Trouble with my recovered scooter

[arcus]

What was throwing me off is the little item above 19 and 20.  It is in the manual too, yet I don't have that item.  Anyway I bought a used carb and put it on.  No difference at all.  The scooter is either putting way way to much fuel in or the plug cant ignite it.  I took the bolt out of the exhaust and when cranking the engine it wont start but fuel is spraying out the hole, then when you stop cranking it drops out.  This is with both carbs, same thing.  I am starting to learn towards coil, maybe not strong enough? Or something else like that, just cant believe that two carbs both have the same problem at the same time.  But any advice is appreciated in getting this sorted out. 

[zombie]

Squirt the crab clean in the eyes. It will become all to clear to you then. You can't cut corners w/ this stuff.

Honestly I don't understand how the bike can run if it is spewing fuel out the exhaust. In fact I think it is imposable.
Perhaps your canister is full of fuel? (emission) If you messed up inside the carb the bike would either stall/not run at all or be weeping fuel all around the carb/airbox.
It could be your diaphragm in the fuel petcock is leaking, and the fuel is pouring into the vacuum line, thru the emissions lines.?.?.? Follow the steps B&L posted first. I'm just thinking out loud.

Electrical... If there is a short or a mis connected wire it will cause the connector on the rectifier to fry. It's the weakest link.
Again follow B&L's advice but keep an open eye for something wrong in the wiring. A meter is the only way to troubleshoot electrical. Everything else is shear luck or years of experience.

[BettinANDlosing]

Yeah thats the part I thought you were talking about. I am not sure of the technical name but it helps with fuel atomization and you NEED THAT FOR IT TO WORK. It is lightly pressed into the carb body, can you look through the air box side of the carb and see that piece sticking out? It will be sticking out about 1/8". It won't just fall out when you take the emulsion tube out, you need to take the needle and slide diaphragm out and push that brass tube downwards and it will pop out where you screw the main jet holder in. If you have that much fuel puking out something is WRONG. But that's strange it does the same thing with the other carb. There is the chance the crankcase is filled with gas, did you check your oil level? If it's unusally high it has gas in it and you need to drain it and check your float needle. Stuff like this is hard to figure out without seeing in person.

[arcus]

After thinking for a day about the problems I came up with nothing, so I went out to tinker and hope something came to me.  When I went out I noticed a black thick looking fluid from up under the scooter kind of where the battery is.  Looked up inside there where some part of the vacuum system is and there was evidence of fuel there.  Went to start the scooter and it would not crank over.  Pulled the plug and fuel leaked out, and when cranked it shot out.  I am starting to think vacuum problem putting way to much fuel in??  I cant find any good charts in the manual that explains what each vacuum line does and what way it is sucking and or blowing.

On another note I pulled the reg/rec off and the red wire plug pulled out of the reg/rec and the plug is burned at the red wire. The red wire goes to the battery, so going to order a new one of those and find a new plug I guess.  Done with cranking at least until I get that under control.

I would like to take a moment and thank everyone that has responded.  I know it is a pain in the ass to try and diagnose a problem over the internet like this.

[zombie]

Were all used to ass pain here. Most of us are actually immune. i was married 3 times so I am long past it.

You have something hooked up wrong in the vacuum system, or a leaking petcock.
Also you MUST drain your oil, and do 2 successive changes to flush out all THE FUEL.

sTART BY BUYING A NEW SECTION OF VACUUM TUBBING FROM aCE OR aUTO ZONE OR WHERE EVER.

sORRY BOUT THAT.

Pull off your fuel line, and see if the petcock runs fuel w/ no vacuum. My guess is yes. Take the new vacuum line, and blow into it on the petcock, and see if you can get the diaphragm to move. This is only IF the vacuum line/fitting is not leaking fuel. If you get it to clear/stop then run the new line directly to the manifold fitting, and scrap all the other lines/hoses.

Also get a new petcock cause it will fail again shortly.

I am actually betting your vacuum line is the one carrying fuel into the manifold, so look for fuel coming out of the vacuum fitting. That sounds more like what is happening. The fuel you are seeing in the pipe is most likely being sucked in thru the emissions side, and pumped into the pipe at that fitting. The bike could not EVER run w/ that much fuel in the cylinder.

You would have to have a bad needle/seat in the carb or a stuck float AND a stuck open petcock. Chances are low for that.

Also inside the tank is a stainless screen about the size of a Cig. . Pull that out to clean any debris, and look inside for rust.

[arcus]

I have good news!  So I changed out the oil and put in the new voltage regulator.  I could not get a new plug in time (still 7 to 20 days out) so I just put individual  connectors on each wire.

     I also bought a vacuum test gauge and started in on the vacuum system, first thing I did was hook up the vacuum gauge to the fuel petcock thingy on the bottom of the tank.  When I applied vacuum to it fuel came out the vacuum tester.  So I have a new one on the way and will get that swapped out soon.  I then put a clamp on the vacuum line to the fuel petcock and tried starting the engine.  It actually started and idled for the first time since I got it back.  However when I gave it a little gas I could see liquid start to form around the end of the exhaust so it is better but not fixed completely.  I am hoping that that is just residual fuel still in the vacuum system but am not going to run it anymore till I get the new fuel petcock.  I feel like I am narrowing in on the problem now and sill soon get my little guy running again.

    While running the new voltage regulator and new plugs did not smoke and did not get warm to the touch so I am hopeful there also.

[zombie]

Good for you Arcus. Please keep us updated.

