New Kawasaki J300 scooter is really a Kymco Downtown 300

[gn2]

Most likely a more aggressive Ign. timing curve, and a re-mapping of the injection. My guess is more throttle response, and perhaps a few more HP over the Kymco set up.

Just guessing here...

Kawasaki has more torque, slightly less peak power, better midrange.
Feels sportier apparently.
UK prices:
Kawasaki J300 ABS £4399
Kymco Downtown ABS £4199

[AMAC1680]

Kawasaki has more torque, slightly less peak power, better midrange.
Feels sportier apparently.
UK prices:
Kawasaki J300 ABS £4399
Kymco Downtown ABS £4199

Specs please to support your claim.

Remember the Kawasaki is not competing against the DT, it's competing against the Forza.
The Forzas is far more advanced design, although a bit slower than the DT.

So Kawasaki takes a old rehash to the sales race against the Forza. I'll bet on the Honda
No commitment at all.


Be Big,
AMAC

[NeoGenesisMax]

Well according to the review I just read the Kawi has like 3 ABS options. Seems like Kawi is at least trying harder to give consumers options they would want.  It is beyond me why Kymco decided for us that we don't want the option. Hell one of the options links the front and rear brakes like I see Honda doing.

[zombie]

Something to consider... I might start a new thread on this.

Most of the cheap China made scooters have a module the attaches in line on the front brake. It is a cylinder w/ a reservoir that is rider adjustable. In essence it is an anti lock brake, It can be retrofitted to any bike, and adjusted as per the riders needs.

something to consider...

[BettinANDlosing]

Those Chinese things only cut down how much pressure goes to the caliper. Dangerous in my opinion.

[zombie]

That's the way I see ABS.. Dangerous.

You are 100% correct. They do cut the pressure applied, and thereby (if adjusted correctly) they do prevent the front/rear wheel from locking. In ice/snow/sand/rain the tire can still lose traction, and slip but that is no different from ABS reducing pressure to a "0" brake effect.

I was just throwing the idea out there...

[BettinANDlosing]

That's the way I see ABS.. Dangerous.

You are 100% correct. They do cut the pressure applied, and thereby (if adjusted correctly) they do prevent the front/rear wheel from locking. In ice/snow/sand/rain the tire can still lose traction, and slip but that is no different from ABS reducing pressure to a "0" brake effect.

I was just throwing the idea out there...

Oh I'm totally with you on that aspect tho.

[gn2]

Well according to the review I just read the Kawi has like 3 ABS options

Nope, there is a single type of ABS offered, front and rear brakes are independent and not linked.
Its probably the same Bosch kit fitted to the Downtown.

[NeoGenesisMax]

Ok those units are just on cheapo chinese scoots and arent true abs.  Didnt anyone read Stig's post? I dont get people that are against this. They always spout off things that arent true. But by all means do without. While youre at it take it out of your car and take them pesky airbags out they only make things heavier and more expensive. If you drive good you dont need them...... unless there is an accident.... Oh wait.

BTW

I was not wrong.

"Sudden over-application of the brakes, or braking on low-grip surfaces (surfaces with a low coefficient of friction) such as wet asphalt or manhole covers may cause a motorcycle’s wheel(s) to lock up and slip. ABS was developed to prevent such incidents. Kawasaki ABS systems are controlled by high precision and highly reliable programming formulated based on thorough testing of numerous riding situations. By ensuring stable braking performance, they offer rider reassurance that contributes to greater riding enjoyment.

And to meet the special requirements of certain riders, specialised ABS systems are also available. For example, KIBS (Kawasaki Intelligent anti-lock Brake System) is a high-precision brake system designed specifically for supersport models, enabling sport riding to be enjoyed by a wider range of riders. And by linking the front and rear brakes, K-ACT (Kawasaki Advanced Coactive-braking Technology) ABS provides the confidence to enjoy touring on heavyweight models. Kawasaki is continually working on the development of other advanced ABS systems" -Top Speed .com

Directly from the J300 review

[BettinANDlosing]

Some of us will never like ABS no matter how much anyone tells us. Just the way it is, not saying it's inherently bad, just don't like it. Don't like it on cars or bikes. It'd be a sad day in America, land of the "free" if it was mandatory on bikes and scoots.

