got another Super 9 LC

[Raindrop586]

  glad its working but sh**ty thing is once pipe is on gotta adjust carb all over  again.  Welcome to my pain . all i do latley is play with carb lol kinda frustrating but a learning everything is worth it

[chaz35]

OK, just got back from long ride, ran like a champ.  Probably put pipe on tomorrow.  Have BBK for People 50 2T I plan to start on now that S9 is running well.  Will post about that project in People section.  Thanks

[Triesandluth]

It almost sounded like a possible vacuum leak to me at first,  but glad you got it straightened out!

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[chaz35]

Having fun with 05 Super 9, installed Tecnigas Next-R pipe and really helps.  Initially had OEM CVT, which worked well with OEM exhaust.  With Tecnigas pipe, was sluggish until hit powerband, so I installed 7.5g Dr Pulley sliders.  7.5g sliders were too light, would rev to the moon, lost top end, so installed Malossi variator kit with 9g rollers.  This is same set-up I used on People 50 2T and was perfect on that scooter, but still a little sluggish from time to time on Super 9, but most of the time perfect, and great top speed.  I think Super 9 LC engine is ported different from AC engines, makes more power, but at higher revs.

I don't know how fast I am going, but it's probably the fastest I have ever gone on 49cc.  I am venturing out on 50/ 55 mph roads now, I am not worried about speeding tickets, but I am not in the way?  The Malossi variator is really good for top speed.

Next I will try the OEM 8.5g rollers that comes on these scooters.  At 1st, after I tried the 7.5g sliders, I thought maybe the torque spring was something after market and too stiff, but 2nd time I adjusted CVT, I pulled the torque driver, disassembled, cleaned, greased it, and it looked 100% stock Kymco.  Next, I will try lighter rollers and go from there.

Another interesting item, I have new torque springs: Kymco OEM, Malossi Green, and Malossi Purple.  Just pressing on them, I think the Kymco is definitely stiffer the Malossi, with Malossi Purple next, and Malossi Green the weakest, but hard to tell exactly.  Surprising to me, I thought the Malossi springs would be stiffer than the Kymco?  Maybe Malossi torque springs are weaker so you can run lighter rollers and waste less power?  Cheers

[chaz35]

OK, I installed Malossi variator with 7.5g Dr Pulley sliders and 100% stock clutch/ torque driver except with Malossi torque controller.  Just about perfect IMO for stock engine with aftermarket airfilter, Tecnigas Next-R pipe, rejetted carb 45 slow jet, 102 main jet.  Had great top end, took off from stop fast, no extra clutch slipping or too quick lockup, revs to powerband and stays there until starts to over-rev at top end, and can slow down and variator will bring revs back up everytime as needed.

I think will play around some with other torque springs like Malossi green and purple to see if will run well with lighter rollers.  I have 5g, 8.5g and 9g rollers, and 6.5g, 7g and 7.5g Dr Pulley sliders.  I am not sure Malossi torque controller really does anything, so may check with and without that too.

Went on long ride with son-n-law riding his 2013 Honda PCX 150.  Top speed with Malossi variator was approx 5mph more than with OEM variator.  I always follow him and was right on him all the time, on 45mph roads (we were going plus 50 with traffic) he didn't really have any top speed or acceleration on me.  Of course, on faster roads he can leave me, Honda PCX 150 can probably eventually creep up to 70mph (he has never gone that fast).  Cheers

[chaz35]

I compared stiffness between Malossi green, purple, and Kymco OEM torque springs.  I cut 1.5" piece of empty toilet paper roll and put it inside the torque spring to approximate length of the spring when assembled and compressed.  Then, I used a bathroom scale to measure the weight required to compress each spring to approx 1.5".  The stiffest spring was Kymco OEM, next Malossi purple and last Malossi green.  The difference in weights was not much, but you could definitely tell there was a few lbs difference between each spring as you measured from the stiffest to the lightest.

Next, I installed the Malossi green torque spring to test with Kymco OEM fly springs, Malossi torsion control, Malossi variator, and Kymco OEM 8.5g rollers.  I was expecting it to work well, except suspected would have problems re-accelerating.  I was surprised that it was about perfect, maybe rollers .5g too heavy, and re-accelerated fairly well.  The last set-up before this test was the same as the test, except it had Kymco OEM torque spring (stiffer than Malossi green torque spring) and Malossi torsion control was not installed.  Without the Malossi torsion control and a stiffer torque spring, I had more problems with re-accelerating which I would normally expect better re-accelerating with stiffer torque spring.  All this makes me think the Malossi torsion control must really help.

I think the Malossi green torque spring is probably faster because should take less power to function compared with the stiffer Kymco OEM torque spring.  Scooter did seem really fast, I may be pretty close to having CVT optimized.  Next will try Dr Pulley 7g sliders, because 6.5g and 7g sliders is all I have to try.  I think 8g sliders should be perfect, and will probably order some 8g, but we will see. 

