Author Topic: Rider down! How do other clubs...  (Read 3359 times)

Whisper

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Re: Rider down! How do other clubs...
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2011, 03:25:32 PM »
  You are a good guy, JP - Every group needs a gent like yourself.  Glad to hear your mate was ok.

  Only 2 things I can add to the GREAT info here:

  - Slowest/newest rider leads.  There is no shame in this at all - It helps keep the group together.  Everyone else should space out a bit through twisties.  Believe it or don't, even the more advanced riders can hone their skills through choosing and keeping the best line through the curves without pushing the envelope.

  - I've laid a 50cc scoot down while take a tight turn with the throttle pinned like a maniac.  I learned a bit from that:

  1.  Get the best tires you can.  On many 50cc scoots, the stock ones are rubbish, the sidewalls flex like they are made of paper.

  2. The torque of the engine does effect the suspension.  Avoid DRASTIC throttle changes while in a turn.

  3. Trail braking!  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_braking Learn it, love it ;D  Non-linked brakes are where it is at, curves are the best place for back brakes.  Save all the traction the front has for turning.

  4.  Back to basics - Always enter a turn at the highest speed you'd want to take the entire turn at.  Coast into the turn, at the apex roll onto the throttle to set the suspension and cruise out.

ts1

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Re: Rider down! How do other clubs...
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2011, 03:59:14 PM »
This works very nice in ideal world (where people live in democracies, states provide social safety net to everybody and other lies).
This can (not must!) work in real world too. But one single egoist can destroy the harmony.
I have made trips with friends where engine powers varys more than factor 10 and top speed more than 100kph. Not only once!
And we stay friends and are willing to ride together again.

jprestonian

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Re: Rider down! How do other clubs...
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2011, 06:03:54 PM »
Well, hey -- we're an informal group of riders, and most of the time, most of the riders have at least a couple of years experience with their bikes, and have been on several group rides in the past. So we've kindly forgotten that it's a good idea to go over a few things before the ride starts. It's purely our fault, but I intend to rectify it.

The riders here tend towards anarchy... e.g., they generally eschew the idea of a club, so to speak, but don't mind meeting up for the occasional ride or beers/food. We've let that anarchist tendency creep in where it really doesn't belong. A few ground rules shouldn't scare off anyone we care about scaring off, right? As I say in the preamble to the document I'm drafting, "We will assume that you do not wish to be injured or killed, nor wish to see anyone else injured or killed on our rides. Agreed?  If not, please find others with whom to ride, thanks!"
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olbull

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Re: Rider down! How do other clubs...
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2011, 08:30:26 PM »
JP your brain is in the right place...Just forget the PC bullcrap and call it like you see it..If you know certain riders lack skill or group decency ...put there asses at the rear behind the tailgunner.....I have seen too many rides and riders get messed up by the front guy not taking command of the group....After 47 years of riding ,anything more than a 4pack becomes work and not fun... Spring is near....I hope lol
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If  your  not the lead dog the  scenery never  changes

klaviator

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Re: Rider down! How do other clubs...
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2011, 09:34:28 PM »
I despise and HATE all motorcycle-club stuff.  Generally, I do not like doing things in a group, motorcycle or else.
Furthermore, scooting in a pack is USA-thing: generally no such thing in Europe, or at least it is not common. There are only motorcycle groups/clubs riding together.

I used to have a "pack" of us riding together in my motorcycle days, but would not repeat that anymore (at least not with sports bikes or nakeds, maybe if I had slow custom hogs and things like that, but I would never buy them so it is just a theory).

However, common sense requires that the slowest rider is in the very front, then the second slower... all the way to the fastest rider that should be in the back.

Not vice versa.


I also disagree with the slow rider up front idea.  I also hate the "organized club ride in formation thing"  I have done hundreds of extremely fun group rides, usuelly in groups of 2-6 riders.  We always ride at our own pace and regroup at intersections.  If there are any riders who have not ridden with the group I make sure to brief how it will work.  I always stress "ride your own pace, don't try too keep up.  We will wait for you.  If you fall we will come back and get a picture of your horizontal bike ;D, then we will help you pick it up".  Most of my riding has been either twisty road sport riding or dual sport riding.  This way the fast riders won't get bored and the slower riders are less pressured to keep up.

