In order to start remove the spark plug?!

[gosku]

Hi!
This is my first post here. But it's not the first time I'm visiting this forum - thanks to all of you, I've read and learned a lot here!

I'm a happy owner of Kymco People S 50 2T from 2008. I mostly ride it in the mountains and small villages, usually travelling distances around 40 miles. Sometimes I want to start my scoot and it doesn't start up - sounds like a common issue - but it's not that simple. The only thing which makes starting up my scoot possible again, is to remove the spark plug and then kick the start pedal a few times. Then I insert the spark plug back and my Kymco starts up with the first touch of electric starter like brand new.

The spark plug looks good, it isn't flooded with gasoline and has brown color. One time when this issue with starting up happened again I tried inserting a brand new spark plug. It didn't help. I keep the air filter clean too. What's interesting is that I discovered the only thing that fixes this issue is as I said before - removing the spark plug and kicking the start pedal a few times. It's a bit annoying as it takes some time to do that. What do you think may be the reason for this issue happening? Could something be not right with the engine itself?

I'm awaiting your insights on this case guys

[zombie]

Hi Gosku, Glad your posting, and welcome to the forum.

Try un screwing the spark plug boot from the wire, and cutting off about 1/4" from the wire to expose some new core. Take a look inside the wire end of that boot, and make sure you see the pointed screw in there, and then screw it back onto the wire.
It may just be the wire has burnt away from the boot, and has to arc across. When you pull it apart to fix the no start, it may be just fixing that for a moment.

I would also check all the other harness wires near the areas you are touching down there. One of the connections in the harness may be loose or going bad.

Then check the ground wire from the battery to the engine, and frame. Same issue.

Good luck.

[gosku]

Hi zombie and thanks for your input!
I will definitely check the cables and connections one more time, just to make sure. Thanks for tips.
But if that is the case then why the spark plug always gives spark when I check it (I remove the spark plug from engine, place it on the frame and push the ignition button to check if it's giving the spark).
Also the interesting thing which I already mentioned is that I have to kick the start pedal a few times when spark plug is removed before inserting it back, otherwise the engine won't start. So it's not a random thing and the solution is always the same, and this is what is really odd.

[zombie]

Generally speaking what you are describing is a flooded engine. Kicking several times will expel the excess fuel.
If you are 100% convinced it is NOT a flooding issue then it almost has to be an intermittent wiring issue, and fiddling w/ things just gets it working again till the next go round.

I owned a Honda Prelude back in the day that would begin running rough at the first 30 miles of every damn trip I took. It was so bad I had to pull off the road, and wait approx. 15 minutes before it would magically clear.
Anyway I had a rather naive girl friend at the time, and told her if she open the glove box 6 times, and then turned on the radio the car will start every time.
The car died, and she did this routine. The car started.
Next time we drove the car it died, and she started this magic routine... I laughed my ass off.

[gosku]

Aww. So it's expelling the excess fuel and it might be a problem with flooding. Thank you.
I was setting the screws on my carb this summer. When I bought my scooter from previous owner, both screws were unscrewed only 1/2 turn and the scooter was always dying on idle and the spark plug was fouled. I'm new to these things, but I gathered as much knowledge as I could and tried to set it right. I also went to my local mechanic and he said I did a good job. I also checked the spark plug's color after doing some extended driving and it was brown (so technically good but maybe it's still a little bit flooded?). I haven't cleaned the carb yet, not to mention the needle setting, which I believe is very important.

Your story made me laugh till I cried! Good for her that you didn't take full advantage of her naivety, it could have been worse!

Btw, my speedometer cable broke recently. Replacing it was quite relaxing, to my surprise.

[zombie]

LOL. She was a sweet girl. Married a guy w/ a couple kids, and as far as I know was quite happy.

Anyway... the proper way to set the idle mix is to turn the smaller screw (idle mixture screw) in either direction until you get the highest rpm you can. If it goes too high use the larger screw (idle speed screw) to compensate, and repeat this till you get the best "tune" you can.
Once you achieve this turn the idle mix screw 1/8 - 1/4 turn counter clockwise if the screw is closest to the engine (intake) side, or 1/8th - 1/4 turn clockwise if the screw is closer to the air box side of the carb.
What that does is Slightly enrich the idle to prevent a lean running condition.
This procedure is best done w/ a new or clean air filter/fuel filter/new spark plug.

As a base line setting these small carbs run at or near 2 turns out from seated. This is just a base line, and not etched in stone.
Give it a shot, and see how it does.

[gosku]

Good for her 

Sorry for late answer and thanks for good description how to set the carb screws. I've done it just as you described before I encountered this issue of mine, I even put a new spark plug and air filter when I was doing it. Maybe my scoot needs just some fine tuning, sometimes 1/4 of a turn makes a noticeable difference.
One thing you mentioned that I didn't know about is that there's a difference between having the idle mix screw closer to the engine or to the air box. Good to know 

Mine carb before I changed the screws settings had the idle mixture screw turned out only half a turn from seated. And the idle speed screw was something like 1 turn out from seated. It was strange. The spark plug was dark and it was constantly dying on idle when waiting for traffic lights to change (unless I was adding some throttle). Now it's (nearly) perfect! And the screws are turned out 2 and 1/8 (idle mixture) and 2 (idle speed). I had it running with less turned out screws too, but if I remember well it was gaining speed slower back then, like there was a moment of "freeze" when you added throttle and the response from the engine was delayed.  Anyway, I will do my best to fix this small issue of mine when I will be able to (I'm currently out of the town).

