Revisiting Dr. Pulley Sliders

[alyn 7777]

With much trepidation, especially after reading about Sissy Mary's horrifying experience with Dr. Pulley sliders, I decided to install a set of 28x22 30 gram Dr. Pulley sliders into my 2009 Xciting RI ABS.  I have 3 words to describe the difference - "Night and Day".  The bike is much faster throughout the entire power band. I no longer have to 'gun' it to get out of a jam.  I have read things like "eats my belt", "loss of engine breaking" "decreases mpg" but weirdly enough I only read these things on this forum.  No negatives on the EU or Asian forums re: Dr Pulley sliders. So I wanted to post my experience as a counter to all the negative reviews.  Let me address the negatives one by one.

'Eats My Belt'

I have no doubt that it happened to Sissy Mary, twice apparently. But I am highly skeptical the mechanic put his variator on correctly. The Xciting's variator is a PITA.  There are three washers, each one has to be in exactly the right position. The bevel on the inner washer HAS to be facing the engine. The next washer slides on next to the belt, and you have to torque it down slowly and just right so that the belt rides up above that washer allowing it to get squeezed in between the two variator plates. Only then can you torque it to spec. And an impact wrench doesn't cut it. You should really use a torque wrench and a variator tool to torque it to 135 per the manual. The first two times I used the impact wrench it SPUN off at high rpm on the center stand.  So I learned my lesson, I hand wrench the variator nut while looking in between the variator plates with a flashlight so I can SEE that the center washer is compressed tightly between the plates and the belt is free. Then I torque down the nut.  No problems since.

'Loss of Engine Breaking'

I can imagine this happening more with the 26 gram sliders, but with the 30 gram sliders I noticed maybe 5% less engine breaking. Nothing that bugged me and certainly worth the sacrifice for the huge increase in quickness up to 6500 rpm.

'Decreases MPG'

The 30 gram weights do not decrease my MPG at all, if anything it increases MPG by 1 mpg or so. With the sliders, you just have to learn to drive it different. You only need to gently roll the throttle and it is much more responsive throughout the entire power band. No need to gun it, ever.

With the 30 gram sliders you will wind out about 300-500 rpm higher until you reach the highest gear ratio of the CVT then it will be exactly the same as stock for a given speed. At 70mph you will be exactly the same as stock rollers only you will get there much quicker without having to gun it.  Where it does get tricky is at 55mph. At 55 I used to run at about 5200 rpm. With the 30 grams sliders it runs at about 5800 because it hasn't moved up to the higher gearing yet. The trick to alleviate this is to rev up to 62mph or so and slowly back off the throttle till you get back down to 55mph. The CVT will stay at the higher gearing at that point and the revs will drop way down. It's another step and a bit annoying but it works and for me a fair tradeoff for the extra quickness.

Around town it's massively more responsive and safer as I can power out of a jam with just a miniscule amount of throttle.  At 65mph-75mph, rpms are the same as stock but you get there a lot quicker with smooth throttle response.  I now slowly roll the throttle to quickly get to 65mph rather than gunning the throttle to get to 65mph.  I also run a pair of Nelson Rigg soft saddle bags (CL-955s) and they're huge (27 liters). The added torque from the higher revving sliders really helps counter the wind resistance from those bags up to 65mph.

If you want more power from your 500 and feel confident getting your variator back on correctly, I would suggest giving the 30 gram (or even the 31 gram) Dr. Pulley sliders a try.  It's well worth the 55 bucks and a helluva lot cheaper than a pipe or an air box.

I know another member complained his sliders were shot after 8000 miles. For the kind of speed and fun factor increase I'm seeing, I'm happy to change my sliders every 4000 miles if necessary.  The newfound oomph on my 500 has stopped me from coveting the My Road 700 or the BMW 650, so I figure I saved a few thousand right there.

Just my 2 cents. I will report back when I have 4k on these sliders. 

Many thanks to all the great posters on this forum! I wouldn't have taken a chance on this scoot without the resources available here.

[Stig / Major Tom]

Wow, Great post Alyn~!

