got another Super 9 LC

[chaz35]

Carburetor a little funky, doesn't run right without closing off the air mixture screw.  Has always been this way since I originally got scooter running.  My fix was to install larger slow jet.  I had 45 in it and seemed to be OK, except idle was a little high, approx 2300 and erratic.  If I tried to get it lower, would go below 2000, and I imagined would be hard to keep it running after initial start until warmed up.  I ordered some larger slow jets:  48, 50, and 52 to try.

I tried 48 1st and didn't seem to make any difference.  I always thought maybe carb was still dirty after initial cleaning after I 1st got scooter.  So, I took off carb and gave it a good cleaning and put it all back together.  Appears it did need to be cleaned, with 48 slow jet and 108 main jet it was now very rich at idle, I adjusted the air mixture screw out to approx 3 turns to keep it running, but would hardly 2 cycle going down the street, was so rich.

I changed the slow jet to 45 and that fixed it.  Air mixture screw is approx 1.5 turns out now.  Still may be a little rich, may try 105 main next and/ or 42 slow jet. I was pleased, 1st time this engine has ever idled right.  Now has really nice idle at 2000 revs, could tell it was firing every stroke, was very consistent idle, always settled down to 2000 right on the nose.

Next, need to look at variator, it's not doing 8000 revs anymore for some reason.  Still a little above 7000 revs which is OK, but I can definitely tell engine is not at peak HP until closer to 8000.  I wonder if the Dr Pulley sliders have flipped or need a little cleaning and grease?  Maybe engine is down on power because jetting is too rich, I don't know.  Scoot is running very well, just not perfect.

Went riding this afternoon, 1st time with long johns on, still got cold, be glad when spring gets here.  Cheers

[chaz35]

CVT working Ok, but not as well as earlier, performance deteriorated for some reason.  Originally, CVT would increase revs to approx 8000 whenever I gave it WOT to climb a hill, ran into a strong headwind, or both.  Now, it will only rev engine to a little over 7000 at WOT when I need to re-accelerate.  My performance going up hills and into headwind has definitely fallen off.  Dead starts are great, actually maybe a little too many revs from dead start, but excellent take-off.

I think I am suffering from the dreaded dog leg in the OEM torque driver.  The angle is not steep enough at low speeds, so revs a little too much at low speeds, and at high speeds the angle is too steep, so when the torque driver makes the transition, revs drop off too much.  As I understand it, the angle is measured with 90 degrees being perpendicular to the pulley and 0 degrees being parallel to the pulley.  The higher angle moves the pulley out faster, drops revs faster.  I have Malossi torque driver 618317 for Kymco 49cc engines, that has the straight cut grooves with 2 different angles to try, but haven't been able to figure out how to install it, i.e. it doesn't appear to fit, without modification/ machining.  I would love to get it installed, think it would be great for CVT tuning.

So, I disassembled CVT today to see what's wrong if anything.  I was very careful taking off variator to see if Dr Pulley sliders had flipped, but looked OK.  I did notice appeared to be binding a little on variator ramp, but otherwise looked in great shape.  I think maybe my problem is a little binding between the variator ramp and the sliders?

Everything looked OK, so I swapped out the Malossi Green torque spring for the next stiffer one, Purple.  Then I cleaned the variator and applied just a touch of grease to the variator ramp area, and put it all back together.  This is the 1st time I have applied a little grease to the slider area, but have seen it recommended before.  I probably should have just greased the slider and put it back the way it was, but seemed like too much trouble for a small change.  Depending on how it goes, I may try 7g sliders, and put the green torque spring back next.

Tomorrow I hope to take a long ride to test and report will back.  Cheers

[Triesandluth]

I've recently been having issues with my torque driver and that crooked groove.  My symptoms are a bit different.  A stiffer torque spring should bring some rpms back for ya. 
The grease,  on the other hand,  will most likely be just a mess for you.  I've tried that and graphite with only negative effects.  But good luck,  nonetheless.  I'll be keeping up to see the outcome. Ride safe!
Is this what you're talking about with needing machined?  http://scooterinvasion.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2956

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[chaz35]

Yes, that is excellent thread with pic of the problem.

