Author Topic: Premium Car oil vs premium MC oil in a scooter  (Read 7360 times)

Haarek

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Premium Car oil vs premium MC oil in a scooter
« on: May 16, 2014, 08:19:37 PM »
I want to test my idea on you guys and check if my thinking is off:

This spring I have started using premium car oil in my Downtown instead of my usual premium MC oil.
Off course I use the same weight (SAE 10-40w)

This is why I think I can do this unpunished:

-MC oil is optimized for a wet clutch. And as you all know our engines use a different principle.

-My scooter is not revving as high as a performance motorcycle. The compression and power loading is not extreme compared to a modern car. Besides I use my scooter for transport - not for breaking the sound barrier  ;)


Why?

-Cheaper oil
-Why pay for features that probably isn't needed.

I am certain that my scooter won't self-destruct using car oil, but my question is more in the line of: Will my scooter run just as well on car oil as on the super-duper motorcycle oil on the golden bottle?

So what do you guys think?




boo

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good but, complicated subject
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2014, 08:56:41 PM »
My gut feeling is that quality auto oil will do just fine.
Most people do not keep scoots, motorcycles, and cars for a very long time.
Personally I think modern motor oils are great and do a good job of protecting engines.
I started reading about motor oils about five years ago. Mostly concerning motorcycles.

From what I can gather, some oils do protect better than others. Example: synthetics.
In wear ball, heat test, and shear strengths , the synthetics excel.

My question concerning motor scooter and motorcycle engines is; are antifoaming agents really necessary?.

We have two motor scooters in the family at the present time. I put synthetic oil in them because it gives me peace of mind. Is this necessary?. Probably not. Might be a waste of money.

I have a small pickup truck I bought new in 1990. It still runs good to this day and has never had the valve cover off.
Ninty eight percent of the time I have used Havoline oil and Fram filters.

I think your scooter will be fine if you use conventional oil and keep filter and oil changed regularly.

Just my opinion but, I`m a dummy!
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 09:01:11 PM by boo »
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Vivo

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Re: Premium Car oil vs premium MC oil in a scooter
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2014, 01:38:14 AM »
Yes you can... car oil is ok.... I use Delo for diesel... the secret to long engine life is not really the best oil but in making sure that the oil is always fresh and at the proper level...

Haarek

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Re: Premium Car oil vs premium MC oil in a scooter
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2014, 06:07:45 PM »
Thanks for the replies . I assumed as much, but it is nice to know there are some consensus.

kneeslider

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Re: Premium Car oil vs premium MC oil in a scooter
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2014, 12:41:29 AM »
Well, scooters rely on a CVT transmission where a motorcycle baths its clutch in the same oil as the engine.

So our scooters really are more related to a car in that sense. Scooters do not need motorcycle oil as those have friction modifiers for the wet clutch to work properly.

Car oil is cheaper and you're not paying for those additives that you do not need.
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MN_Scoot

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Re: Premium Car oil vs premium MC oil in a scooter
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2014, 12:54:01 AM »
I buy a gallon jug of Rotella T 15w-40 for around $15 and it lasts for years. When I bought my Agility, I told the dealer I would be doing my own oil changes and that is what he told me to buy. The engine still sounds great after 12,000km. Agree with the above that hitting the intervals and keeping it topped up are more important than expensive synthetics.
2007 Kymco Agility 50
Stock other than Dr. Pulley Sliders and derestricted from the dealer.

ophelia

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Re: Premium Car oil vs premium MC oil in a scooter
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2014, 07:23:06 PM »
I would probably use Rotella T6 5W40 synthetic diesel engine oil for those extra protective additives that are frowned upon in cars and catalytic converters and emissions but favoured by motorcycles. Kymco specifies synthetic for the Downtown, and 5Wxx will help the engine get lubricated quicker when starting up first thing in the day.

Smaller modern scoots with no oil filter I pour in Rotella Triple 10W30 or 10W40 diesel conventional engine oil. 15W40 may be a bit thick when cold depending where you live. Oil change intervals are short anyways, so conventional saves me money.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2014, 07:25:46 PM by thesurgeonistherobot »
2011 Kymco Downtown 300i

MN_Scoot

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Re: Premium Car oil vs premium MC oil in a scooter
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2014, 09:07:18 PM »
15W40 may be a bit thick when cold depending where you live. Oil change intervals are short anyways, so conventional saves me money.