Sometimes someone will let their ego control their pace and end up falling.  Luckily the people I ride with almost always wear good riding gear.  On dual sport rides, having someone, or more than one rider fall offroad is common and part of the ride.  It's rarely a big deal. 

The one exception to riding in formation is when on the highway or in a congested urban environment,  then it's a good way to keep everyone together.

I haven't been on a group scooter ride yet but i don't see why the same principles wouldn't apply.
I Ride Therefore I Am

Rocket City, Al

jprestonian

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Re: Rider down! How do other clubs...
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2011, 09:37:20 PM »
Yeah... I don't see it as "PC," per se -- just don't want to be throwing a lot of formalities at people who already seem resistant to the very idea of such. When the temperature is 70F, and you can only get six riders to go on this kind of ride, you really don't want to be too exclusionary.  ;)
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Agent Bob

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Re: Rider down! How do other clubs...
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2011, 12:31:56 AM »
If you like to group ride, fine. For me though the whole thing about biking is the freedom of it all...to go wherever you want, whenever you want, and as fast as you want, and not have to form a committee.

jprestonian

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Re: Rider down! How do other clubs...
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2011, 12:47:39 AM »
If you like to group ride, fine. For me though the whole thing about biking is the freedom of it all...to go wherever you want, whenever you want, and as fast as you want, and not have to form a committee.

Yeah, 'cause there's no way one can do both. :lol:  EITHER/OR!
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MrKymco

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Re: Rider down! How do other clubs...
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2011, 07:56:54 AM »
i am a member of the Los Angeles Scooter Group, a loose but well organized community of nearly 500 group riders. for every ride the route is mapped out, and a skill level for riders is given and emphasized, but left to each individuals best judgment. recently on a long(ish) ride (the bi annual "Twisty, Curvy" ride through some canyons) 3 riders went down in single bike accidents along the same stretch of road. no one was seriously hurt, some scoots got banged up. it's just the second incident in over two years of group rides. 2 riders were inexperienced on such a route, one rider went down trying to catch up with others to let them know a couple had gone down. a skilled rider using bad jdugement, he went down over some sand.

these are the group riding guidelines. its is a well run, well informed group imo




Group Riding:

BEFORE THE RIDE


 * We have a good thread on our Message Board with general riding tips and information about training and education. Mastery of fundamental riding skills (including starting, stopping, turns and cornering, swerving, hard stops) is mandatory. Each rider is responsible for having proper licensing and insurance.
    
* Whether riding alone or in a group, it's important to know your limitations as a rider and to ride within your abilities. You should be familiar with the limitations of your scooter as well, including top speed, cornering, and how far you can get on a tank of gas. Your scooter should be in good operating condition and properly maintained.
    
* Examine the route and stops. We'll do our best to post route and destination information for each ride and provide links to maps. Consider the types and difficulty of the roads along the route. Also consider its length and the time commitment involved. Remember that at the end of a long ride, you may have to still go quite a ways to get home.
    * Be sure to read the Meetup announcements carefully; they often contain important details such as route difficulty and posted speeds.
    * Ask questions! You can post questions on the comment page for each ride, on the Discussion Boards, or email the Organizer of the meetup directly.
    * Pre-ride preparation: Be sure to dress appropriately for the weather (check forecast before departing). Depending on the length of the ride and between destinations, you may want to bring a bottle of water or a snack. If we're heading for a coffee house or restaurant, you may want to hit an ATM before the Meetup. Bring your camera; we like pics for the Meetup site.
    
* Essentials: cell phone, license and insurance card, and an emergency contact number.  Check your tire pressure and oil levels before departing. Tire pressure is a huge factor in safe riding (acceleration, turning and maneuvering, stopping) and fuel efficiency but many riders ignore it.