I hope the winter won't be too harsh for us 

[zombie]

That little delay is usually present in all these bikes. There is a TINY accelerator pump that squirts a TINY amount of fuel when you open the throttle. Trouble is the hole that squirts the fuel is so small it clogs. Brand new bikes have the same problem. If the bike sits for 2-3 weeks the fuel alone is enough to clog it.

Anyway, glad you have the idle sorted, and I hope you can post up when you get the whole deal working.

I live in Florida, US so I never really have bad winters. Just bad attitudesn.
Best to ya!

[gosku]

You're right, it is just a 50 ccm engine, everything is so small and maybe sometimes I'm just expecting too much out of it! 

Currently it is more than 3 weeks since the last time I made a trip on it. I'm currently living in Warsaw, Poland, and the bike is 400 kilometers away, waiting for those times when I'm off work. I will have a week of holidays in November so I will definitely ride & fix it and post the results.

Anyway, do you have some good tips what to do with this clogged hole when it happens, or how to avoid it? Probably there's some kind of fuel additive which prevents this... This goes to my search list for those rare times when I have some free time 

The winter which you have there in Florida is probably warmer than spring or even summer here, lucky you 

[zombie]

I moved here just because of the Climate. Fl. is too expensive, and the Govt' here just plain sucks. Corruption/everything you want to get done is attached to a fee of some sort, and we have to pay for everyones kids.
I think Welfare is the number one job here.

Anyway... If the bike sits for extended periods it is best to pull the fuel line, and run the carb dry.
Also adding one ounce of SeaFoam to every fourth or fifth tank will help keep everything clean, and clear. As a rescue cleaning use 2 ounces for two tanks in a row. That will remove most residues, and moister issues.

I have never found any other product that actually works.

[gosku]

Wow I wouldn't suspect the corruption to be such a problem where you are living. That's shocking! But the climate must be really nice if you moved there just because of it.

Thanks for sharing this with me! I looked for Sea Foam but the closest they sell it is in the Great Britain and the freight charges to Poland are ridiculously high. So I bought a bottle of Kleen Flo fuel stabilizer, at least the fuel won't get stale when I leave the bike for a longer period of time. But it's very strange that we can't buy Sea Foam here, it's so popular in US from what I've read.

Now I have a break from work and I'm back in the mountains. It's quite cold but sunny here, around 8 C, but I rode all day long. Everything's fine and I'm very happy! Except the speedometer. The cable broke near the wheel in the summer, it took me some time before I removed it. Recently I installed new cable from Kymco dealer, it's the same as the old one. But the speedo showed only like half of the real speed and the red pointer was shaking and jumping. And now after I rode all day, the speedometer constantly showed only 10-15 kmh when I was riding at around 60-70 kmh. The pointer barely moves. When I turn the scooter's ignition on, the red pointer goes all the way to the max speed and back to the 0, so it's fine I guess. Do you think it might be something wrong with the thing (don't know how to call it) at the front wheel, where you insert the speedo cable?

[zombie]

It could be the gear is faulty. The cable must have broken for some reason... I'd pull it apart to check.

Did the old cable slide out easily? No signs of rust?
It should have come out like a tooth pick in a drinking straw. Same for installing the new one.
It could also be the drive plate, and the cup it sits in between the wheel, and the fork. If the tire was removed, and those parts were not properly aligned it may be squashed between them.

[gosku]

Thanks for giving me those check-tips. The cable slides out easily and I didn't see any rust. I also checked the drive plate by inserting a new speedo cable into it and spinning the wheel with my hand and the result was that the cable turns. I'm going to check the speedometer in a similar way - remove the cable from drive plate, try to spin it as fast as possible with my fingers and check if the speedometer moves at all. If not, something must be broken inside... Winter is coming so I think I will find the time to finally check & fix it during some long, dark and cold evening. I hope it's not that complicated to get inside of a speedometer and see what's wrong there! 

[zombie]

That housing is sealed. It prevents us hooligans from messing w/ the odometer.

The best way to check it is as you said, spin the cable, and check for binding. The cable end spins a magnet that sits inside a steel cup. Sometimes that cup will get rusted up, and interfere w/ the otherwise smooth running you expect.

If it is faulty the only practical option is to replace the Inst. Cluster.

[gosku]

Hi!

Oh so there's a magnet there, good to know. I learn so much thanks to you!

I didn't want to reply while having nothing new to say, but now after I checked I can finally confirm that the housing is sealed since I, the hooligan, couldn't get there 

So I checked by spinning the cable with my fingers and the speedometer works flawessly 

The problem is at the other end, by the wheel. I discovered that the speedo cable turns only when the wheel is turning backwards. So when I'm actually riding it doesn't turn at all. Something must be wrong with the drive plate / cup. Maybe those parts were not properly aligned when I changed the tires at a local mechanic. Or maybe they're already worn or badly damaged and need replacing. I looked in the service manual and I think that the speedo related parts at the wheel are marked with numbers 44800 and 44680. Or maybe I'm wrong here and these aren't the ones? I would like to order those and then have them replaced and have the odometer working again!





What ya think good ol' Zombie? 
Oh and Merry Christmas!