Author Topic: Blew it up when jetting?  (Read 6469 times)

zombie

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Re: Blew it up when jetting?
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2009, 10:17:52 PM »
While there are formulas to figure jetting, I don't even look at the numbers anymore. If you have two of the SAME scoot, and try to jet them exactly the same, one of them will still need to be tweaked. I ran mine for more than a year with what I thought was a good set up, and have since gone up at least 2 sizes on all three jets. I wouldn't even want to try to figure where the difference is. I just started figuring forget the numbers, and look at the plug/ listen to the engine. What I assume happened to dirtyd was he was running rich all along, until he swapped the air filter. Running slightly lean would heat, and dislodge all that carbon on the dome, and valves. In a way it may have been what stopped him from doing any real damage. Once you get it sorted out a little Sea Foam, or OMC Carbon Guard in every tank will keep the carbon out of your engine, and exhaust. Come to think of it, have you done a compression test? Worn rings would be a suspect for abnormal carbon. Same with valve seals.
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dirtyd

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Re: Blew it up when jetting?
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2009, 06:33:22 PM »
What I assume happened to dirtyd was he was running rich all along, until he swapped the air filter. Running slightly lean would heat, and dislodge all that carbon on the dome, and valves. In a way it may have been what stopped him from doing any real damage.

I believe your are correct as well.  The thing is, word says his derestrict jet was 85, and this only had an 82!  The stock was 80 in mine, and thinking how scoots are usually jetted lean for emissions when they are new, I wouldn't have thought the 82 would be rich, but more like where I should be. 


Thats why I sell a complete kit that will upgrade your scooter and still keep it reliable. I have over 2 years of R&D with this engine and have cases on the shelf with bad bearings after customers upgraded to 82cc kits (purchased from other shops).


I wish I had a Agility to mess with there is something a bit different on the engine that is a mystery.

???

Daniel
----------------------
'06 SYM Jet Euro X 50
'09 Agility 50

zombie

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Re: Blew it up when jetting?
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2009, 01:28:22 AM »
Which Carb. do you have?
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Dr. Moto

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Re: Blew it up when jetting?
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2009, 02:18:35 AM »
The Kymco Agility uses the 139QMB 50cc GY6, however if your jetting was lean then there is something I must be missing. That or the shop has its diagnosis wrong. Either way I would like to know more about this problem and Josh hasn't returned my phone call.

Im all about contentious improvement and as most of you know there are a lot of variations from build to build. Maybe Kymco is using a different carburetor than Im familiar with, I doubt it though. Especially since flextrainer's scooter is so very fast with my 72cc bbk and NCY transmission kit. I guess in a way Im second guessing myself when I really shouldn't be.


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flextrainer

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Re: Blew it up when jetting?
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2009, 11:58:59 PM »
Hey guys I've been out for a few days..work. I am still running the same set-up and no hiccups. I do have the kehin carb instead of the kymco carb. The person I got the scoot from had swapped the stock carb for some generic carb and I asked him for the stock carb. I completely went through the stock carb and it ran like crap. I used a kehin off a scoot that had blown up. I haven't touched it in about two weeks and I drive it about 38 miles everyday! It's ready for the second oil change since the rebuild. I change it every 550 miles. 94 main jet is perfect with the needle set one slot from the top (all the way down). That is with head work, exhaust work and intake work.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2009, 12:01:45 AM by flextrainer »

Dr. Moto

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Re: Blew it up when jetting?
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2009, 07:03:47 PM »
I talked to Josh over at the scooter garage and this is what he had to say.

I just copied and pasted our convo, I hope he dosent mind.

Jeremy,

Either the bike was not run long enough for an adequate plug chop, or it was running lean. I couldn't tell you, as I wasn't tuning the bike. I just saw the plug after the fact, and the valve.

The exhaust valve had white deposits and such on it, which is another indication to me that it could have been running lean.

Now, it also had a lot of carbon build up. It's possible that the compression ratio was a bit higher than it was supposed to be due to the excessive carbon deposits. Higher compression ratios require higher octane fuel, and they run hotter. That's another possibility.