I am thinking about just cutting off the top of the seal collar, instead of cutting down the lip on the torque driver.  I checked the spring and it's OK, spring still has a little room for compression.  I would also probably add a spacer to support the bottom of the seal collar, but not sure that is necessary.  The Kymco seal collar is pretty beefy, would probably take the pressure of the spring, but the o-ring seal may get smashed too much, I don't know.

The bottom Kymco o-ring is a little thicker and appears it would work well as a seal to keep the grease in.  If you install a torsion control, like the yellow Malossi 2512828, it takes up about the same distance as the lip, so I might leave that part out.  Actually, with the torque driver that has straight grooves, maybe don't need the torsion controller anyway?  Without the dog leg, the spring should be be twisting back and forth less.

I used very little grease, so hopefully doesn't make a mess, we will see.  Was amazing how changed though, at 1st was working perfect, then started going south progressively.  I am hoping a little grease will make a difference, but probably not.

Are you using sliders or rollers?

[Triesandluth]

Good idea of cutting the collar.  Sounds like you already checked everything that needs checked,  now to try it!
I've been using rollers still.  I bought some 9g sliders,  but they make my rpms at take off too high again,  but top speed rpms better.  I was thinking that the aggressive ramps in the malossi variator don't like sliders like the stock variator did.  I'm still going round and round with torque driver settings,  making it hard to tune the variator.  I'm in search of a decent but not too expensive torque driver so that I can try this polini variator I discovered in an agility I bought.  It's face is 95mm compared to the malossi 89mm, which helps my top end drastically.  Unfortunately it's really sensitive to the dog leg grooves and drops out of the powerband at about 30mph,  making it very undesirable untilabout 40mph. 
I hope to get that figured out soon.  Let me know if you try cutting the collar e with that malossi torque driver. 

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[chaz35]

I am pretty focused on getting my People 50 BBK finished, then I want to install Malossi final drive kit.  Will eventually do something with the Malossi torque driver.

Yes, I have done a fair amount of research on the torque driver.  I think Malossi should modify their description to "may require modification for you application".  I was totally blindsided when I got it, doesn't look like pic they show in ad.  Scooter parts vendor was not helpful, actually I don't think they know how to install it.

Purple spring helped get it back to normal, but can still feel pesky dog leg in torque driver.  Weather has warmed a little and I can tell my carb jetting is too rich, engine down on HP.  I went riding last night and as it got cooler, my engine ran significantly better, was amazing.  When engine is running well as it can, dog leg isn't very noticeable.

I am going to change my jetting to 42 slow and 105 main, I think it's 45 slow and 108 main now, have air screw approx 3.5 turns out.  I must run my engines really rich.  I used to be into minibikes that had Honda G100 clone 97cc flathead engines approx 3hp.  I started rejetting the engines after I could tell HP dropped off because too lean when it cooled off late in the day.  When you ride a lot, can get really sensitive to how everything is running.

I am beginning to think all you really need for street riding is BBK, pipe, carb jetting, Dr Pulley sliders, final gear kit, and would run like a champ.

I mainly like the Malossi variator because it gives me an additional approx 5mph top end.  I tested the Kymco variator with sliders, and it works great.  I wondered too if the sliders were working properly in the Malossi variator, because of comments about them flipping, but I don't seem to have that problem.  I think they will last longer than rollers because of more surface area at contact points.  I am noticing appears need to have too high revs from dead start to get revs right mid range, and I think it's because of the dog leg.  Appears would be better to eliminate it with straight grooves like the Malossi torque driver.

I think Malossi torque driver is very cool, just wish it was a bolt on deal.  I am sure Malossi could easily make one to fit, may have a later version that fits, I don't know.  I have seen plenty of pics of Malossi torque drivers that don't have the lip.  Also, they don't need to machine down the weld on the pulley side, I assembled it and has plenty of clearance to leave the weld, like the Kymco torque driver does.

