Kymco GV250 aka Grand Dink / B&W 250 vs Burgman 400 AND... 12" vs 16" tires

[mrbios]

... it seems U.S. customers prefer the 16" wheeled models....

I'm one of those customers.  As a GV250 aka Grand Dink / B&W scooter owner for the past 3.5 years I think the GV250 strikes an amazing balance between the feel and ease of handling of a "small" 100 - 150cc scooter yet offers the power and handling to do 75 mph+ on the highway.  Great wind protection with a relatively "thin" profile that can still get between cars in traffic for California "lane sharing".

Complaints with 12" tires:
1. low ground clearance limits lean angle and thus turn speed.
2. I hit the center stand a lot - and I don't consider myself an "aggressive" rider.
3. pot holes especially when hidden at night practically knock the fillings out of your teeth.  I find myself saying 'wow' wtf, after being surprised by one.
4. Tires wear out sooner [almost bald at 6K miles] - as the tire rotates more often due to small size and are a real pain to change - Think about getting a flat tire in the rear + the hassle of dropping the exhaust. 
5. Limited suspension travel - means a very harsh ride.
6. Tire selection - lots in 16" think motorcycle, very limited choices in 12".

Ideal Tire Size?
While I like 16" tires I don't necessarily need something that big but I want something bigger than 12".  My ideal size is 14"+.

GV250 vs Burgman 400 and probably Yamaha Majesty
GV beats both for easy handling, lane sharing, off the line acceleration, slim non-bloated profile, outstanding smooth clutch / CVT operation - only vespa makes a slightly smoother transmission.

50mph+ Mid & top end:
The Burgman 400 & Majesty blow the GV away offering 90mph+ while providing as good or often better mpg and better high-speed handling.

Maintenance:
GV has some weak points - exhaust is a pain to reinstall and know to develop rattles and crack at around 10K miles.  Air filter is unnecessarily difficult to change. Radiator - tiny hoses trap air and make expelling air after a complete change a nightmare and could overheat the engine if ridden on the highway while air is still trapped around the water pump. 

PROS - easy to access and adjust the "screw type" two valves vs the nightmare of the Burgman's needless shim-under-the-bucket and the nightmare of Tupperware plastic to remove to access the motor.

GV's clutch lacks the various issues that the Burgman has had and offers better smoother operation.  Based on two 2007 Burgman 400's I rode I feel the GV has a little less handlebar vibration.

I bought my 2005 GV used 3.5 years ago with 2600 miles now I have almost 16K.  Only persistent problems have been - back light flickers and goes out on the speedometer display (only a problem at night) & exhaust has cracked repeatedly requiring me to weld it.

Final Note & Future Scooter:
I often ride my scoot 7 days a week - southern California = no rain and mild "winters".  Day in and day out my scoot starts right up hot/cold/ damp or even once in a while in the rain - totally consistent like a modern car.

FUTURE - I believe 350 cc's single cylinder like the Piaggio BV350 is the ideal  mix of power (for highway riding), high-speed handling, mpg and the all important thin profile that can slip through traffic while still offering good wind protection on cold days or at night.  400 / 500+ cc's brings undesirable bloat - width and weight, power that is rarely used or needed, poor mpg and makes the scoot too fat to get between cars.

[newby]

Thanks for the info, Mrbios. I just picked up a 2006 Grand Dink. So now I know what to look for.

[de dee]

  It sounds like you could use a people GTI 300   16 " wheels,   highway speeds ,  65 MPG,  or a downtown , same weight  , a little smaller wheels, 120/80   14 front ,   150/70  13 rear,  and it does the same on the road,   

[Mr. Paul]

My next ride is probably going to be a Honda Helix, so I don't have a dog in this fight. I am interested in the responses though. They may change my mind.

[Forbes1964]

So it seems as if my Xciting 250 was a decent choice too. Yes, it's a little heavier and larger than the GV250. But it has the 14" wheel in the rear and a 15" up front. It seems unbothered at 65, and only seems taxed at over 70. My 2000 model is fuel injected, a plus (in my opinion) to me it would be PERFECT if it could be exceed 80 for a little extra margin on the short stretches of 4 lane roads that I must use on my otherwise relaxed 100 mile round trip to and from work. From what I've read, the Xciting 500 uses significantly more fuel than the 250 and is about 70 pounds heavier. So aside from the larger wheels, it would share the same disadvantage of the Burgman and Majesty.


