Super8 Electrical Issue

[wkreps]

So I'm riding home one night a couple weeks ago and notice the lights dim a little as I'm driving down the road. I was off the accelerator but thought it a little early for them to dim (like they do  at a stop light when stopped). Paid no mind to it other than thought it was a little weird and maybe the light module may be going. The lights still worked so I didn't figure that was it. Over the next week or so I'd go out to start it and I'd hit the starter switch and absolutely nothing. Then hit it again and it would start as normal. Sometimes it would take a third press to make it start. Over the next week it kept doing the same thing but I'd either manage to get the starter button to work or I'd kick start it with no issues. As I'm riding back and forth to work I've been monitoring the battery voltage. Normally running it would stay at like 14.0-14.1v. While having these issues, it was fluctuating between 12.5-13.5v. Once it got down to 12.7v the turn signals didn't give that nice dinker dinker dinker sound. The time between the noise was longer and muffled. You could tell the voltage wasn't high enough to run the turn signals. Then all of the sudden the voltage would jump to 13-13.5v and all would work well. One morning I noticed the brake light was out. Now I have a real issue. I recalled somebody finding that a connection in the brake light was causing the same sort of issue but then the next day all was working again. I went away for the weekend and now when I turn on the ignition I get no lights, no dash lights, nothing.

I started looking for the real issue tonight. I turn on the ignition and get nothing. I turn on my voltmeter which is wired separately and I have 12.7v. I checked all 3 fuses in the battery box and they were good. I checked the continuity per the service manual of the ignition switch and it was good. I started filming for a vlog and as I'm filming and there are no dash lights, they all of the sudden come on. I try the starter and it cranks away. I have a little trouble starting it but I liken it to the week it's been sitting. It starts and all seems working well. I hit the turn signal they they don't even come on. I hit the horn and I can barely hear it over the motor running. All of the sudden the dash lights brighten up for no reason. Now the horn and the turn signals work fine. The battery voltage quickly climbs to 13.6v. I shut it off with the ignition switch, turn it back on and it starts fine. So it is working (for now) but i know the problem is not fixed.

Anyone have an idea on what to look at next? My feeling it that it is a wire shorting out intermittently. But I have no idea on what to look for. What ever it is, it is not draining the battery cause it never seems to go below 12.5v, even after sitting for a week when it wasn't working. What could make it go from full power to half power or no power at all? When it has full power, all works as it should so I don't think it is a turn signal, headlight, brake switch wire, etc.  Would the main ground connection to the frame cause this?

Any suggestions appreciated. If I get this solved it is going on youtube. GET YOURSELF MENTIONED BY HELPING ME FIND THIS CULPRIT. Or I can be mum about your help but PRAISE YOU ON THE FORUMS.

[wkreps]

After speaking with coworkers and friends, they say it sounds like a grounding issue. Will look at the frame ground tonight and peel off the rest of the plastic. If the frame ground is good the I guess I just start at the battery ground and move out from there.

[Stig / Major Tom]

I was thinking main ground, too.
Came up on a LIKE200i last year. The main ground was working loose - causing an intermittant issue.

I don't know what all might show up when a battery is dying (bad cell, broken cell, etc.) but ....?
I know my son's Scion exhibited all kinds of weird  electrical issues on the dash & with lights - when his main ground was working loose under the hood. We cleaned & tightened that up and all was well. A faulty ground might blow bulbs, too? Or the bulb socket/wiring might be an issue?
Hope it is something as simple as needing a new battery.
Good luck, Stig

[wkreps]

All the ground wires are secure. I can't seem to find what it could be but it started working again so I'll try and drive it in to work on Friday. Wish me luck.

[wkreps]

Been almost a month and I haven't had a single issue. Me thinks it was because it got rained on twice and moisture was causing it. Ran like a champ since I took it apart and couldn't find anything.

[skishades]

I had similar issues with my Kymco Super 8 150. While I had it apart, I did a lot of updating which created new issues and learned a lot about how it works. Basically, the CDI sends a signal to the ECM r/t to rpms. At low revs, a signal goes out that tells the ECM to reduce power. This prevents battery drain at idle by the headlights and helps when starting the engine. An error can occur at high rpms when the CDI is limiting the engine and it will cut out the signal to the ECM. It makes the ECM think the engine is off which cuts the lights. I replaced the CDI and ECM and only got short lived results before the problem kept repeating. It is in the design of the ECM and CDI. Shortly during this fix, I had replaced all my lights with LED's including the headlights (not legal due to light scatter but I resolved that on a different thread) which tricked the ECM to thinking the lights weren't even working, resulting in a set of different problems. The fix, for both the original and the mods I made, was to wire the headlights directly and bypass the ECM entirely. I had the extra power due to the low draw from the LED's so I had no starter issues from the bypass. I know it started well for me when I first by passed the ECM before the LED's but can't testify how it would start on a cold day or with a weak battery. If you found another way to solve the problem, I would love to hear it.