[arcus]

Got the new petcock put in.  Started it up and it started ok, bit more cranking then it used to need when running great, but it did start.  Let it idle for 30 seconds or so and then gave it some gas.  At first it was still throwing liquid fuel out the exhaust.  Let it run for awhile longer thinking that if there was still gas in the smog system it might take a bit for it to get all out.  Sure enough after about 2 minutes of running I could rev it up and no gas.  However it is not running right, more smoke then I would expect and it wont idle (it was idling ok when cold) and when revved up it starts to stumble and wont rev past a certain point and really starts to smoke.  Think I am going to let it cool off and tomorrow I will swap the carbs again and see if it runs better with the other carb.  If it doesn't then.... well I am not sure but seems like it is a carb issue now.

[zombie]

Do another oil change. The oil is noo doubt contaminated. Also a new spark plug. I assume that one is fouled.
Was it smoking white or black?
White is oil fouling, and black is fuel fouling.

Also the entire pipe/smog system is saturated w/ fuel. The pipe will burn it off rather quickly but you may need to replace the canister. You can simply crimp off the hoses to it to verify this.

The fumes from the canister are enough to enrich the mix enough to create a "flooding" condition.

Good news is the petcock seems to have been the root of the problem.
Now you should also connect a volt meter to the battery to verify the rectifier is working correctly. +12ish volts at rest/ 10v ish cranking/ 13-14v ish at 2000 rpm.

[arcus]

     Oh! I cant believe I forgot to check the voltage, I meant to do that too.  I did check the connectors and they were not hot again.
     I did change the oil again today for the second time.  It is whiteish smoke I would say.  I did replace the plug earlier but will pull it again tomorrow. I also have a new coil for it and cdi, but not putting the cdi until it is running right.  Still not adverse to the idea of bypassing all the emissions crap but not sure what needs have a vacuum to it and what doesn't.  Over all I am happy with the progress but feel like now I am getting to the hard part, that is getting the carb to work correctly.

[zombie]

Before you pull the carb... The ONLY vacuum that is needed is the line to the petcock. All the rest is redundant.
Block off all that crapola, and see if the bike runs on the carb you have installed. Make sure the auto choke is hooked up, and working.

I think it is simply sucking fumes or the choke is fried. It has to move 4mm minimum.

[arcus]

Lets face it sometimes life likes to kick you when you are down.  So contrary to the first sentence I have had some continued success.

     I started out pulling the plug and looking at it. I opened the gap to the max the book stated since I was putting in a hotter coil.  The plug looked fine, I then unplugged the vacuum lines to everything but the fuel petcock and a line going to the carb.  It still ran like crap.  So I pulled the carb and put in the spare. Started it up and it ran pretty good.  I put all the tuperware back on and got ready to take it for a test spin.  After putting it on the side stand I thought I should check the tire pressure real quick. Came back with the pressure gauge and fuel was everywhere on the ground.  This is where I felt like I was being kicked while I was down.     Anyway, pulled everything back off and pulled the carb again (I am getting good at this) and looked at the float bowl overflow.  I could not see a problem but thought "I bet the original carb float bowl is the same size".  Took it off and swapped it and no more leak.  Back on went the plastics and off I went on the test ride.

     Good news: it ran smooth ran up to a indicated 60 and seemed to have its normal power (well maybe a little low).  Bad new it was smoking the whole time, did not notice till I stopped at the top of a hill, then smoke everywhere.  Also the voltage at the battery is high, 13 volts at idle but up to 15.7 or so when revved.

     On the smoking, I checked the oil when I got back and it was the correct level, I am not sure if maybe there is excess oil and fuel still in the exhaust? or if it is something else.

     On the maybe lack of power (it has been over 6 months since I last road it so not really sure as I don't remember well) it feels like maybe the throttle isn't twisting as much as I remember....or I am just comparing it to my motorcycle, I don't know.

[zombie]

The high voltage still indicates a "floating" ground. Try running a 10-12awg wire from the mounting tab of the rectifier directly to the chassis ground. Same for the green wire on the rectifier. Add a second "pigtale to that, and follow it to the chassis. 16v is too high, and will boil out a battery in an hour.

The smoke puzzles me. It has to be burning oil or the canister is full of fuel. Best case pull out the canister. Worst case pull the cylinder, and inspect that, and the rings.
It's very likely the bike was dumped, and over revved. That will mess up a cylinder in no time.

Do us ALL a favor, and pull off that F'n canister!

[arcus]

I assume by canister you mean the one up by the seat? If so it is disconnected, still on the scooter but disconnected from the vacuum lines.  I got a plug today to remove the large tube from the top of the head and plug that tube up.

On the electrical, was looking around today and noticed that the fuse for the battery did not have a fuse in it, the people that stole it had removed the fuse and crimped the two sides together to short it out.  So while I don't know why the system is overvolting I at least know why it was melting the plug and the wires at the voltage regulator.  I tested the resistance from the regulator bolt to the battery negative terminal and it was not 0.  So going to run the wire like recommended.  I also noticed the headlight bulb was burned out, not sure if that is a symptom or a cause but got a new bulb I will put in tomorrow. 

[zombie]

That goes back to the beginning where I bet you there was tin foil or a nail installed in the fuse holder due to some Moto cross riding.

That wire will fix the overvolt. I'm 99% sure of that. The only other thing would be a shorted stator from the excessive current. I'll bet on the floating ground tho...

Since the canister is out of the Pict there must be a problem in the cylinder or the entire vacuum system/pipe are saturated w/ fuel.

Try to ride it out/clear. If it persists or just breaks... You had to open the head anyway.