continue and that has always bugged me. Noodoe navigation seems to work well for me once I figured out some of the quirks that stump other users and incorporates actual "waypoints" in its routing. So I no longer need to stop at a "stop point" and tap "continue" on my phone. Noodoe tells me how far to the next waypoint and also when I pass it and just continues navigating just like my older Garmin did. Noodoe has a "Radar" dashboard screen that can be customized that shows in, well, a radar type display with range marks for things like gas stations and restaurants and such. It would be nice if they can add a few more categories of things to show on the radar. Maybe in a future update. Oh, and Noodoe on the bike will update automatically from any updates downloaded to the phone app. Mine has updated a few times since I've owned it. Regular updates are a good thing.

I know that now I can buy a Garmin GPS that will update via WiFi so a computer is not needed. But for me that still brings the cost for the device itself which I would rather put toward gas for riding if possible. 

As I continue to use this feature of my Kymco scooter I'll continue to update this space with new information to assist anyone else who want's to use it.

[rjs987]

Oh, forgot to mention in my last post that even with the Garmin GPS units you need to be sure to have the map areas where you want to travel and plot routes downloaded to the device or there will be no navigation, or very minimal and basic navigation, in those areas that you don't have installed to the device.

[rjs987]

Noodoe support link:
https://sites.google.com/view/kymconoodoe15-en/home

I emailed from this Kymco Noodoe Support link yesterday and received a reply back last night. I had a few questions about Noodoe and what happens after the initial free 3 years is up. When you first set up your Noodoe account you get to select one country for free to get the map service for 3 years. The map service includes updates that happen from time to time just like with Garmin map updates. You can select more countries but you have to pay for them. Since the app is free and Noodoe is already on the bike when you buy it the only cost for navigation is continuing or adding country map service if you go beyond the initial free country and/or want more countries added.

I forgot to look within the Noodoe phone app in the Map Store to see what prices would be to renew my map service for the map service after the initial 3 years. They reminded me to look there (Noodoe app > Settings > Navigation Info > Map Store). My initial free (for 3 years) selected country is the USA(maps) which does not show a price at this time since that one if free to me until end of 2024. That one should show a price when it is time to renew the map service. All other countries individually listed are shown to cost $17.99. I noted that Europe(maps) cost $35.99. Those are current prices and it remains to be seen what the price will be in 2024 for me (I can estimate close to the cost for all of the Europe(maps) set). Currently those prices are really not bad for the service. I can easily spend way more on a Garmin GPS device even including the free lifetime map updates included with a Garmin unit. Keep in mind that most riders I know only keep their Garmin devices for 3 years and then buy a new one so that factors into the Garmin being more expensive. Some do keep their Garmin units for a lot longer but it is very rare to keep a Garmin unit for 10 or more years and be able to still update maps simply due to the internal memory of those devices. BTDT.

Here is that initial email and reply:

Robert Shwery > Aug 15, 2022, 11:59 AM (23 hours ago)
to noodoe_support

Hello,
I have a 2022 AK 550 USA version.
What are the current charges for the Noodoe Map Service renewal?
Are there other Noodoe services that are limited and need to be renewed for a charge such as access to the clock, radar, weather, or any other screen or service other than the map service?

Thanks.

-
Robert Shwery
sent from my online gmail

-----

kynd support <support_kynd@ionexenergy.com > Aug 15, 2022, 9:41 PM (13 hours ago)
to me, Support

Dear Customer, Thank you for contacting us, KYMCO Noodoe map is a paid item, only it is downloaded for free when the customer who paired the scooter and downloaded the map for the first time.
If you don't want to update the map with a new purchase(need to pay), you could just select skip and you can use the original map, but it won't be updated regularly in the future.
Please note the map could be used for 3 years, if you wouldn't like to update with a new purchase(need to pay), the map can be used but it won't update in the future.

Please refer to the Map Agreement on KYMCO website: Agreement

If you still have questions, please provide us with a screenshot, photo or video about your question that we could analyze the issue. Thank you.

Best Regards,
KYMCO Noodoe Team

So, from this it would seem that you don't have to renew the map service after 3 years to keep using the maps already downloaded into the phone app... but you won't get any more updates and will not be able to add any more maps unless they are paid for. It also would seem that only the map service is subject to this tri-annual renewal fee.

Note: the email for the support web site is "ionexenergy" which is Ionex Energy and is the Kymco electric scooter battery swap program in place in SE Asia. Those scooter riders simply ride up to a battery swap station, pull out their spent battery pack and exchange it for a fully charged one. Only takes a minute or two to do the swap. Info on the Kymco.com/international web site.