[DMblues01]

Getting rained on twice shouldn't cause an electrical problem, unless the problem was already there. I don't have a garage, and my Super8 lives outside in the elements for almost 2 years now. Plus, I ride in rain all the time.
Only issue I have gotten was needing to clean the contacts in the starter switch recently, but that took over a year and a half to develop.

[wkreps]

This issue is back. My daughter has been riding the scoot and she say when she turns the key, no lights, no nothing. Hit the starter button, nothing. Just thinking out loud but if it was the brake switch, it wouldn't not make the lights come on so I don't think it is that. Wondering if it may be the kill switch. Does that kill lights and everything?

[xsel777]

I had an issue where it became more and more difficult to start as the day progressed  with multiple starts.
Eventually I pinned it down to the brake light connection on the handle bars.
Cleaned that up and no problems since.


 Sent from my Samsung Note 3 with Tapatalk

[wkreps]

Got home Friday night and the daughter was troubleshooting the issue and thought she'd go at the fuses. She replaced a rusty one and it started working (coincidental). Then immediately went back to the no power situation. On a positive note though she did fix the non working clock. Sunday I took a look are the wiring diagram (me not good with electrical) and saw there was a second frame ground. Time to tear the tupperware off and find it to see if it is loose. First  though I decided to pull out the CDI from the battery compartment cause of the rusty fuse and see what it looked like. Looked good so I proceeded to tear off all the plastic. Got that done and for some reason decided to plug back in the CDI and try it. All worked like a charm, multiple times. WOW all of the plastic torn off and I didn't need to. But on a positive note I have a likely culprit. I'm wondering if vibration has something to do with it so I'm going to foam in the CDI and put it back together. Also plan on checking the connecter using a multimeter and the manual to see what it is supposed to read. If all good then next time I can check those readings again to see if it is wiring or the CDI. I'm on the right path correct?

[CROSSBOLT]

Been using the Bill Lear (Learjet) principle on this by not thinking about it for while. You may have multiple poor contacts vexing you. Grounds, fuses and connectors. All can use that dielectric grease once you separate and reconnect. Inject the female ends of the connectors, slather each terminal lug befor reassembly and do the same with the fuses. I gotta do my fuses! Hope you still have the "tupperware" off so all that is really easy.

Karl
 

[wkreps]

Thinking out loud here.Wondering if it is stator wiring related because with no electrical I can still kick start it. When acting up the battery sits at 12.6v when off. After kickstarting it stays at 12.6v. Today while running it started working for a moment. I knew because the voltage of the battery went directly to 13.5v. I turned the key off and then on again. Lights came on and I started immediately. Then the lights dimmed and voltage went back to 12.6v. Turned off and on again and it was back to no start, lights or anything.

Now there was some corrosion on the positive terminal of the battery but I cleaned that with baking soda last night and hooked back up today for these tests. Just trying to think of everything.

[Stig / Major Tom]

I could write a book about what I don't know about electrical circuitry....
But at 0:Dark30 with a fresh cuppa Joe at Tim's place......So here goes with a fresh brain:
When you are in that no start mode.....use a new brake switch. Disconnect one and jump it....then replace the other with your new switch and activate it.
See if this fixes no start issue.
If it does...replace both brake/start switches with new ones.
Some of these switches are kind of generic....and pretty cheap to purchase.
Other idea is to replace the kill switch.
That's all I got.
(You can see how my scooter got a few new parts when my TPS died. I  Didn't fix my
LIKE200I ....but now have nice set of spares. The thing is -- those brake switches are fiddly...essential, easy to replace and cheap.)(did I mention that they are essential and cheap?)

[wkreps]

Had it all apart again the other day. I was thinking about the fact that whenever I take it apart it all starts working again out of the blue. I decided to turn the key on and start taking the fairings off one by one and looking to see if it turns on (power). Well it did when I pulled out the wiring from the rear (brake, turn and license lights). Whoo Hoo I found it! It was late so I put it away for the evening and decided I would tackle it the next day after work. So I look over everything in that wiring harness. Examined each and everyone of the wires to check for cracks or exposed wiring that may cause the issue. I found nothing. All I do know is that at one point I tried tucking all those extraneous wires into a little hole where they come out of to try and clean things up. Even made a video on it.


So now I've retrofitting that back to the original and we'll see if that helps. The power definitely came back to me when I pulled on that set of wires. I know it wasn't hard enough to jar the wiring back into the mid section of the scoot. I thought for sure I'd find the culprit wire this time but alas, no luck.

[CROSSBOLT]

Well, maybe, Wayne. You might have found a wire broken INSIDE the insulation. Also consider a terminal lug or other crimped-on terminal like inside one of the plug shells. I know you found something! Now ya gotta figure out what it is!

Karl