Author Topic: 70 cc jetting  (Read 4857 times)

mroc

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70 cc jetting
« on: February 04, 2015, 01:57:23 AM »
Hey friends just finished dropping in a airsel 70cc trying to save timehate jetting. Stock was 92 was thinking either 100 or 105 am I thinking too big. I was thinking bigger safer but don't wanna be to far off. Anyone do.this kit and what jet did.you end with?
Note everything else stock on bike.

mroc

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Re: 70 cc jetting
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2015, 02:02:26 AM »
New bbk

zombie

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Re: 70 cc jetting
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2015, 03:23:34 AM »
There is no way to guess. I have a 152 right now on a Corsa jug.
Get an assortment from 95 - 115. See where that gets you, and then you can go steps of 1 to get it perfect.
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

chaz35

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Re: 70 cc jetting
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2015, 03:15:41 PM »
I take it you are using stock pipe?  Will that work OK?
1st and 2nd usually have an unfair advantage.  3rd is usually the best, can learn the most from.  paraphrased from Don Quixote, over 400 years ago, still true today

zombie

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Re: 70 cc jetting
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2015, 07:48:35 PM »
The OEM pipe will allow the engine to run but it may not be matched to the powerband of the jug. More power can be made when the pipe, and jug are matched. No harm will be done tho.

Some cases make less power with mis matched parts.
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

chaz35

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Re: 70 cc jetting
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2015, 10:46:52 PM »
I have noticed several BBK installs without aftermarket pipe (like this one).  Seems like may want to get pipe 1st, then if wanted more hp still, then do the BBK.  IDK, just thinking these puppies run pretty well at 50cc with just aftermarket pipe and jetting.

I guess like Z says, depends on barrel installed.  That brings up question, how do you know what you are getting with BBK, full race or street porting?  If I were to do one, I would want street porting, hence the question.

Another question:  I guess you don't pull the engine out of the frame to swap out the parts?  mroc, how long it take to install?  I am OK at turning a wrench, but pretty slow.

Cheers
1st and 2nd usually have an unfair advantage.  3rd is usually the best, can learn the most from.  paraphrased from Don Quixote, over 400 years ago, still true today

BettinANDlosing

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Re: 70 cc jetting
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2015, 11:44:46 PM »
BBK, especially sport 70cc kits, do not need an expansion pipe to run right. Your overall MAX power will decrease by a few HP without a matched pipe, but the TORQUE will be about the same and at a more useable RPM. I plan on doing a full build on my 2001 Zuma Vertical, and use the stock pipe for torque and sleeper sound (Hard to tell cops your bike is still 49cc if it's 120db!!). Might take 5-10mph off my overall top speed but my build is for wheelies on that scooter, so I want all the low end torque I can get. If you are going for 100% top speed then a pipe will help. You will loose a little off the line, and lower RPM, and your engine will need to rev higher to "get on the pipe", anywhere from 9-14k RPM. The stock pipe allows the Sport kits to last much, much longer due to lower RPM. Gas mileage will also stay closer to stock, instead of getting cut in half with an expansion pipe. If you purchase a "race" bore, those will be utterly pointless on stock exhaust, and honestly pointless to ride on the street re-ringing every 1500mi. As far as installing the kits in the bike, no problem at all with most Kymcos. If you've done it before, and have the cylinder prepped (Ring gap, chamfer, etc), its a one or two beer type of job. The L/C engine takes slightly longer due to coolant burping. I can replace top end on the A/c Kymco engines in under 30 minutes including plastic removal. I honestly would suggest doing the BBK BEFORE a pipe, the main reason being that say you buy a pipe for the stock cylinder, that pipe will not be the right setup for any kit. Your better off with a kit, then if you need more power you can get a good matched pipe for your kit. Different kits take different pipes, you have to research what other people have tried, preferably dyno testing. I've put cheap aluminum 70cc jugs in the old People 50, had it pegging the speed-o with only a kit and lighter rollers. As far as the OP question, If all you have done is a kit, no airbox mods and stock everything else you should be under #100 main jet. I would bump up the a/f screw a bit and break the cylinder in with a half oz of 2t oil premixed in the gas. If I had to guess, which is all any of us can do, you'll end up around ~#92-95 main jet. Start at #100, go run it for a while see how it feels then check the plug. Don't go full throttle for more than a second or two until the motor is broken in. Your not going to get accurate plug readings until the motor is broken in, so just start big and go by feel. No one on the internet will ever know what jetting to use on almost any bike, it's just guessing like the Z master said. Good luck though!
2002 Kymco B&W 300; MRP 78MM "300CC", Naraku cam, Yoshimura rS3 exhaust, 17g Sliders, Yellow torque spring drilled airbox, stock carb #115 main #40 pj.

2001 "Yamaha" Zuma AKA MBK Booster; MHR OverRange, Dellorto 19mm BHBG, Polini "big" intake, RS-3 Rear shock, Stock cylinder.

chaz35

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Re: 70 cc jetting
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2015, 12:04:06 AM »
OK, that's good info.

My used Super 9 LC came with tecnigas next R (I think?), so I don't have stock pipe.  I don't know if it came new with tecnigas or not, but suspect it did.  My 2005 People 50 has stock pipe and runs surprisingly well with it, in fact except for top speed, People 50 probably runs better than Super 9 LC, especially the CVT action.  People CVT is perfect, Super 9 LC CVT needs some work, not consistant like People.

