Linked brakes??

[Stig / Major Tom]

How do linked brakes work? Do any KYMCO scoots have them? Why, why not? Advantages? Disadvantages? The Honda Metropolitan has them. Why? I read that they insure the rear will lock first, no matter how the brakes are used in a panic stop. True? Sort of a poor man's ABS?
Stig

[klaviator]

I don't know of any Kymco's with linked brakes.  Linked brakes are not all the same but IMO most of them suck.  Most linked brake systems are set up so that when you use the rear brake, you also get some front brake.  The main purpose of traditional linked brakes of this type is to protect the idiots who are afraid to use their front brakes.  I have only owned one motorcycle with linked brakes, a 83 Yamaha Venture which I put 72,000 miles on.  Great bike but the brakes sucked.  I doubt I would buy another bike with linked brakes.  Honda puts linked brakes on all their scooters so they are unlikely to ever get my business.

Here's the main problem with most linked brakes.  When you use your brakes, you really don't know how much is going to the front or rear brakes.  In low traction situations or low speed tight turns, you can't use just your rear brake.  Linked brakes add complexity and cost and weight to your bike while offering no real advantages to a skilled rider. 

Moto Guzzi was the manufacturer that first introduced linked brakes.  I don't believe any of their current models use it any more.  Some companies like BMW use a system completely opposite from the traditional systems in that the front lever actuates the front and some rear brake and you can use the rear brake independently.  I don't really have a problem with this.

Don't confuse linked brakes with ABS which does offer some real advantages.

If you have no idea how your brakes work and don't care to find out, then linked brakes shouldn't be a problem for you.  In most situations you can't even tell if your brakes are linked. 

[BettinANDlosing]

No Kymco use linked brakes. Only scooters I know of that do are newer Hondas like the Met and Ruckus. Like klavitor said they suck lol

[ophelia]

Linked brakes can be useful on small bikes like the Metropolitan where the small front drum is tough to really get a strong grip on, and needs help from the rear drum or lever to really stop in time. On the Met, the front brake lever will activate only the front brake, while the rear brake lever grabs rear brake first and then both. I usually use the rear brake lever as additional leverage on the front brake drum, but I admit it is hairy at times when I need max front braking and the rear wheel gets awfully light...

I would like Honda making front disc standard instead, but I guess they have to make room in the budget for EFI and other goodies on their littlest bikes. I prefer Kymco's hydraulic shocks and front disc brake over Honda's EFI, but not everyone will have the same priority.

[BettinANDlosing]

I just don't like the linked Honda brakes because those small scooters are fun to slide and you can't with them linked!!!!

[scrollderf]

I had linked brakes on my previous Aprilia Atlantic 500. I only had a couple of emergency stopping situations in the five years of ownership. Each time they worked exactly as they should with quick, confident stops. I found them easy and great to work with for ordinary braking. I strongly recommend them. I highly object to people making statements like "they suck" when they have never ridden a scoot or motorcycle that had them. Lets honestly answer with experience please.

[BettinANDlosing]

I personally have ridden multiple time with links brakes. Personally, from experience, don't like them.

[ts1]

Several Kymcos have linked brakes, i.e. my Xciting 500.
Applies rear brake with some front brake. Usually can't lock the front wheel unless you pull the dedicated front wheel brake too and hard.

It is a trade off between more safety for common people in daily riding situations and less safety for professional riders in extreme situations (very slippery surface).
Professionals probably won't use a Xciting on a Dakar rallye.

[Porkie]

I have had linked brakes and all 3 bikes/ scoots I have listed have them.

The linked brakes work wonderfully and always have for me in a non-racebike/ supersport situation. On a track bike or high performance streetbike, independent brakes are important so that limits of adhesion can be felt before loosing traction.