[NeoGenesisMax]

Some of us will never like ABS no matter how much anyone tells us. Just the way it is, not saying it's inherently bad, just don't like it. Don't like it on cars or bikes. It'd be a sad day in America, land of the "free" if it was mandatory on bikes and scoots.

I understand.  I don't think anyone that does not want it should be forced to have it.  I just can't see why people who do want it don't get the option unless they live in certain places.  Also I feel the way you do about ABS, about airbags, convoluted dash computers, power windows, power tailgates, and much more.  I grew up without those things and am still alive to talk about it.  I don't get a choice now a days.  It seems every year they cram more and more junk into their cars just to keep charging more.  I don't need power windows, I have a hand that can turn a window crank.  I don't need power tail gates I can move my arm up and down.  I wouldn't have "totaled" my Firebird if the airbags hadn't deployed when I hit that curb.  I was happy with the simple things.  I don't need a back up camera because I am not so irresponsible that I would buy something I couldn't drive. However I do want ABS on my scoot.  I have had too many soccer mom's in their GMC HugeSonOfaBitch nearly kill me because they can't be bothered to pay attention.  I have gotten lots of practice braking in emergency situations and it is scary when you have less than three seconds to get on those brakes and you're instinct is to mash on those levers.  It is even worse when it happens and you are on a painted part of the road or it is wet.  Stig posted an article a bit ago and i've read another one similar to it.  In practice humans can't brake better than a well made ABS.  Computers just think quicker and don't get adrenaline rushes.  Kawi has actually got my attention with this scooter.  From where I sit it looks like Kawasaki is beating Kymco with their own scooter.  If I were in the market for a Downtown the J300 would steal my business away from Kymco.

[zombie]

Max... You just argued both sides of the discussion.

ABS is great for main stream America. It is even better for newbie riders/drivers. It is a royal PITA for experienced riders that expect a certain reaction from their machine that never happens.
Sometimes you NEED that slide or loss of traction to change the outcome of a situation.

I only posted up the bladder deal as a matter of discussion. They actually do work to prevent tire lock up, and can be retro fitted to ANY bike of ANY size, and on either wheel. I have 4-5 of them in my shop that I have taken off of various bikes due to the riders requests. If anyone wants a pair to experiment w/. I'd be happy to post them out.

To some ABS is a must. to others... not so much.

[NeoGenesisMax]

Ha sometimes I argue with myself too. Some of my posts should be followed by a BAC tag.

[gn2]

BTW

I was not wrong.

"Sudden over-application of the brakes, or braking on low-grip surfaces (surfaces with a low coefficient of friction) such as wet asphalt or manhole covers may cause a motorcycle’s wheel(s) to lock up and slip. ABS was developed to prevent such incidents. Kawasaki ABS systems are controlled by high precision and highly reliable programming formulated based on thorough testing of numerous riding situations. By ensuring stable braking performance, they offer rider reassurance that contributes to greater riding enjoyment.

And to meet the special requirements of certain riders, specialised ABS systems are also available. For example, KIBS (Kawasaki Intelligent anti-lock Brake System) is a high-precision brake system designed specifically for supersport models, enabling sport riding to be enjoyed by a wider range of riders. And by linking the front and rear brakes, K-ACT (Kawasaki Advanced Coactive-braking Technology) ABS provides the confidence to enjoy touring on heavyweight models. Kawasaki is continually working on the development of other advanced ABS systems" -Top Speed .com

Directly from the J300 review

If you mean this revew you have misinterpreted it.
The paragraph you quote is a generalised explanation of ABS, it is not a description of what is optional on the J300.
If you look further up the review under the title "ABS Available" you will see that "ABS control comes care of a lightweight Bosch unit."

ABS should be mandatory on all road vehicles.

[BettinANDlosing]

ABS should be mandatory on all road vehicles.

Give me one reason skilled riders should suffer at the expense of novices? I would never want to be forced to but a bike with more expensive features that hinder the way the bike responds to my gentle touch!