Super 9 LC is dog if you start up a hill without engine ramped up, it will not downshift.  When its on the pipe it's great though.

I guess I need stock pipe?
1st and 2nd usually have an unfair advantage.  3rd is usually the best, can learn the most from.  paraphrased from Don Quixote, over 400 years ago, still true today

BettinANDlosing

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Re: 70 cc jetting
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2015, 12:55:20 AM »
OK, that's good info.

My used Super 9 LC came with tecnigas next R (I think?), so I don't have stock pipe.  I don't know if it came new with tecnigas or not, but suspect it did.  My 2005 People 50 has stock pipe and runs surprisingly well with it, in fact except for top speed, People 50 probably runs better than Super 9 LC, especially the CVT action.  People CVT is perfect, Super 9 LC CVT needs some work, not consistant like People.

Super 9 LC is dog if you start up a hill without engine ramped up, it will not downshift.  When its on the pipe it's great though.

I guess I need stock pipe?

Sounds like your S9 needs a stiff contra spring. That is the biggest thing I have seen with the contra spring, hill climb RPM. Stock spring the RPM eventually get VERY low going up a steep hill, or starting on a hill like you said. The stiff contra spring works to hold the rear pulley closed longer, keeping the gearing lower for a longer time. I have a HUGE hill that I like to test my CVT setup on, if you get the trans dialed in, your RPM should stay pretty much where you want them up hill. Dr. Pulley sliders also help a LOT for keeping rpm where they should be. That's one thing with a tuned pipe, the CVT has to be setup to match it PERFECTLY or else it'll run bad, even worse than stock sometimes.
2002 Kymco B&W 300; MRP 78MM "300CC", Naraku cam, Yoshimura rS3 exhaust, 17g Sliders, Yellow torque spring drilled airbox, stock carb #115 main #40 pj.

2001 "Yamaha" Zuma AKA MBK Booster; MHR OverRange, Dellorto 19mm BHBG, Polini "big" intake, RS-3 Rear shock, Stock cylinder.

chaz35

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Re: 70 cc jetting
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2015, 01:27:06 AM »
Yes, I think you are right, needs stiffer contra spring, may have some worn parts too.

I have 2 scooters, one at home, the other at son-n-laws 50 miles away.  I have been focused on the People 50 and have it at home.  After awhile, I will swap them and work on the Super 9.  It needs some attention, but runs OK.  I know it's CVT is not right, especially after getting the People 50 to compare with.

CVT is a little intimidating to me having never opened one up.  But, I have done some research and think I understand how it works.
1st and 2nd usually have an unfair advantage.  3rd is usually the best, can learn the most from.  paraphrased from Don Quixote, over 400 years ago, still true today

BettinANDlosing

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Re: 70 cc jetting
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2015, 01:41:28 AM »
Yeah!!! I love the People 50, I like the style even more than the Super 9 (No offense anyone!). Variator work might be intimidating but is actually one of the easiest parts of the scooter to work on. I suggest before even opening it up, get yourself an electric impact, or if you have a compressor use air. That is the only "special" tool needed for variator work. If you try and use a regular wrench it'll just spin the pulley. Other than that, put it together the way it comes apart and you'll have no problems!! It's the simplest transmission design other than single speed, most motorcycle transmissions are so goddamn complex it's not even funny.
2002 Kymco B&W 300; MRP 78MM "300CC", Naraku cam, Yoshimura rS3 exhaust, 17g Sliders, Yellow torque spring drilled airbox, stock carb #115 main #40 pj.

2001 "Yamaha" Zuma AKA MBK Booster; MHR OverRange, Dellorto 19mm BHBG, Polini "big" intake, RS-3 Rear shock, Stock cylinder.

chaz35

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Re: 70 cc jetting
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2015, 03:27:50 AM »
I have an impact so should be good to go.  I was thinking would get it open and then have to buy a special tool.  Thanks for posts, good info.  Cheers
1st and 2nd usually have an unfair advantage.  3rd is usually the best, can learn the most from.  paraphrased from Don Quixote, over 400 years ago, still true today

zombie

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Re: 70 cc jetting
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2015, 05:26:18 AM »
Youtube vids are the biggest help.

I performed Brain Surgery just a week ago by following a vid. It didn't go Exactly the same as the guy that posted but is't pretty close.
I got Twinkles to meow. It's really quite cute.

The dogs are a little worried now but I'll get to them later
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

mroc

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Re: 70 cc jetting
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2015, 04:13:53 AM »
Hey guys sorry for.my absence on this.post. I ended up installing a 105 mj on a.Airsel 70cc l.q. Unfortunately the bbk calls for a BR9HSA which are not sold in North America. My friend left for.Italy today and is.picking some up. Won't really matter in regards to the main jet after a few cycles first. I realized I had.a.extra technigas pipe kicking around so I thru it.on also. I will update in two weeks.when I.get my plugs.
yes one of.my super 9 was.a.dog.uphill I now use malosssi purple springs in all my bikes. Best 10$ upgrade also invest in a.set of tuning rollers stage 6 sell them.
The.install tear down build was 3 ish hours being slow and cautious. The tricky part is setting the head gasket outer seal it's a bugger.
My 2001 bws with 80cc athena does a 115km hour it's a.crazy.ride.

mroc

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Re: 70 cc jetting
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2015, 04:17:13 AM »
The bike I am currently working on.

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