Author Topic: some scoots are made just to leave stock.  (Read 6544 times)

blue

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some scoots are made just to leave stock.
« on: August 22, 2014, 12:48:56 PM »
I have seen more scoots this year with big bore kits on theamthen last year.and they blow up like a month later.I try telling people dont do it unless you replace the crank to...now I can go back and say I told you so.the schiwin scoot and theam cheap tao.taos are the frist to watch blow up.one broke the muffler bolts right out of the scoot.now thats something to see.

kimura

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Re: some scoots are made just to leave stock.
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2014, 04:13:21 PM »
now you got me all worried bro,

I just put in a 70cc malossi cylinder and variator. the mechanic at the shop is telling me after putting all together it doesn't run right. he says it revs high but don't seem to be going anywhere.  it sounds like I need to change the belt. I'm waiting to get other people's opinions, anyone seen zombie?

anyone have any other suggestions?

bluesin

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Re: some scoots are made just to leave stock.
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2014, 05:32:11 PM »
now you got me all worried bro,

I just put in a 70cc malossi cylinder and variator. the mechanic at the shop is telling me after putting all together it doesn't run right. he says it revs high but don't seem to be going anywhere.  it sounds like I need to change the belt. I'm waiting to get other people's opinions, anyone seen zombie?

anyone have any other suggestions?


Zombie is busy building ( home ??   Shop?? ) something .
"There is a Fifth Dimension beyond which is known to Man. It is a Dimension as vast as Space and as timeless as Infinity......It is an area which we call 'The Twilight Zone' .   "Rod Serling

NeoGenesisMax

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Re: some scoots are made just to leave stock.
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2014, 06:33:55 PM »
Ok when you go 70cc and only use a variator kit with it you're not doing all the things that should also be done.  I read up on this extensively and also grilled my shops top guy and the guy that works up front.  This is a slippery slope my friend.  This is why I upgraded to a Like 200i in the first place.  It was easier that moding my Buddy 50. 

First you need to, at the very least, up jet your carb.  This is where carb experience is helpful.  There are two or three jets and a needle. These need to be correctly sized and "dailed" in.  An easier and better choice is to buy a larger carb because you're stock one just doesn't get the air flow to keep you from burning up yo sh**.  If I remember correct my mechanic suggested a 19 or 21mm carb. I could be off on that my memory is foggy. 

Second you need to get more air to that carb so you can get everything out of your carb and motor.  New intake manifold and possibly a new air box.  Some drill holes in their air box and just tape up holes as needed. I've even seen air filters made to plug those holes.  You'll want a decent air filter as well.

Third you need a good pipe.  Some middle of the road pipes do very well and you don't always need the one that's two hundred dollars more expensive.  Educate yourself on what pipe you'll need 2t/4t and what makes one manufacturer better than the other.

Fourth is your CDI. I am not well read on these but your ignition is important. If I remember right it controls your spark. Cough Cough (good plug too)

Fifth Now that pesky CVT.  Once you've got the air, fuel, ignition, and combustion all peachy you figure out how to tune your CVT to put that power to work in a way that suits your riding. 

 I seem to remember this whole slippery slope netting me an 800 dollar estimate in parts and labor. Good luck


kimura

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Re: some scoots are made just to leave stock.
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2014, 07:08:52 PM »
Neogenisis, I appreciate your help.


I'm sure there are tons of things I could do, but right now, I'd like to make it work with what  I have.

- a 70cc cylinder
- performance variator
- contra spring

I changed the main jet to 85.

I'm waiting to see what others suggest before I order the new belt. 

Stig / Major Tom

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Re: some scoots are made just to leave stock.
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2014, 08:05:28 PM »
I have seen more scoots this year with big bore kits on theamthen last year.and they blow up like a month later.I try telling people dont do it unless you replace the crank to...now I can go back and say I told you so.the schiwin scoot and theam cheap tao.taos are the frist to watch blow up.one broke the muffler bolts right out of the scoot.now thats something to see.
Wise words Blue, but I think you're gonna get some heat for voicing this idea out loud!
Some riders have to try I guess, for whatever reason.
For some it's just a fun pass-time.
So rarely makes sense, or turns out well, though, does it, once you're past taking that spacer out of the CVT?

Stig
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NeoGenesisMax

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Re: some scoots are made just to leave stock.
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2014, 10:12:37 PM »
It's all good man. Just remember that installing a BBK on your scoot and not putting the rest of the upgrades on it is like buyin a v8 with a few cylinders not working. You're not going to get out of it what you should be getting out of it and it may shorten the life of it.

Porkie

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Re: some scoots are made just to leave stock.
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2014, 11:04:05 PM »
The ability to successfully tune and build high performance engines is a science that takes years to develop with lots of failed parts along the way and tons of money spent.

Every system in the engine affects the other and the relationship must be symbiotic  and well thought out.

A larger bore will just give you more torque but the ratio between the new bore and the combustion chamber changes and the compression ratio can become much higher, leading to detonation and a holed piston.

