Author Topic: A125 dead  (Read 2848 times)

axy

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A125 dead
« on: December 19, 2009, 05:34:41 PM »
Yesterday it was -9 C (16F) and A125 was working normally, it was driven the whole day.
It fired without problems in the evening too.

During the night there was a snow storm here and today I went out to clean the snow, including the snow that fell on A125, People 250s and my car.

I tried to start A125 and it won't fire up. The starter turns normally.
The rear brake lever is frozen.
The right handle feels very funny and I wonder if the lining might have frozen.
.
Now it's 21F outside (-6 C), windy and dark and I spent hour and a half doing the following:
- disassemble front Tupperware around handlebars
- checked right handle, looks normal, maybe something was broken further down
- tried using hair dryer on the left handle with no results, still frozen
- the micro switch on the right side works because I see the rear brake light working
- tried cranking it like mad, it will not fire up

Finally, checked connector on CDI,  removed battery and charged it for 30 minutes, so it is 100 % full.

The spark plug was changed 2000 kms ago. The original one lasted almost 11000 kms and still looked like new when replaced (scoot has 13.500 kms).

Now I am pissed. I will wait for temps to increase (probably from Tuesday on, forecast says the temps will go from -9 C to 17 C overnight with storm and rain) and see if it will work then. If not, I have to bring it to the mechanic because I have no freakin' idea what to do.

These scoots do piss me off. In 30.000 kms you have at least 20 freaky incidents like this that can drive you crazy, no matter what brand you buy.

I did not try to start the People 250S, it worked yesterday evening too (we had a corporate Christmas dinner with video conference from other sites around the world so I was there in the evening with the scoot). The car is buried in snow and I have uphill access road to the main road that is still not cleaned, so I think it will be a mess to go to work on Monday (snow is a rarity in my neck of woods).
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Kymco People GT300i 2017 ABS Euro4
Kymco Agility 125 2008

(Past: Kymco People 250S, Piaggio Beverly 200, Kawasaki ZR-7S, Yamaha TW125, Kymco Cobra Cross 50, Peugeot Zenith 50, Piaggio NRG 50 mc2 72 cc Naraku kit)

zombie

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Re: A125 dead
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2009, 09:08:01 PM »
As for the stuck handle my guess would be, since the scoot was warm any snow falling would melt maybe flowing into the cable for the rear brake. As it cooled down the water froze. Most likely the entire length is ice inside. I believe it is the rear brake lever that controls the safety interlock to the electric starter. My thought being the interlock could also be frozen. I don't really understand how the starter will turn if the interlock is frozen but there may be something else compounding the problem. May also be condensation formed in the warm carb, that settled to the bottom freezing on the jets. Could you bring the scoot inside for 5-6 hours? Maybe just a good de-frosting will do it.
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

axy

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Re: A125 dead
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2009, 09:45:58 PM »
As for the stuck handle my guess would be, since the scoot was warm any snow falling would melt maybe flowing into the cable for the rear brake. As it cooled down the water froze. Most likely the entire length is ice inside. I believe it is the rear brake lever that controls the safety interlock to the electric starter. My thought being the interlock could also be frozen. I don't really understand how the starter will turn if the interlock is frozen but there may be something else compounding the problem. May also be condensation formed in the warm carb, that settled to the bottom freezing on the jets. Could you bring the scoot inside for 5-6 hours? Maybe just a good de-frosting will do it.

Hi Zombie,

it is not just the rear brake that can actuate the electric circuitry to start the enginer via microswitch, it is EITHER front or rear brake pressed.

In the old scooters, it was just rear brake (for example, on my 1999 Peugeot Zenith), but on all Kymcos and almost all other scoots it is either lever.

The problem is that front brake lever works normally (as I said, you can see rear light being turned on, indicating that microswitch is functional). Also, when I press the start button, nothing happens and while starter button is pressed, when I still holding it press the front brake, the starter can be heard! This means that this circuitry is functional and something else is wrong.

It is possible that there is water in the carb that is frozen, but temperature has been below 0 for a few days and there were no problems. Also the scooter drives excellent and there are no symptoms that would indicate problems with water in the carb cup.

Also I do not understand frozen rear brake cable as it is new and not damaged.

Furthermore, I am pissed because I think there might be something wrong with the throttle as it feels kinda strange and does not return to neutral position.

Like you said, I will wait until it gets warmer. Major weather change is anticipated for mid next week.
I hate when scooters break down so much that they cannot be driven because I always have problems finding the way to transport them as there are no specialized tow services for bikes and believe it or not, shops that repair scooters do not provide such service here but leave it to you even if you would want to pay for the service.

I even have problems finding out somebody who will change tires on my scoots because morons usually do not want to work on scoots because it means dealing with two more screws (front disc calipers and few screws that hold exhaust pipe). I literally have to beg around to have my tires changed.