The more info from actual users of the re. Dr Pulley's the better.
Adverts tell you something - but it is the feedback from those who have tried them that is so valuable.
Thansk again for taking the time to write this..........
Stig
(box of Dr Pulleys in hand!)

[alyn 7777]

Well, I've always used Dr. Pulley Sliders on my other scoots, a 150 and a 250 and never had any problems but there were some bad user experiences with them here on the Xciting so I hesitated a lot before installing them. I think the problem may have stemmed from others using too light a roller weight on the Xciting (26 or 28)gr. I can't imagine going lighter than 30 grams, peak torque on these things is at 5000-5500k and peak HP is at 7000. At the lower weights I'd imagine the CVT would be upshifting at about 6500-7000 which in the long run is probably not best for the engine or the belt. 

[bongoman]

After replacing the entire drive train after using Dr Pulley sliders, I was told that some counterfeit sliders were sold that did not meet original Dr. Pulley specs.

I also think the shop tech that installed my second belt after installing the Dr. Pulleys did not install them correctly. My drive train was torn up after 300 miles.

I was glad to read of your positive experience as the performance was truly different than the stock sliders.

[sissy mary]

I bought mine directly from Dr P in Asia. Still screwed up my belt and such.

[alyn 7777]

I think smoothing out the variator tracks with a dremel helped my install.  You really do need to make sure the sliders can travel freely and fully before reassembly. Also, I think the 28gram sliders may stress the system too much. After 2000 miles my 30 gram sliders still look perfect and performance is great. I check the variator every 600 miles or so because I am so paranoid having heard the horror stories. But so far so good.  I still believe that a lot of the mechanics are sloppy when they reassemble the variator on these things. The extra washer on the 500 makes it more challenging to torque down that most assemblies.

[alyn 7777]

Update:

So far 4000 miles on the 30 gram Dr. pulleys. Took apart the CVT today. No wear, no dust, they look brand new. If anyone is predisposed to this upgrade do it, you will never go back. You just have to put the CVT back together correctly (Duh) and slide the Sliders back and forth in the variator before you do. If they hang at any point of travel just polish the guides in the variator a little with a dremel where they hang up. I guess the sliders are a whisker wider than the stock rollers and depending on how well your variator was machined you might need this step.

[sissy mary]

I hope u continue to have good luck, but why should a costumer have to machine a part so that your product will work in their vehicle? Also, Union Materials (who I ordered from) should have told me I needed to do so. Bongoman spent $1,500 on his bike. I had to have the bike towed, order all new parts that I just had installed etc. I also had to rent a car, pay a tiny bike shop in the middle of know where to fix it, and so on. Dr P sliders may work in their own variators, but I would never use them again even if I did machine my inside pulley half. Don't walk, run from Dr P sliders. Stay with stock parts. Also, many people have had their Dr P clutch's explode, break springs, wear away the clutch shaft on their bikes etc. Their products are sheeet! Beware.

[bongoman]

Amen to that, Sissy Mary

[alyn 7777]

Your mileage may vary.  I'm sad about your loss, really am.  You both had bad experiences.  Mine has been great so far, as has been many other Xciting owners on the Italian Xciting forums.  If you're satisfied with the stock performance, why change? I agree with that. But I personally am not. The stock 500 is slow.  The belt and bike vibrates on takeoff.  I've read a lot of posts by people who love the Malossi variator set up and the hit clutch set up and the sliders set up.  Perhaps you got a bad batch of sliders. Perhaps the 28 gram sliders you used  were too light (I used the 30s). Perhaps you both did not install your variator correctly.  Who knows.   All I know is that I check my variator every 1000 miles because of the alarm bells you continue to sound on this forum and other forums re: the sliders. I'm not blind, I'm not an incompetent mechanic. I can tell you unequivocally that the sliders so far have shown absolutely no wear in the 4000 miles since I have installed them, nor has the belt.  The bike performs much better for me compared to how it performed with the stock rollers. It was a fantastic $50 upgrade for me.  I would never go back to stock.  And BTW, I've used Dr. Pulley sliders on two other scooters and loved them. To call them 'sheet' is basically saying that the thousands upon thousands of people who use them all over the world are idiots and that you know better than they do.  You've admitted that you don't know if your variator was installed correctly.  So let's be honest, you're not positive it was the Sliders that destroyed your CVT?  If you can respond to this and say you personally bent down and looked at the CVT assembly after your slider install, that you personally verified that the inside washer was installed correctly between the 2 variator halves, that the belt was facing the right direction, that the variator nut was not tightened until the belt was turning freely and that it was torqued to 135 ft/lbs and most importantly, that the sliders were installed correctly in the variator, then and only then will I believe that it was the sliders that destroyed your bike.  Can you absolutely attest to these facts?  If not, sorry, but it's speculation on your part.

