2020 Euro 4 Running rough and difficult to start

[Silvers]

Hello you good people, I'm assured that you are the font of all knowledge on here.  - no pressure...

Aug 2020 Agility 4T Euro 4.

My grandsons had this scooter brought 2nd hand about 3 months ago.

Its his first bike on the road so hasn't got that much knowledge, however he has been complaining that it isn't responding when he turns the throttle.  I test drove it and wondered how the hell he is managing to ride it and stay safe.

He also has troubles in it starting and staying  running, having to play with the throttle to keep it going then it seems as though the Choke kicks in and runs quite fast.

There is also the fault light (Engine management light) constantly flashing on the speedometer clock face

Long story short, Checked and inspected the carburetor all seems to be operating correctly and all appears to be OK and working on the choke. checked to make sure there were no splits on vacuum pipes and all cables in good condition and all OK (Checked cables with DMM for continuity)

Problems still there.

Checked and replaced the spark plug, HT leads, Coil, air filter and made sure that the inlet ducts from the filter were all clean. 

Run it up and still running the same, checked spark plug colour and it looks like it's running very lean as its nearly white. (After about 20 min run) As its the E4 I understand that we can't adjust the fuel ratio on the carburetor.

Problems still there and light still flashing.

Now suspect the ECU is not operating correctly (Doesn't have the CDI in the battery box as its a Euro 4)

Do you guys and gals have any ideas of what else we can try apart from chucking the ECU on it (quite expensive at £160 delivered)

One thing I'm struggling to understand is that there is a small box in the battery compartment that just seems to hav a 12v + and a ground lead attached to it. (Will add a photo if forum rules allow)  There is also 3 wire lead going to a plug but its not plugged in to anything.

When we first came to look at the battery compartment the little box identified above was unplugged, we have plugged it back in and doesn't see to have changed anything and the EML is still flashing.

Problems still there and at a loss of what we need to do next.

FYI -  all tests have been done after the engine has been allowed to run and warm up before being driven on the road. Also I'm a time served vehicle mechanic, so nothing is too much of a problem or concerns me.

I can't find a wiring diagram to help identify what the said box is or whatever tests I can do to find the fault. there seems to be very little info out for Agility 50 4t E4 at all.  Our nearest Kymco dealer is about 45 miles away and is not forthcoming with any information,  I guess protecting his income so can't blame them.

I was lead to believe that the mystery plug may be for the OBD connection.

Pic 1 Battery box.
Pic 2 Mystery black box-1
Pic 3 Mystery black box-2
Pic 4 Mystery connector

[Stig / Major Tom]

Shame about that August 2020 buy date.
Kymco's 2 yr warranties are fully transferable to the new oner.
Welcome to the forum. Hope someone will come along to help sort this out with you.

Stig

[CROSSBOLT]

Euro 4 is EFI (That right Ruffus?) not carb. That check engine light is vflashing code(s) to tell you something is wrong. Tell us what the flashes are: 4 short blinks is code 4. One long blink followed by 4 short blinks  is code 14...like that.

The Ruffus is in Italy and works on these so he should be along shortly, I susprct.

Where are you?

[Silvers]

Euro 4 is EFI (That right Ruffus?) not carb. That check engine light is vflashing code(s) to tell you something is wrong. Tell us what the flashes are: 4 short blinks is code 4. One long blink followed by 4 short blinks  is code 14...like that.

The Ruffus is in Italy and works on these so he should be along shortly, I susprct.

Where are you?

Thanks for the reply.

We are in the UK.

See pic of Carburetor.

[Silvers]

Few further pics to help identify the system.

The orange cable plug is what I disconnected to test the bystarter/choke.  we did re-connect it once tests were completed.

[CROSSBOLT]

Definitely a carb! Ya got me on that one!

Do the blinks go in a repeating fashion?

[Silvers]

Definitely a carb! Ya got me on that one!

Do the blinks go in a repeating fashion?

He is out at 6th form at the moment so I will check when he gets back in later this afternoon.  It runs but the flat spot is awful, it dies if he stops at a traffic light so has to try and keep it going.

[Silvers]

Definitely a carb! Ya got me on that one!

Do the blinks go in a repeating fashion?

The blinking seems to have no sequence at all, I'm wondering if there is more than one fault and can't differentiate with them.

Anyone else have any suggestions?

[Stig / Major Tom]

Video of it?
Stig

[Silvers]

Hello brains department...

Spent quite a few hours on this over the weekend, managed to get some sense out of it now and the EML is flashing a constant 5 blinks.  any ideas as to what that represents?

[CROSSBOLT]

Hello brains department...

Spent quite a few hours on this over the weekend, managed to get some sense out of it now and the EML is flashing a constant 5 blinks.  any ideas as to what that represents?

Brains Dept.? Not here! Check service manual for that model. Manualslib.com for free or cyclepedia for pay. Maybe your dealer might tell you what it means. Send a private message to sousamoto and Ruffus, they work at this stuff.

[Silvers]

Brains Dept.? Not here! Check service manual for that model. Manualslib.com for free or cyclepedia for pay. Maybe your dealer might tell you what it means. Send a private message to sousamoto and Ruffus, they work at this stuff.

Thankyou,

Just been sent a list from another forum and they say it’s the e-choke.  So gives me a direction to go in now.

[Silvers]

Brains Dept.? Not here! Check service manual for that model. Manualslib.com for free or cyclepedia for pay. Maybe your dealer might tell you what it means. Send a private message to sousamoto and Ruffus, they work at this stuff.

Th only manuals they have are for the pre 2018 models, not the euro 4 as far as I can find.

Resolved the error code and no faults, however the flat spot is still there.  will see if it resolves the starting problems once we try it from cold.


Just for anyone info, this is what I have been sent,

1x Flash
•   TPS (throttle position sensor) lower than 0,2 volt or higher than 4,8 volt

2x Flash
•   Air valve on the carburettor (one of two)
3x Flash
•   Engine temperature sensor not connected, or contact problem
•   Engine temperature sensor broken (setpoint at 20°C is between 125+/- 6,5 ?)
(Alternative measurements: -20°C = 955 ?, 20°C = 125 ?, 40°C = 55 ?, 80°C = 12 ?)
4x Flash
•   Lambda probe defective, not connected, or contact problem
Alternatively, this error can also occur if the throttle grip continues to be fully opened while driving after reaching maximum speed. This means that excess gasoline gets into the exhaust and leads to incorrect measurements there.
5x Flash
•   E-Choke defective, not connected, or contact problem
6x Flash
•   Clutch sensor defective, or not connected
if there isn't a clutch sensor fitted and this error code is flashing, could well mean the ECU is faulty and needs replacing