Cheers

[Triesandluth]

Glad to hear.  I've been following this, since I'm planning to use a slightly lighter torque spring and lighter weights at some point.  Right now I think that my torque spring's too stiff which makes me need the 9 gram rollers to stay below 10k rpms. 
Thanks for sharing!

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[chaz35]

Hello Tries, don't you have BBK on your S9?  Did you ever install taller final drive?  The way mine runs, I don't think I really need BBK unless I install taller final drive.  I am guessing with BBK and taller final drive, S9 LC would be scary fast.  On the other hand, AC engine on my People 50 and I guess the same engine on S9's with AC needs BBK with stock final drive.

[Triesandluth]

Yeah,  bbk (bastard is broke down right now😢) but never did the final drive gear.  I've heard many people say that if you live in a flat enough area that you can run with just a pipe no problem.

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[chaz35]

I have one hill on 50mph country road that is my test.  Everywhere else, scooter powers along fine, but that hill (especially with headwind) will slow down scooter.  If CVT will shift down and keep revs up close to 8000, I should have enough power and speed.  When revs get down to 7000 I don't have enough power to keep speed up, so basically, I am in the way.

I still have a few more adjustments to test.  I think pretty close to CVT staying in powerband going up this hill and still have good top end everywhere else.  I may find only solution is BBK, but haven't given up hope yet.  I already concluded need BBK with AC engine on my People 50.

I didn't take my scooter, but went to Rocky Mountain National Park this summer.  Pretty obvious 49cc scooter would not do well in mountains lol's.  Yes, there is a lot of flat land where I live.  Cheers

[Triesandluth]

Yeah,  bbk is a must in some of the areas around me!

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[chaz35]

Got in Dr Pulley 8oz sliders, installed, and went on long ride.  Getting pretty close to as good as it gets w/ out BBK.  This scooter flies.  I am cruising on country roads 55 mph speed limit no problem.  Has great top end, I like to keep revs around 8000 and speedo is approx 1/4" past 80km/ 50mph so I think I am pretty close to 50 mph actual.  Most of the time engine is just loafing along, doesn't seem like working hard at all.

With 8oz sliders, doesn't appear to hurt top end any, and re-accelerates better than with Kymco OEM 8.5oz rollers.  Doesn't quite rev up to 8000 when you slow and re-accelerate, but definitely now goes over 7000 which is where starts to make good HP, so pulls nice.  I haven't tried for top speed, but seems like has lots left, I bet it will do 60mph with wind at my back, or especially slight downhill.    This has opened up whole new riding area for me, I now have hundreds of miles of good country roads around my area I can safely explore.

Next, I will try 7.5oz sliders, might help a little or be too much, we will see.  I think the Malossi green torque spring is helping.  At some point with more HP belt will probably slip and need stiffer torque spring.  But 49cc with just pipe, pod air filter, and carb re-jetted I think green spring is freeing up some HP that now gets to rear wheel.  Cheers

[Triesandluth]

Awesome! I'm having speed issues,  if you go to 49ccscoot forums there's stuff me and Amish are going on about

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[chaz35]

Yes, I used Amish's link and went to 49ccScoot.com, read a little, good site.  These scoots are fun the mess with.  I do think Dr Pulley sliders help with speed, but biggest benefit was the Malossi variator.  After I installed it, the black mark on the toothed face drive disappeared, looked like belt was riding 1/4" higher.

I don't think CVT will ever be perfect for all conditions, maybe always be a trade-off between top end and keeping revs in power band.  I am sure if you raced your scoot, you would be changing CVT for different tracks, weather conditions, etc.  Cheers

[chaz35]

Got in 7.5g Dr Pulley sliders, installed, and went on long test ride.

Maybe sliders just a touch too light, but 7.5g better than 8g.  Engine revs to 8000 and stays there.  Didn't effect top speed, still running the same top speed at 8000 revs.  I tried my test hill and powered up hill better, lost a little speed, but was maybe 10 mph faster going up hill against a wind, didn't feel like I would be holding anybody up.  Difference in HP at a little over 7000 revs and 8000 revs is substantial.  Wish I could put on dyno to see exactly where makes peak HP and torque, but I think 8000 revs is pretty close with this pipe (Tecnigas Next-R).

I say maybe sliders just a touch too light because, from dead stop and slower speeds, don't really need WOT, seems to want to over rev a little, just feather throttle, and takes off great.  When up to speed, and slowing due to hill/ wind, can go to WOT, then revs come back up to 8000 revs, and engine pulls/ sounds awesome.

I am finished with this one for awhile.  Seems plenty fast for where I ride,makes great top speed at 8000 revs, engine should last long time.  Cheers