I hope that all meat eating quadripeds in your household are doing fine.
---
Kymco People GT300i 2017 ABS Euro4
Kymco Agility 125 2008

(Past: Kymco People 250S, Piaggio Beverly 200, Kawasaki ZR-7S, Yamaha TW125, Kymco Cobra Cross 50, Peugeot Zenith 50, Piaggio NRG 50 mc2 72 cc Naraku kit)

zombie

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Re: A125 dead
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2009, 02:25:28 AM »
Just to boost your confidence it may help to look at the easy problem first. The throttle cable! Mine started to act odd one morning. I couldn't get full power, and when i let off it would stay at a high idle. I had to twist fairly hard to get up the only hill in town, and at the top I found the cable had snapped leaving me at full throttle on the down hill side. I had to shut the key. I found it had frayed at a point on the frame where the casing had rubbed thru. The fray was enough to keep it wide open when it broke. You may also be able to tackle the tires at home. Dismounting can be done by standing on the bead, and sort of bouncing. mounting is easy if you keep the opposite side of bead in the center of the rim. Or maybe just pull them off, and bring them to your local guy to do the swap. My thought for the condensation is it would only take 1 drop of water to form, and freeze. You would never notice it after it thawed, and got sucked up on the first start. The babies are MY pain... Every time 1 goes to his/her new home it tears a little bit of heart out. I get sooo damn attached to these little beggars. I feel for you, one after the other, then back to the first. Maybe get a bottle of good wine, some cheese, and crackers, a good movie, and pretend you are in New York...FORGET ABOT ITTT!
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

axy

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Re: A125 dead
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2009, 10:23:31 PM »
Just to boost your confidence it may help to look at the easy problem first. The throttle cable! Mine started to act odd one morning. I couldn't get full power, and when i let off it would stay at a high idle. I had to twist fairly hard to get up the only hill in town, and at the top I found the cable had snapped leaving me at full throttle on the down hill side. I had to shut the key. I found it had frayed at a point on the frame where the casing had rubbed thru. The fray was enough to keep it wide open when it broke. You may also be able to tackle the tires at home. Dismounting can be done by standing on the bead, and sort of bouncing. mounting is easy if you keep the opposite side of bead in the center of the rim. Or maybe just pull them off, and bring them to your local guy to do the swap. My thought for the condensation is it would only take 1 drop of water to form, and freeze. You would never notice it after it thawed, and got sucked up on the first start. The babies are MY pain... Every time 1 goes to his/her new home it tears a little bit of heart out. I get sooo damn attached to these little beggars. I feel for you, one after the other, then back to the first. Maybe get a bottle of good wine, some cheese, and crackers, a good movie, and pretend you are in New York...FORGET ABOT ITTT!

I will report in more details in 2-3 days when the temperature rises.

Today I could not get out of my yard with a car and had to go to celebration of my gf's grandma's birtday, so I had to snow-scoot on P250S.

Heaps of fun.  ;D :D ;)

Here are a few pics... The first two were taken close to my house, at a bend just below it...

It is close to -10 C (14F) - usual winter temp here is closer to 5-10 C (40-50 F).

I parked my scoot closer to the main road (400 m away) as I live on the top of the small hill... the road is not cleaned, as you can imagine...
---
Kymco People GT300i 2017 ABS Euro4
Kymco Agility 125 2008

(Past: Kymco People 250S, Piaggio Beverly 200, Kawasaki ZR-7S, Yamaha TW125, Kymco Cobra Cross 50, Peugeot Zenith 50, Piaggio NRG 50 mc2 72 cc Naraku kit)

zombie

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Re: A125 dead
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2009, 12:30:08 AM »
Our Farther Who ART in Heven, Give Us AXY Tomorrow! Harrold Be Thien Name...
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

axy

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Re: A125 dead
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2009, 06:23:04 PM »
Today the temps jumped up +15 C, from -11 24 hrs ago to +4 C right now.
The Agility has defrosted and runs NORMALLY. No problems with throttle either.

My gf emailed the mechanic and he says that problems with scoots having frozen lines, cables, scoots is something he encounters quite regularly. He said the only way around this issue is to disconnect all cables and fill them with grease or oil.

I grease all joints and cables on scoots quite religiously and after every washing but this is obviously not enough.

Strangely, I have never had such a problem on People or any other scoot or bike I've owned before.
---
Kymco People GT300i 2017 ABS Euro4
Kymco Agility 125 2008

(Past: Kymco People 250S, Piaggio Beverly 200, Kawasaki ZR-7S, Yamaha TW125, Kymco Cobra Cross 50, Peugeot Zenith 50, Piaggio NRG 50 mc2 72 cc Naraku kit)

zombie

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Re: A125 dead
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2009, 10:00:16 PM »
I have never been able to get oil all the way through a cable. There is an adapter made that is supposed to seal off the end as you spray oil into it, but that has not worked for me either. Glad to here it is defrosting though.
"They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken."   Bobby Sands...

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