Malossi BBK for People 50 2T

[chaz35]

pace, you have W7 needle?  I am pretty sure I have W16 which I think is way thinner than W7.  See the below link to a Dellorto PHBG needle comparison chart.  If raising my needle doesn't do it, I need to order W6, W17, W15, W13, and W14 from leaner to richer in that order based upon the linked chart.  Note:  chart is apparently from AF1 Racing and probably good info.



next link is from Greenflag racing, probably good info and seems to confirm the above chart



I looked a little and couldn't find Dellorto PHBG needle sets or any needles at scoottuning.ca.  dellortodirect.com has all the goodies, but I understand shipping is high.  Cheers

[chaz35]

Success, raising needle did the trick.  Still need to tune some more, but can cruise without overheating, yea!  Runs like champ, definitely more acceleration than Super 9 LC, but probably not more top speed.  Gas mileage not so great, but can probably get it better with more tuning, Dellorto supposed to be best for mileage.  I guess next mod will be Tecnigas Trek pipe.

I experienced the plug fouling WOT, so know main jet is a little rich.  1st time did it, I though stuck engine again, but CHT was too cool, only approx 350F.  Treatland has W6 needle, best I can tell the next leaner needle to try after W16, should have ordered it my last order, but didn't know enough.

I am very happy with it, all was worth it.  Cheers

[mclark999]

I'm finding out like you that tuning takes time. My People runs great once it's warmed up but having a horrible time getting it to start when it's cold. I finally have some time today to get the jetting set. First the main and then I'll start on the slow speed. Glad you got your overheating issue fixed.

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[chaz35]

The OEM electric choke and auto petcock is not the best IMO.  I have pod air filters on all of my scooters and almost always use a plastic grocery bag wrapped around the air filter to get started.  I have one Super 9 LC that the electric choke doesn't work and it starts easy with the plastic grocery bag trick.

With the BBK, I noticed the engine was easier to start.  I attributed it to more vacuum on the auto petcock allowing the bowl to fill up with gas quicker?

The 19mm Malossi Dellorto carb has nice manual choke, a lot better IOM than the expensive OEM electric one.  I upgraded to the $15 optional pull choke, and replaced the remote choke with the cable extension.  So far has started easy, no issues.  Cheers

[paceneedsstides]

nice glad you figured it out bro so what is you current setup? needle position, main, and idle jets? Also I still get that WOT fouling issue at WOT for any period of time it does scare the hell out of me like it's seizing but like you I'm way to cook for that it's the mid rang where I'm running too hot at and need to figure out. this is the kit I was talking about.

http://scootertuning.ca/en/carburettors/5133-carburetor-needle-kit-naraku-phbg.html

[chaz35]

I running needle all the way up, everything else is as I received with the carb.  I verified needle in my carb is W16.  I don't know what my main jet is, it's drilled out to 1.2mm, 1mm is approx 102 main jet.  I have some larger main jets coming in from treatland so will be trying them soon.

pace, that kit doesn't have any of the needles I think we need?  Treatland only has one needle on my list, W6 as I recall.

I am noticing as mileage goes down, so does amount of oil from the oil pump.  My gas mileage really dropped off as I tried larger and larger main jets to cool the engine.  The drop in oil pumped is approx the same as the decrease in gas mileage, for example:  going from 60mpg to 40mpg is 33% decrease in mpg.  And, the amount of oil pumped dropped approx 33% from 2.5oz to 1.75oz per gallon.  I noticed this earlier when mileage dropped from 60 to 50mpg oil pumped dropped from 2.5oz per gallon to 2oz.

I am going to add 2oz oil to the tank each fill-up, that and what the oil pump is doing should give me over 3.5oz per gallon which should be plenty of oil.  Based upon my experience with BBK, running just the oil pump is not enough oil.  Hopefully, the Dellorto will get better mileage after it's jetted better and I can decrease the amount of oil added to the tank.  Cheers

[paceneedsstides]

give up the fantasy about better mileage it's not gonna happen. I am premixing at 40/1 again since my cable snapped and so pump is just pumping idle speed oil which is like 100/1 all the time. My setup was based upon some extensive testing and experienced people over at 49ccscoot.com running similar setups. When running the AU 2T internals you need the thicker W7 needle to control flow since there is no air mixed with fuel in atomizer as there is with the 2T stuff. they run on leanest position I have mine one up from that to keep from being too hot in mid range. they run 90 I'll be moving to that soon I"m running way to rich at WOT on a 94. the only thing I haven't changed like they have is the slide I'm running the stock 40 slide while they play with theirs a bit to get right amount of air flow. one even filed his down to what he thinks is a 45. Them boys over there dont play you can get lost with all the info on that forum. I probably will get the set or try one that was a slightly slimmer and longer taper or same taper but longer length of taper.

[chaz35]

pace, you are way ahead of me, I spent too much time on OEM carb.