AT THE MEETUP


 * Arrive at the Meetup on time and with a full tank of gas. Departures tend to be on "scooter time" because of the unpredictability of traffic in our region, but you don't want to be the last to show up, do you?
    
* New members should be sure to locate and introduce yourself to the Meetup Organizer. Let the Organizer know how long you've been riding and what kind of group riding experience you have.
    
* There will be a Ride Leader (who may not be the Meetup Organizer), who obviously rides in front and sets the pace, and a Tail Rider, who is the last rider of the group and who keeps everyone together along the route. The Ride Leader should let everyone know what the route will be and if/where there will be any stops for gas and so on along the way. If available, we will provide maps.


ON THE ROAD


 * Pack Position: Newer and slower riders should ride towards the back of the group. Don't worry about falling behind; the Tail Rider will bring up the rear and the Ride Leader will pull the group over or slow down as necessary so everyone can catch up. If there's a large group with several faster and slower riders, there may be pre-arranged "catch up points" along the route and a second Leader in the middle to direct the slower group if necessary. No one will be left behind.
  
 * Staggered Formation: On most surface streets, we will ride in a staggered formation, with the Ride Leader at the front of the left side. The second person is on the right, following at a one-second distance. The third on the left again at a one-second distance. And so on. Ideally, then, you should have a minimum two-second distance between you and the rider in front of you on your side. Some people are more comfortable on one side than the other so be sure to start from your preferred position.  If everyone is in proper staggered formation, you should pay more attention to those in front of you than worrying about those in back.
    
* Pace: We will do our best to maintain a reasonable pace that works for all riders and scooters participating. If you feel those around you are riding faster than you like, you can signal them to pass you and move to the rear of the pack. At the next stop, let the Tail Rider know you're slowing your pace and continue. (If necessary, pull over to let others pass and then signal the Tail Rider.) Don't worry about falling behind or holding up the group; we plan for riders and scooter with varying capabilities.
    
* Gaps in Formation: If someone drops out of staggered formation, signals others to pass, or if a gap somehow forms, try not to change land position to fill the gap. Instead, riders in the column where the gap formed should all move up. Gaps will naturally close at stops, so don't worry about it too much on surface streets.
    
* Stops: We'll close up the gaps at stop lights, forming two solid columns with riders side-by-side. When the light turns green, the Ride Leader will pull ahead and we'll resume the staggered formation. At stop signs, two riders (left side and right side) may pass through together; the rider on the left will then pull ahead. At most stops, the Ride Leader will turn to check with the Tail Rider to see if everyone is still grouped together.
    
* Split Group: If the group is split by a red light or traffic, those behind the light should honk their horns to alert those ahead. The Ride Leader will slow the first group to allow others to catch up. If necessary, the first group will pull over to wait for the second group. If there's a pre-arranged catch-up point, the first group may proceed to that location.
  
 * Lane Splitting: Some participants may engage in lane-splitting (riding between stopped lanes of cars) to catch up to the group. Only do this if you're comfortable doing so. If not, don't worry, we'll pull the group back together.
  
 * Single-File: On narrow streets, rough pavement, curves and hills, we will move to a single-file formation with a minimum 2-second space between riders to allow everyone room to maneuver.
    
* Hand Signals: The Ride Leader may employ some basic hand signals to let everyone know of an upcoming lane change or turn. Left hand aimed down at a 45 degree angle means a left turn or lane change. Left hand raised means a right turn or lane change. Any rider may also point downwards or point outwards with their right foot to indicate a hazard in the road. (Two fingers pointed down is usually a "wave" to other riders.) Riders should mimic the hand signal if they're comfortable doing so to "pass" it back so it's communicated through the group. There are other group hand signals, but these are the ones we'll most frequently use.
    
* Common Courtesies: If you have to leave the group in the middle of the ride, alert the Ride Leader or Tail Rider. Don't swerve through the formation or pass other riders. If you need to change position for some reason, do it at the next stop. Don't antagonize other motorists by unnecessarily honking, swerving or gesturing.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2011, 08:01:06 AM by MrKymco »
scoots!

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