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[mrbios]

So it seems as if my Xciting 250 was a decent choice too....the Xciting 500 uses significantly more fuel than the 250 and is about 70 pounds heavier. So aside from the larger wheels, it would share the same disadvantage of the Burgman and Majesty.

I drove a Honda Silverwing 600 once and was blown away by the power of it's two cylinder engine.  Coming from the world of motorcycles the power and acceleration felt almost like a sportbike off the line.  I think the price at the dealer brand new is crazy at $9K+  I have also driven the Piaggio MP3 250 and 500.  I really liked both especially the power of the 500.  I also drove two single cylinder Burgman 400's.  My GV250 has a better feel to the belt drive and better low end torque.  Over 50mph the Burgman is much faster and I got one of them up to and indicated speed of 95mph on the highway and there was still more left.  The B400 also *seems* to generate more handle bar vibration at speed than my GV250. Now there is the Kymco 400cc scoot.

Most large Maxi-Scooters 500cc+ deliver poor mpg in the range of 37 to 42mpg despite some people trying to claim 60mpg.  Even my some of my worst tanks on my GV250 with the super tall Givi windshield and top case I have gotten as low as 46mpg!  My average is 48 to 52mpg with lots of extended driving at full throttle on the highway.

Lately, I'm thinking about a used mp3 500.  The power and refinement makes it an excellent machine combined with the two front wheels.  The BV350 is also still in the running as the best balance between power and great mpg.

[Forbes1964]

I drove a Honda Silverwing 600 once and was blown away by the power of it's two cylinder engine.  Coming from the world of motorcycles the power and acceleration felt almost like a sportbike off the line.  I think the price at the dealer brand new is crazy at $9K+  I have also driven the Piaggio MP3 250 and 500.  I really liked both especially the power of the 500.  I also drove two single cylinder Burgman 400's.  My GV250 has a better feel to the belt drive and better low end torque.  Over 50mph the Burgman is much faster and I got one of them up to and indicated speed of 95mph on the highway and there was still more left.  The B400 also *seems* to generate more handle bar vibration at speed than my GV250. Now there is the Kymco 400cc scoot.

Most large Maxi-Scooters 500cc+ deliver poor mpg in the range of 37 to 42mpg despite some people trying to claim 60mpg.  Even my some of my worst tanks on my GV250 with the super tall Givi windshield and top case I have gotten as low as 46mpg!  My average is 48 to 52mpg with lots of extended driving at full throttle on the highway.

Lately, I'm thinking about a used mp3 500.  The power and refinement makes it an excellent machine combined with the two front wheels.  The BV350 is also still in the running as the best balance between power and great mpg.

I get between 53-62 so far with my Xciting 250 with around 58 being the average when driven mostly 65mph with about 20 miles of 70 mph riding per tank. Maxed out is about 78 which is fast enough. If it could get just a few more mph top end for reserve when on those short stretches of 4 lane road driving. The speed limit is 65. But that's only a suggestion for some.


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[mrbios]

I get between 53-62 so far with my Xciting 250 with around 58 being the average when driven mostly 65mph with about 20 miles of 70 mph riding per tank. Maxed out is about 78 which is fast enough. If it could get just a few more mph top end for reserve when on those short stretches of 4 lane road driving. The speed limit is 65. But that's only a suggestion for some.

Good mpg and performance.  I had to laugh when I read: "The speed limit is 65. But that's only a suggestion for some. "

[hypophthalmus]

Going from a 125cc Yamaha with 12" wheels to a 250cc Kymco with 16" wheels in a city with astoundingly bad roads, I was amazed by how much smoother it was. Of course there's no way to tell how much of that is suspension or wheel size.

Steering is also much different. On 16" wheels, everything you do feels much more deliberate, which makes me feel like I have more control.