FWIW: Here is the link to motor mod section of the Italian Xciting 500 forum.  They sell a lot more 500s in Europe then they do here and the owners are very savvy when it comes to mods.  Feel free to point out to us all of the Italian users who 'blew up' their CVTs with Dr. Pulley products --

http://lnx.xcitingclub.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=11

[bongoman]

Hey Alyn, I hope your experience with Dr. P continues to the good. Mine was great the first 8,000 or 9,000 miles before they blew out. Yes, two different techs testified that the Dr. P. sliders were to blame. And perhaps they were not installed correctly. I did not perform that task. You do not have to defend their performance to me. They worked beautifully until they failed.

[sissy mary]

Same here, mine where bought straight from DR P, 31gr. Everything fine, and then ka-bluey. The DP clutch, if you give it the gas, locks up right now. Your drive train was made to mesh, (clutch and bell). It is really made for racing. It puts way to much stress on your drive train. It fails often, with bad results. The M varo is fine. I just can't see the $$$$. And often people tell of lower mpg? If u break down in the middle of no-where? Who are u going to call to get parts over night? Good luck. I am sure the performance will be much better. I only tour. I ride mine like a gold wing dresser. So 0-60 & top speed really means nothing to me. Keep us posted on how it works out. U might also want to check out flying roller weights? Google it. 

[alyn 7777]

You know guys, it's a tough call. Your stories really had me worried from the get go, hence I check the CVT and will continue to check the CVT every 750-1000 with the Pulley's installed.  It's hard to imagine that everything would look perfect and new after 4k like my install does and then just blow up after another 4k.  Who knows, anything is possible.  I do know I wouldn't go with the 28 gram sliders because, for me at least, with my RI version the 30s are perfect. It's a totally different bike than stock. Gear change winds out at about 6400 until it hits its highest gearing then it drops to about 6k at 65mph GPS which is right in its power band.  My mileage hasn't suffered, if anything, it has improved.  I will admit that the 500's CVT is a challenge to reinstall correctly and I'm anal about it after hearing your horror stories. I would never trust it to a 'mechanic', even the local Kymco mechanic here who has done Xcitings but never a 500. There's also a small chance that Dr. Pulley remanufactured the 500 sliders since you bought, they list 28-31 weights as available and I think they only used to list 28.

I talked extensively with the German Dr. Pulley rep. He personally had a hit clutch on his 500  for 20k with great results.  My next move will probably be the Malossi variator and that won't be for awhile (if at all).  I saw some dyno tests on You Tube last night with the Hit Clutch on the new BMW 650GT and they weren't impressive at all.  In fact in the higher power band the factory clutch performed better, but the sliders over the stock rollers just rocked.   Link here:



I'll report back at 8k.  I think the arm wrestling back and forth on these issues is great.  Thanks for the input.

[sissy mary]

Thanks & good luck. My sliders were 31g. I wanted to lower my rpm's a little at hwy speeds. 

[alyn 7777]

Happy to report back that the sliders are wearing perfectly, not that I can see ANY wear at all, after 5000 miles of use. Xciting 500Ri still pulls strong with them. I went with 30grams and I think 32-33 is stock on a 500Ri (the carb version had lighter stock rollers). I highly recommend them. If you go with Dr. Pulleys remember to make sure they slide freely all the way in and back in the variator slots. If they don't, clean up the Kymco variator machining with a dremel (light polishing) just to make sure so you don't run into problems. And make sure you reassemble the CVT correctly!

Pic of Dr Pulley 30 gram sliders after 5000 miles of use attached.