Thanks for ride safe reminder.  I've been looking at the Roadcraft section of this forum and has some really good safety vids, some scary ones too.  Cheers

[Triesandluth]

I did put the sliders in mine. I was trying to blame my rpm spike at takeoff on them,  then on the torque driver,  then on belt slip,  but now I think it's the clutch.  I believe it has had some oil introduced to the pads at one point,  now I'm not sure if I can ever get it right again.  I'm also going to try a new belt. 
I know a guy that swears that all these super 9's need is a pipe and carb tuning to be a 50mph street machine.  I prefer to spend WAAAAY too much time obsessing and tinkering.  I'm moving into the tgb now.  And maybe the agility again. 
By the way,  merry Christmas!

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[chaz35]

What springs on your clutch?  I like the OEM springs myself, with CVT, I don't think you really need to slip the clutch that much.  Yes, I like to tinker on mine too, very satisfying to make changes and have it run better.  However, I am a little frustrated with the People, got it running and very soon had another catastrophic failure.

Merry Christmas!

[Triesandluth]

I'm running a malossi delta clutch with white springs that came on it. The stock clutch with some yellow springs is only very very lightly different than this one in it's out of the package state. 
I believe I've remedied my problem with slippage.  I had adjusted a little while back to where the weights are in the middle and the springs at the least bit of tension on them.  I put them back to weights as far out,  to sling the arms of it faster and harder,  and the springs tightest again,  and that seemed to remedy it.  Now I feel like I can put my torque bearing kit back in so I can have the perfect down shift back!
I'll check to see what your catastrophe is...

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[Triesandluth]

I don't see it posted,  what happened?

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[chaz35]

I'll post something soon, trying to get over a cold, moving slow.  Cheers

[Triesandluth]

Right on.  Get well!

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[chaz35]

I changed the carb jets from 45 slow/ 108 main to 42 slow/ 105 main.  I also changed the torque spring from Malossi green to purple (purple's the next stiffer Malossi spring), and greased the sliders just a little.  Then I took it for a long test ride.

Right away I realized it wasn't an improvement.  Idle, take-off from stop was very good, but still had flat spot at dog leg, then once I pulled through flat spot, top end was very good.  Unfortunately, I changed too many variables, so I wasn't sure what was causing the issue, flat spot?  Was it the jetting or the grease on the sliders?  I think I will just change the jetting again to 40 slow/ 108 main and try that.  I know these little engines really like a lot of gas on top end, so maybe going to 105 was starving it for gas just a little, I don't know.

For the CVT, I can go stiffer torque spring or lighter sliders.  I like the idea of lighter sliders better, plus easier to change out, so I will try that next.  I already know what it will do, will rev to the moon on take off, then have great mid range, top end, and re-acceleration.  So, with dog leg torque driver, probably will always be compromise.

Getting close the trying Malossi torque driver 618317.  I made a spacer for the bottom to support the collar sleave, and now just need to shorten the collar sleave approx 1/4" to complete assembly.  I used the white spring I got in the Malossi variator kit.  I used a cut off grinder to cut off 1 coil.  Then I twisted it some to flatten it, and tried to squeeze it a little smaller ID, which was difficult to do.  It's made out of good spring steel, and doesn't like to change shape.  I came out of the vise and shot across the garage several times, I gave up because I was going to get hurt eventually.

Here's a pic of the spacer and Malossi torque driver.

[chaz35]

Another possibility is torque spring becoming weak.  I spend most of my riding time at or near top speed, so torque spring spends most of the time fully compressed.  I plan to start measuring them, as I have the assembly apart.  I can measure length, and weight to compress to the fully compressed length on a bathroom scale, and compare measurements over time.  Kymco service manual has minimum length for the torque spring, so I know it gets fatigued and needs to be replaced.  Would be discouraging if my torque spring is already fatigued.  Cheers

[Triesandluth]

I'm still thinking that my ultra high rpms at take off can be attributed to so kind of slip from power.  I'm trying to rule that out with a new clutch bell,  and then clutch.  I readjusted the settings on this malossi delta to sling out harder with the springs tighter,  that helped but I still get a bit of what feels like slip when it's first being run,  which is opposite what it used to be...
Nice use of that white spring.  I think that's what it was made for lol
I tend you build around a broken in spring to avoid troubles.  I figured that it can't get much weaker than the level of stiffness below it,  do I started one higher and let it wear in.  But I actually added back stiffness when I added the bearing torsion spring base.  I've tried to think of ways to measure the rear pulley opening force.

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