I too was surprised that a 98 would not be slobbering rich for that engine. Again though, I am not/was not doing the carb adjustments and such on it... he brought it to me when it broke and he put it back stock. I fixed it and he went on his merry way.

~ Josh


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wordslinger

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Re: Blew it up when jetting?
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2009, 07:43:00 PM »
I talked to Josh over at the scooter garage and this is what he had to say.

I just copied and pasted our convo, I hope he dosent mind.

Jeremy,

Either the bike was not run long enough for an adequate plug chop, or it was running lean. I couldn't tell you, as I wasn't tuning the bike. I just saw the plug after the fact, and the valve.

The exhaust valve had white deposits and such on it, which is another indication to me that it could have been running lean.

Now, it also had a lot of carbon build up. It's possible that the compression ratio was a bit higher than it was supposed to be due to the excessive carbon deposits. Higher compression ratios require higher octane fuel, and they run hotter. That's another possibility.

I too was surprised that a 98 would not be slobbering rich for that engine. Again though, I am not/was not doing the carb adjustments and such on it... he brought it to me when it broke and he put it back stock. I fixed it and he went on his merry way.

~ Josh

..again...I find this interesting...If the good Dr Moto would take a look at my "read a plug" post, and share any observations he might have, I would be very much appreciative...

..i reckon I have a GwangYang carburetor...at least that is what zombie reckons..I have "CK50QT-5" on top of the slider cap...as yet, I haven't been able to cross ref that number...zombie sent me a link...but for whateve reason, I couldn't get it to work...

peace
..every mod (action) necessitates a (reaction) mod..

zombie

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Re: Blew it up when jetting?
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2009, 08:17:43 PM »
Hey slinger, If you copy,and paste the part # on the top of your carb. Put it on google search, and use the "translate this page" option you will find the page I posted. It goes to a KOREAN company ( I first thought Chinese) That makes a replica of the Agility. Your part # goes to their stock carb. Manuf. by them. I am curious about second & third opinions on your plug as well...
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

wordslinger

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Re: Blew it up when jetting?
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2009, 08:28:06 PM »
Hey slinger, If you copy,and paste the part # on the top of your carb. Put it on google search, and use the "translate this page" option you will find the page I posted. It goes to a KOREAN company ( I first thought Chinese) That makes a replica of the Agility. Your part # goes to their stock carb. Manuf. by them. I am curious about second & third opinions on your plug as well...

..it just keeps translating over and over and over...
..every mod (action) necessitates a (reaction) mod..

zombie

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Re: Blew it up when jetting?
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2009, 08:34:24 PM »
Try updating your JAVA. That usually fixes pages that reload. Maybe try a different browser if that doesn't get it.
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

wordslinger

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Re: Blew it up when jetting?
« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2009, 09:14:33 PM »
Try updating your JAVA. That usually fixes pages that reload. Maybe try a different browser if that doesn't get it.

looks like the "CK50QT-5" is actually a model # for my scoot altogether...Not what I have the service manual for...

...I can't get the site to display all the specs...dang....
..every mod (action) necessitates a (reaction) mod..

wordslinger

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Re: Blew it up when jetting?
« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2009, 09:36:02 PM »
...Engine is the CK139QMB-2....
..every mod (action) necessitates a (reaction) mod..

Dr. Moto

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Re: Blew it up when jetting?
« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2009, 09:49:40 PM »
...Engine is the CK139QMB-2....


Very interesting.


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zombie

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Re: Blew it up when jetting?
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2009, 12:40:03 AM »
Some more looking into the Manuf. of your carb is on MY X-Mass list. Maybe the variations in tunning are some sort of "plot" to keep American scooters non competitive! Yeah Right!
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

wordslinger

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Re: Blew it up when jetting?
« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2009, 05:25:03 PM »
Some more looking into the Manuf. of your carb is on MY X-Mass list. Maybe the variations in tunning are some sort of "plot" to keep American scooters non competitive! Yeah Right!

..I'm having real difficulty with those chinese sites...

..the CK50QT-5 apparently has different piston rings...I've gathered that much at least...
..every mod (action) necessitates a (reaction) mod..

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