weird starting issue.

[Resolve]

So my scooter was running good new battery and was driving it daily.  I parked it a few days and then wouldn't crank.  The battery showed full voltage but didn't seem to like loads. Well used my battery charger that has a booster setting to help crank a vehicle. Well still nothing.  I then hooked just the charger Up without the battery and it cranked and stayed running. 

Well I took battery to store they checked it and said it was bad and gave me a new battery.  Put in tried crankin. And nothing.  It turns over but won't crank.  I tried using the booster without the battery and again cranks no problem. PUT battery back in will turn over but not crank. Put booster on it and still won't crank.

Thoughts?

And the booster with out battery is hooked to the battery writes on scooter and starts fine.

[blue]

sounds like maybe your cdi box is bad. its not charging to turn the bike over enough to rev.so the higher power booster is doing it.
Orcheck all your relays.

[Resolve]

Didn't think of the cdI

Just thought was weird that if battery is hooked up even with booster it wouldn't start, but without battery just the booster it cranks.

I really need to pull it apart. And check everything.  Need to get new kick start abs try that also to see if it is the electric start issue or just an issue all together.  It seems to idle and rev fine once cranked though

[Resolve]

I think the only thing that has me baffled is the fact that it will start with the battery disconnected using my charger, but won't start using the charger if the battery is connected.

Then once cranked without the battery hooked up I can uplug the charger and it keeps running and all and stator seems to be fine. 

I order me a new ingition coil, and getting a new spark plug.  have another scoot that I am going to scavenge the starter off of and see if any of that makes a difference.  if not then I will look at cdi.

Think the weather has finally gotten to it.  Since never had a garage to keep it at the new house.  I think i am going to clean out the small shed I have and make room for it in there and just do a good maintence on it. and replace anything necessary.  Engine seems to run great once it cranks it is just getting it cranked.

Also check fuel and it seems fine will also clean carb again just to make sure.

[blue]

its hard to tune a scoot when the weather is below 30* most the time I find it takes some fine tuneing with the carb when the weater chnages. you just need to find the gas to air mix and you are all good.

[JJJoseph]

It turns over but won't crank.

Not sure what you mean by "turns over but won't crank"  - we could help more if we knew what you mean by this.  What you're describing sort of sounds like a too-small battery, or a weak battery.  Will it start if jumpered from a car battery?

[MaryK]

The CDI provides the spark.  If the engine runs with the booster, then the CDI is good.

The starter just turns the engine so it doesn't help with the electronics of starting the engine.

I agree that it sounds like a weak or too-small battery for this application.

scoot safely,

[reg]

Hi, your scoot runs on the charger without the battery connected because all the chargers power is going to the starter and cdi coil ignition. As soon as you connect the battery the power from the charger is now going into the battery, There is it seems not enough power left to start the scoot.
Its strange that the same thing happened even after you changed the battery for a new one. The odds aginst being given another dud battery are pretty high so maybe the new battery supplied was flat or nearly flat after being stored. That would explain why the power from the charger could not get past the battery and start the scoot. Try charging the new battery at least overnight and have another go at starting. Make sure the battery connections are clean, give them a quick rub with abrasive paper before doing them up good and tight. Dab some Vaseline ( petroleum jelly ) over the connections to keep them clean and corrosion free.

When you refit your charged battery use or borrow a voltmeter to check the voltage of the battery before trying to start. It should be around 12.4 volts or so. WHen the scooter starts check the voltage reading again, it should show 13.3 volts or so. This confirms that your charging circuit is working okay and the battery will be kept charged. Then turn the lights on and check the voltage again. It should still be 13.3 volts or so, this confirms that the generator output is good. If the voltmeter shows that there is something wrong with the scoots charging circuit the first and cheapest component to suspect is the rectifier ( under the seat pan). Not too expensive and easy to get.

good luck

[Resolve]

When I say turn over and won't crank.  I mean the engine turns over like it is trying to crank but will never actually crank and run.

OK so here is what I have done since last updated. 

I had the CDI checked at a local scooter shop.  They tried it on a known working agility 50 and it wouldn't crank and they put the CDI that was in the scooter before mine and it cranked again. so I bought a new CDI, but mine is still not working. I highly doubt I bought a faulty CDI that is brand new.  but you never know.

