The 10% Results

[Stig / Major Tom]

A few of us can find ethanol-free gas...most of us cannot.
So, I've been reading* into the question of dealing with ethanol/gas in our scoots, and here is what I've come away with:
a) "In a newer scooter, which is going to be ridden regularly,  in mild weather, no fuel additives are necessary."
b) "Using an ethanol treatment (like Sta-Bil) in each tankful of scooter "a)" is OK, too."
c) "Using an ethanol treatment additive in each tankful in cold and damp weather is good idea."
d) "An ethanol treatment "storage type" additive should be added to any scooter which will be sitting, unused."
e) "Adding an ethanol treatment to an aged scooter may cause problems if a fuel system cleaner has not been used     first."
f) "Ethanol treatments and fuel system cleaners are not the same thing."
g) "Don't use old gas. Nothing can restore it."
h) "Don't add dry-gas to the tank - there is enough alcohol already in there."
i) " In an older vehicle all kinds of stuff has deteriorated- including things in the fuel system. The enemy was age, not ethanol."

So, I will be buying a bottle of daily-use Sta-Bil and using it this winter in Ohio.
Come summer I may toss it.

*Sources used: Kymco USA help-line, rider w/60,000 miles on their scoot, Corvette forum, Vespa forum, SYM dealer, SYM forum, Kymco forum, Off-Shore Veteran Rider(stand up and wave Vivo !), Sta-Bil & Sea Foam and-the-like sites, and several other amusing, if not authoritative, info-forum-venting-vending & fibbing sites.
I found responses ranging  from - "Never touch the stuff!" to "I use a [fruit-salad] of additives!"
It was fun.
Stig

[donandrews]

So Stig, I'm wondering if (a) was from a dealer or mechanic? I have talked with 3 Kymco/SYM dealers who all insist I use high octane non-ethanol in my Like 200i. An occasional tank of ordinary high octane is OK in a pinch, but don't make a habit of it and use it all as soon as you can.

[ts1]

Why not using ethanol-friendly sources too?
In Europe we have a great community of ethanol fuel drivers (direct from the petrol nozzle usually 85%, from the rafinery 95-100%). In Brasilia & Co probably too.
10% ethanol is our standard (official) fuel. And even american car manufacturers have to deal with it, if they really want to sell. Henry Ford knew long before („The fuel of the future is going to come from fruit like that sumach out by the road, or from apples, weeds, sawdust – almost anything."). Obviously his knowledge got lot in the USA. But not in Europe.
Fear of ethanol is an obsessive belief!

[Stig / Major Tom]

So Stig, I'm wondering if (a) was from a dealer or mechanic? I have talked with 3 Kymco/SYM dealers who all insist I use high octane non-ethanol in my Like 200i. An occasional tank of ordinary high octane is OK in a pinch, but don't make a habit of it and use it all as soon as you can.

Happy new year Don,
(just finished a 2 hr ride....more snow coming tomorrow)
To answer your question regarding Scooter "a)">>  Comments are from a dealer who has sold and serviced "close to 2000 SYM scoots & bikes" over the past 6 years, and some folks with 60,000 miles on their scooters, plus others - who all state something which is becoming pretty obvious, to me at least:
Since most of the scoots sold in N. America have absolutely no access to ethanol-free fuel.....this fuel is not the modern small engine killer it is made out to be by some.
That being said, it is probably wise to add a bit of Sta-Bil to an ethanol tanked scoot which is being used in cold and/or damp climates; or in scooters which will be sitting for extended periods.
If you're blasting rapidly through tanks of ethanol-laced fuel it probably isn't necessary to use additivies even in cold/damp conditions.
This seems to make sense to me. Today I added some Sta-Bil to my BP 93 oct. because snow is coming and my scoot may be off the road for who-knows-how-long. Come the snow-free, daily riding,  season I probably will quit any additives.
These small engines sure seem to be fertile grounds for all kinds of discussions! ('Break it in per manual." "Ride it like you stold it!", ,etc)
Stig

[donandrews]

New Year's Greetings Stig. One last source that I did not see quoted.... Like 200i Owners Manual, pg. 12

"Fuel Recommendation.
Use unleaded gasoline with a research octane number of 91 or higher. Unleaded gasoline will extend spark plug life."
Peace and ride safe.

[Vivo]

These three people makes things confusing for the average person.... 1. The mechanical engineer, 2. The chemist or chemical engineer... and, 3. the veteran rider....  the three won't never agree on a single thing... 

Stig, good points there... letter "a" and letter "i" makes a lot of sense... 

[91cavgt]

So Stig, I'm wondering if (a) was from a dealer or mechanic? I have talked with 3 Kymco/SYM dealers who all insist I use high octane non-ethanol in my Like 200i. An occasional tank of ordinary high octane is OK in a pinch, but don't make a habit of it and use it all as soon as you can.

As far as the octane rating goes, I used 93 octane 10% ethanol fuel until my Like 200i hit 1,000 miles.  After that, I switched to 87 octane and have never looked back.  The scooter runs fine, does not knock or ping, and has ran for another 2,200 miles on 87 octane.  Keep in mind too that different countries rate the fuel differently.  For example, 87 octane in the U.S.A. may in fact be closer to 93 octane fuel in some Asian countries (or what I have read has indicated to be true anyway). 

When summer comes around, I'll probably go back to using premium fuel to help to prevent detonation and knock associated with higher intake air temps.  I'll keep a close ear to the motor on Monday to see how it does with 87 octane and 20 degree Fahrenheit ambient temps. 

[91cavgt]

So Monday morning I commuted to work in 18 degree weather with a brisk wind while running 87 octane E10 in the tank.  Throttle response was VERY snappy and off the line acceleration was better than I have ever felt. 


That afternoon I went to a gas station with dedicated hoses for the different octane levels and filled up with 93 octane E10.  This morning I rode to work in 22 degree weather, once again with a brisk wind.  The off the line acceleration was not as sharp as it was on 87 octane and off the line acceleration was like normal. 


Top speed was unchanged with 93 or 87 octane. 


I believe that the air was cold and dense enough that 87 octane was perfect on the 18 degree morning.  Since higher octane fuel burns slower and is slightly harder to ignite, this would explain the decrease in off the line acceleration and a decrease in throttle response.