This is a moot point because on all of the small scooter's here, all ya should need to do is put yer feet down:)

Sam:)

[klaviator]

I had linked brakes on my previous Aprilia Atlantic 500. I only had a couple of emergency stopping situations in the five years of ownership. Each time they worked exactly as they should with quick, confident stops. I found them easy and great to work with for ordinary braking. I strongly recommend them. I highly object to people making statements like "they suck" when they have never ridden a scoot or motorcycle that had them. Lets honestly answer with experience please.

I put 72,000 miles on a bike with linked brakes.  I think that counts as experience.  They sucked.  I also understand how brakes work so I fully understand the drawbacks and safety hazards involved with linked brakes. 

For those who have owned bikes with linked brakes who really liked them.  How did those linking the brakes make them any better than they would have been unlinked?  Perhaps the situation with the Honda Met which had a crappy front brake might make some sense.  People often say that their XXXXX had linked brakes and stopped really well.  Thats because it had good brakes.  How did linking them contribute?  Nobody seems to be able to answer that.

[Porkie]

Lots of us enjoy our linked brakes and they have worked fantastically for us and contrary to what you said, I feel the don't "suck."

The linked brakes on my NT700's and my Goldwing give the feel of power brakes, easily modulated, safe and powerful.

Does you car/ truck, if you have one, have linked brakes? Nuff said:)

Sam:)

[klaviator]

Lots of us enjoy our linked brakes and they have worked fantastically for us and contrary to what you said, I feel the don't "suck."

The linked brakes on my NT700's and my Goldwing give the feel of power brakes, easily modulated, safe and powerful.

Does you car/ truck, if you have one, have linked brakes? Nuff said:)

Sam:)

I have owned many bikes with brakes that were, easily modulated, safe, and powerful.  They were all unlinked. 

Of course my truck has linked brakes.  How does that relate to scooters/motorcycles? 

[klaviator]

I had linked brakes on my previous Aprilia Atlantic 500. I only had a couple of emergency stopping situations in the five years of ownership. Each time they worked exactly as they should with quick, confident stops. I found them easy and great to work with for ordinary braking. I strongly recommend them. I highly object to people making statements like "they suck" when they have never ridden a scoot or motorcycle that had them. Lets honestly answer with experience please.

I have had a few emergency stopping situations and my unlinked brakes worked just fine.  On the other hand, My venture with it's linked brakes would sometimes lock up the front wheel.  Since I have always known how important the front brake is to stopping, I would end up using the front brake hard and the linking systems would add front braking from the rear pedal.

For braking on dry pavement, I really don't see much difference between linked and unlinked.  Perhaps I ride in more extreme situations than most like on snow, ice or off the pavement.  Linked brakes are dangerous in those situations.  I could live with this if linked brakes offered me any real advantage in "normal" use, but they don't. 

[Stig / Major Tom]

I have had a few emergency stopping situations and my unlinked brakes worked just fine.  On the other hand, My venture with it's linked brakes would sometimes lock up the front wheel.  Since I have always known how important the front brake is to stopping, I would end up using the front brake hard and the linking systems would add front braking from the rear pedal.

For braking on dry pavement, I really don't see much difference between linked and unlinked.  Perhaps I ride in more extreme situations than most like on snow, ice or off the pavement.  Linked brakes are dangerous in those situations.  I could live with this if linked brakes offered me any real advantage in "normal" use, but they don't. 

I noted this for the 2015 Honda Forza....
"Front Brake / Single 256mm disc with twin-piston caliper with CBS (third front brake piston is activated upon application of rear brake)

Rear Brake / Single 240mm disc with single-piston caliper with CBS (one front brake piston is activated upon application of rear brake)"
Makes me think if Honda and Aprilia are using linked brakes -well,  they aren't exactly back-water companies when it comes to building scooters.
Thanks for your reply
Scoot safely
Stig

[2wheelfun]

Going around a corner and hitting sand with the front brake activated is a huge nono. For that reason I don't think I'd like a linked brake for the rear brake lever.