A larger displacement sucks more air and thus needs more fuel to meet the optimum fuel/ air ratio.

To expel the extra air, a better flowing exhaust is needed.

If the engine's rpm's are limited by the ECM then the bike may accelerate faster but the top speed will be the same.

The CVT, clutch and variator must work in harmony to give either faster acceleration OR top speed.

To do all of this correctly, a person really has to know what they are doing.

Any time you modify an engine to get more horsepower, torque and rpm's the life span will be shortened in most cases.

Race engines used in competition are sometimes rebuilt after every race due to the wear and abuse the engine goes through in the event.

If you want to look and sound cool, build that little 50cc scoot! I have:) If you want to actually have something that will run better, faster and longer, just buy something larger and leave it alone:)

Sam:)
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kimura

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Re: some scoots are made just to leave stock.
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2014, 02:51:18 AM »
t.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2014, 03:03:56 AM by kimura »

blue

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Re: some scoots are made just to leave stock.
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2014, 03:46:37 AM »
Wow so many replys so fast.must be a good topic.anyways what im trying to say is if you do it dont do a half ass job the ones I see that blow are the ones that dont replace the crank if you feel you need a bbk do the whole think not just half and make sure your motor can handle it.and give it some brake in time on low throtle befor going all out.

blue

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Re: some scoots are made just to leave stock.
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2014, 03:50:13 AM »
Plus there is a lot of things you can do to make a stock scoot go faster.with out the bbk.

BettinANDlosing

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Re: some scoots are made just to leave stock.
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2014, 05:00:39 AM »
I would say it's a bad idea too pay a shop to do it too. They won't have the road time to feel what the engine needs, and if you want then to dial it in, it'll take loads of cash. If the bike feels like it's revving and not going anywhere the weights might be too light. But you're shop should be able to diagnose this.
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Stig / Major Tom

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Re: some scoots are made just to leave stock.
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2014, 10:40:17 AM »
Neogenisis, I appreciate your help.


I'm sure there are tons of things I could do, but right now, I'd like to make it work with what  I have.

- a 70cc cylinder
- performance variator
- contra spring

I changed the main jet to 85.
thank you for your input porkie.

i didn't have a motorcycle license (i will get it next season) thats why i got the 50cc.

in reference to the thread title, you might be right, but out of all the other scoots, the 50cc is the one that you would want to mod. stock from the dealer (even with the 2 restrictions removed) its barely safe in a 30mph zone.  for new york roads, its so slow that its dangerous. but don't get me wrong, i love my  scoot.



Im not planning on race it, I just want a little more pep, thats all.
I'm waiting to see what others suggest before I order the new belt. 
Yes, my local Vespa dealer stopped carrying the 50cc  scoots ...they are in a rural small town and unless you were going to trailer it to your neighborhood...you'd get run over just trying to get it home. The salesman told me this. Kymco dealer still has them on the floor...but fortunately they aren't selling. In Ohio you'd still need a full motorcycle license...so why bother with 50cc. My 163cc Like200i can not really travel safely on the country highways around here....55 ..60mph posted which of course is taken to mean the minimum speeds by all drivers!   So the Like200i is running for its life out there.....( think I saw 58mph on it once on a slight downgrade)
Stig
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kimura

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Re: some scoots are made just to leave stock.
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2014, 01:31:35 PM »
thank you for your post bettingandlosing.

now were are getting somewhere!


so the mechanic said that its revving high and doesn't seem so go anywhere. he also said that when he opened the scoot up there was lots of dust.

It looks like I should change the belt and roller weights, I wonder which roller weights my malossi variator came with, :\

which weights should I get?

2012 kymco super 8 50cc 2 stroke

70cc kit
performance variator
white contra spring.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2014, 01:40:24 PM by kimura »

Chris0381

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Re: some scoots are made just to leave stock.
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2014, 10:25:08 PM »
thank you for your post bettingandlosing.

now were are getting somewhere!


so the mechanic said that its revving high and doesn't seem so go anywhere. he also said that when he opened the scoot up there was lots of dust.

It looks like I should change the belt and roller weights, I wonder which roller weights my malossi variator came with, :\

which weights should I get?

2012 kymco super 8 50cc 2 stroke

70cc kit
performance variator
white contra spring.

Kimura I changed my roller wights and got them from http://www.partsforscooters.com/ Im using DR Pulley Sliders 7gm with purple malossi spring. I may mix them up with 8 gm sliders for a 7.5 gm slider effect.


http://www.partsforscooters.com/search-results?keywords=dr%20pulley
« Last Edit: August 23, 2014, 10:34:58 PM by Chris0381 »
2013 Super 8 50cc 2T Air Cooled Mfg'd 2012
Stock pipe derestriction
Smooth Boss
6.5gm Dr Pulley sliders
Malossi Torsion Controller
Malossi Fly Clutch- yellow springs
Polini Variator
#95 Main Jet
Purple Malossi Contra Spring
42 MPH on the flats with the wind

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