Now I checked again for spark.  and when tying to crank there is no spark getting to the Plug.  I tested my ignition coil and it tested fine based on the numbers in the service manual but I also replaced the coil just in case. Also changed the Rectifier

As for the battery it is a similar size to the one that came stock and it actually is a cross reference for that battery.  I have tried fully charging the battery and still nothing.  But I may try getting a new battery one more time since the battery I got from the part store seems cheap.  I guess I could hook my car battery to it and at least test it for now.  if my car battery cant do it then I know it definitely not a battery issue.

As of right now I am not getting spark to the plug.  After everything I have changed it is down to 3 things.  One my kill switch by the start button could be bad, the stator has an issue, or a wiring problem.

I tested the stator per the tech manual I found for the agility and OHM wise the stator is in the good zone.  But since cant crank it I can't check the voltage output.  Is there a way to bypass the kill switch to see if that is the issue.

The wires going into it are like 2 green wires, blue with white stripe and I think it was a yellow with red stripe (something similar to that).

And I am in the process of stripping the body panels completely off to check all the wires.

My last recourse.  is get some money.  buy a bigger scooter to drive daily and then just rebuild this one as a weekend rider with bigger cylinder and other parts.  But in the mean time I would love to figure out why this one is not working.

[JJJoseph]

When I say turn over and won't crank.  I mean the engine turns over like it is trying to crank but will never actually crank and run.

We really can't help you much unless we know what you mean.  What exactly do you mean by "crank"?  To crank an engine means to turn the crankshaft, usually by hand, or with a hand-crank.  The engine will never "try to crank" itself.  I think you're trying to tell us something else, but I'm not sure what

[reg]

Hi all, I guess he means that the starter is just about meeting the resistance of the engine compression and then has no more to give! You often hear on cars these winter mornings when due to the cold the starter can just about make a bit of noise but doesn't really turn the engine over.

Its a battery fault for sure.

[CROSSBOLT]

JJJoseph, welcome to the "Southern" expression that surrounds "starting a gasoline/diesel engine." When a southerner says,"It won't crank," it means the starter is spinning the engine over but the engine will not fire and run. Unfortunately, it ALSO means the starter will not budge the engine at all, so everyone can be really confused. I am a "naturalized southerner," have lived in the deep south for over 20 years, married a southern girl and STILL AM TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IN THE HECK THEY ARE SAYING, OR WHAT THEY MEAN! My wife is always introducing me to some new  (to me) expression.

Resolve, the battery charger spins and starts the engine which then runs normally, right? That just about lets the bike off the hook and points to the battery. Does replacement battery mean brand new and charged before put into service? Or does it just mean "different?"

Karl

[Resolve]

Thanks Crossbolt.  Yes crank = start in the south.  Sorry if my terminology is confusing.

the scooter engine will turnover (try to start) but not actually start. 

As for battery, the first one didn't work so had it tested at part store and they replaced it since it failed.   The new battery still didn't work. So I started testing other items and even tried a third battery from another scooter allsame battery but also same brand so maybe those batteries are crap.

Just odd that three batteries and none start it.  But comsidering same brand from same place within a short period I guess possible battery manufacture fault.

[CROSSBOLT]

Seriously, it looks like the bike and the battery wires are off the hook. Load test all the batteries you have, assuming that is what the dealer did. It does seem a little strange that ALL the batteries are bad. Anything below 10.5 volts is not good. Please post anything you find since it helps refine everyone's troubleshooting skills.

I could razz the south a bit more but I won't.....for now!

Karl

[Resolve]

Ok I tried a spark test again with new cdi still no spark.  So I went to the scooter dealer I got the cdi from and they tested it and it was faulty.   Wow they were shocked also (no pun intended) that it was bad.  So they gave me a cdi of aknown working scooter.   I got home hooked it up and did a spark test and now have spark. And it's a good spark.   Won't start yet so going to drain and replace fuel and let it warm up outside.   Us Floridians are not used to 20 degree weather.


so it may have been cdi all this time.   I will post again once I can check it again which will be this coming weekend.