I know that some of the different Kymco models have different recommended SAE viscosity ratings. My Agility's manual specifies 15W40, so users should definitely check the rating recommended for their bike.
2007 Kymco Agility 50
Stock other than Dr. Pulley Sliders and derestricted from the dealer.

ophelia

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Re: Premium Car oil vs premium MC oil in a scooter
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2014, 09:26:35 PM »
That's a very good suggestion. Sometimes the manual will have a chart outlining acceptable oil viscosity and operating temperatures. I know my old Bet and Win 250 simply specified 15W40, but it had more trouble starting and idling first thing in the 40°F morning until my mechanic suggested an oil with a thinner cold weight.
2011 Kymco Downtown 300i

de dee

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Re: Premium Car oil vs premium MC oil in a scooter
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2014, 09:32:10 PM »
in my 300i downtown Ive used syn. mobil 1,    5 w 50 and it seems to get better every year, over 24,000 miles now ,  so  I  am on happy trails ,.  I should call the scoot Trigger if you guys remember Roy rogers,.

boo

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Re: Premium Car oil vs premium MC oil in a scooter
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2014, 10:13:58 PM »
Well, scooters rely on a CVT transmission where a motorcycle baths its clutch in the same oil as the engine.

So our scooters really are more related to a car in that sense. Scooters do not need motorcycle oil as those have friction modifiers for the wet clutch to work properly.

Car oil is cheaper and you're not paying for those additives that you do not need.

Pardon, I think you meant no friction modifiers. Friction modifiers is what causes problems with wet clutches.
Excuse me if I`m mistaken.
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ophelia

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Re: Premium Car oil vs premium MC oil in a scooter
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2014, 10:21:26 PM »
Correct, boo.
2011 Kymco Downtown 300i

kneeslider

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Re: Premium Car oil vs premium MC oil in a scooter
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2014, 12:44:55 AM »
Pardon, I think you meant no friction modifiers. Friction modifiers is what causes problems with wet clutches.
Excuse me if I`m mistaken.

oh, my bad.
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Yager200i

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Re: Premium Car oil vs premium MC oil in a scooter
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2014, 03:45:51 AM »
It'll actually be more protected with regular car oil than with wet-clutch-type motorcycle oil, because of those friction modifiers that can't be used with motorcycles that have wet clutches.

The general consensus is that diesel-rated oil is better, since it has the detergents and buffers in it to keep the oil clean and un-acidified. Our scooters are somewhat akin to a diesel engine in terms of quickly polluting the oil.

And a diesel-rated synthetic oil would be best of all, of course.

When I was breaking my scoot in, I used 15W-40 dino oil for diesels, and changed it at 50, 100, 200, 400, and 800 miles, then every 600 miles after that. After break-in, I switched to Royal Purple 15W-40. You can greatly expand the life of an engine by frequently changing the oil during break-in. I *should* have changed the oil at 25 miles, but I went for a ride and went right past 25 miles, so I figured I'd do it starting at 50 miles.

Don't buy into the hype of using thinner oil as a means of "gaining a fraction of a HP or MPG"... the thicker oil provides a wider safety margin in those moving parts that might just touch (and gall) with a thinner oil. So even though Kymco has stated that my scoot would be OK with a 10W-30, I stick to what was originally specified for it, 15W-40. And that becomes even more important as the scooter ages and clearances in the engine open up a bit.

At 6229.8 miles (I went 29.8 miles past the scheduled 6200 mile oil change due to too much other stuff going on at the time), I started three courses of treatment with LiquiMoly Ceratec. I put 1/3 of the can of LiquiMoly Ceratec in at the next three oil changes. I can't say there's been an improvement in fuel mileage, because there hasn't, but there was a slight power boost that allowed me to increase my Dr. Pulley slider weights from 16 to 18 grams with almost no discernible change from what stock feels like without the Ceratec (it actually pulls a bit harder to top end now than it used to without Ceratec and with the lighter sliders). And a bit of a boost to my top-end speed, too, although that just tends to push me into the rev limiter more easily (and it's already too easy to get there).

I've been itching to try out the Royal Purple 15W-40 with Synerlec (some sort of additive, I can't find much info on it, though)... apparently it's good for engines that don't have a roller type valve train. It's hard to find around here, though.

As for the gear train, when I was using the factory-specified gear oil (75W-90), I kept noticing lots of 'glitter' in the gear oil when draining it. I went to Royal Purple MaxGear 75W-140 with Synerlec, and now the 'glitter' is gone.

ophelia

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Re: Premium Car oil vs premium MC oil in a scooter
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2014, 03:30:10 PM »
For what it's worth, motorcycle oils have molybdenum disulfide friction modifier for wear protection like car oils, but in smaller amounts. Motorcycle and diesel oils likely have more zinc phosphate to limit wear which is greatly limited in modern car oils to protect the catalytic converter if the engine consumes oil. It's an engineering tradeoff.

Thinner weights of oil may provide better flow and less wear at startup, but if in doubt, it is best to have an oil pressure gauge before experimenting to ensure adequate pressure at all engine speeds. Warmer climates should be fine with thicker grades.
2011 Kymco Downtown 300i

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