I think mine will run good with what I have after I get main jetted properly, too rich now.  I will probably also drop the needle to one notch from the bottom to test.  If need to run too rich to keep engine cool and still have fouling problem, can always run a hotter plug.  I understand NGK BR7HSA is next hotter plug and is available on the web.

After I get carb dialed in better, it's on to the CVT, and maybe Tecnigas Trek pipe?  Actually, I am wanting to put 19mm carb and Trek pipe on one of my Super 9 LC's.  I am pretty comfortable installing the carb now, and different pipe is easy bolt on job.  I think would give it a little more top end.  Cheers

[paceneedsstides]

well the problem you have now is with either way you go next....pipe or cvt upgrade its back to dialing the Dellorto in lol. The struggle is real bro it's a never ending issue after looking at some things I may try the W20 needle its a long taper and slightly wider at the bottom than W7 I will see IDK lol its a constant issue never gonna have it perfect yr round always playing with it cuz of temps or altitude or whatever lol.

[chaz35]

Got my main jets in from treatland, looks good cause largest one I ordered 112 is just a little smaller than my drilled 1.2mm which I know is too rich.  Also received the metal bowl with the large screw on the bottom, to change main jet, just take out one screw, how cool is that?

http://www.treatland.tv/dellorto-PHBG-race-style-float-bowl-metal-p/dellorto-phbg-race-bowl-metal.htm

I already tried my 102 main and a little too lean, so next will try 104, then 106, 108, 110, 112 until just right.  Last time I changed the needle setting was pretty easy to do too, makes all the difference after you have done it a couple of times and have a little more cable to work with.  If cable is too short, very hard to change the needle.

We are thinking opposite on needle.  If I need to I will try W6, which I think is next richer compared to W16 that I have now.  W20 will be leaner than W7 IMO, but may work great for your set-up IDK.  Cheers

[paceneedsstides]

the idea is to be leaner at WOT which is the tip of needle and richer in midrange for me. so that means a longer taper and a wider tip. going from a W16 to a W6 I don't think will make any difference for you at WOT as they are both the same size tip. I run a W7 which has a 1.4mm tip and a mid length taper. The W20 has a much longer taper and a 1.6mm tip which will definitely lean out my WOT some and hopefully the long taper will give me the ability to play more with the needle height and get it running good in all positions.
 As for your jets I was running a 109 main with the 4T internals in and it was a bit lean but I had modded my box and filter element. now with 2T internals and open racing filter I'm running a 94 and thats rich at WOT. You'll probably be good between 95 and 99.

[chaz35]

pace, I guess you will have to try, may work for you that way.  As I understand it, needle doesn't effect WOT, just 1/4 to 3/4 throttle.  If too rich WOT, then need smaller main jet IMO.

I haven't tried it, but read can test carb idle to 3/4 throttle without main jet installed and carb should work well, if idle jet and needle are correct.  With OEM Keihin PB16 carb, I kept going to larger and larger main jet and didn't effect engine getting hot mid range.  I think couldn't get OEM carb to work, because thinner needles not available, but will never know.

Since you have 2cycle nozzle and mine still has 4cycle our carbs will probably be a little different.  Try your set-up and I will try mine, see what happens.  For now, I think my needle W16 may be OK, just need to try some diff main jets.  Cheers

[chaz35]

I replaced 102 main jet with 108 to try based on pace running 109 with 4cycle nozzle.  Went for long ride.  Ran awesome, but still getting hot, have to be very careful not to overheat, hit 405F this run, but only after climbing long hill running mid throttle.  Plug fouled a couple of times WOT, so think main jet is probably rich.  Once engine gets hot, WOT will not cool it down.

Decided to order W6 needle.  While researching where to buy found DellortoDirect.com says about idle jet "This jet is used for adjusting the mid throttle range in carburetor".  So maybe the missing piece?, I have 42 idle jet and understood I was supposed to have 45, so maybe this is causing the overheating?, maybe don't need thinner needle?, I assumed idle jet was just for idle, maybe not?, I don't know.

So, I ordered W6 needle, 45 and 48 idle jets from treatland.  As soon as comes in will test some more.  Meanwhile, People is a blast to ride, just have to really watch the CHT.  Cheers

[paceneedsstides]

the idle affects all the way up to WOT but after 1/4 throttle not much I would try to raise your needle again if you're running hot at in mid throttle but still rich and cool at WOT unless of course you're up all the way. I ordered W9 needle from treatland as well as 86 and 114 jet lo I'm going to the Smokey Mountain Crawl and riding the Tail of The Dragon in a few weeks and want to have all my bases covered. W9 needle has same tip diameter as W7 but a longer taper so maybe that will help me out in mid. I run 38 in my idle right now and it's rich even with open filter I have 40 or 42, 50, and 55 so if you need one let me know.

[chaz35]

pace, thanks for offer on idle jets, will be early June before I know if 45, 48 work.  Have fun on your rides, I have North Texas Scooter Rally coming up 6-10/ 6-12, I am hoping to attend.  Cheers