Malossi BBK for People 50 2T

[chaz35]

Took another fairly long ride today, burned approx 1/2 gallon of gas, approx 25 to 30 miles.

Ran really nice, high temp on CHT was 369f, but mainly varied from 300 to 350f.  I am going 60 to 70kmh then slowing down to approx 50, then accelerating back up to 60 to 70kmh.  Max revs was approx 8500 as I recall?  I am past halfway, 2nd half will go faster, because I am going a lot faster.

I haven't run WOT much, if any.  Engine runs great, no funny sounds, sounds awesome even with OEM muffler, I think will be very fast.  Actually already fast, I just don't do sustained runs, or top speed runs, yet.  Cheers

[paceneedsstides]

glad it's all coming together for you bro

[chaz35]

Did some reading on max CHT temps for AC 2T engines.  Not a lot out there, can get them pretty hot if run rich with lots of oil.  No doubt better for engine longevity to keep max temp at some reasonable level.

Some of the motorized bicycle guys run <70cc 2T engines, and some run them pretty hard.  Some of them run CHT well over 400f.  When gets too hot, engine will fail, most often piston sticks, or very least engine wears out quickly.  Another limiting factor, alum weakens (permanently) if you get it too hot, I think something over 400f.

Best I can tell, you want to stay under 400f degrees, probably around 380f max, would be great if ran well at 320f.  I don't know what temps mine will want to run when I finally get it broken in and do extended runs at WOT.  CHT is going to be a very good tuning tool.  I think if running hot, that's an indicator it's too lean, simple as that.  So, time to go to larger main jet or just back-off and let it cool down.

Also, I have feeling ambient temp will have a lot to do with how hot engine wants to run:  cool day engine runs cool, hot day engine wants to run hot.  Really glad I got CHT, should be big help keeping engine healthy.  Cheers

[Triesandluth]

Nice going! I do believe about 380 is where you want to be. If you are still on the stock carb, the needle it's not adjustable, but there's ways to slightly raise it to richer it. Again on that thread from word slinger. Lol.

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[chaz35]

The needle on the stock carb, I bought some shims and tried to install.  Took awhile but figured out how to remove plastic retainer, you twist it.  Not much room for adjustment, so I put it all back together without the shim.  I did see that word made that adjustment too.

I ordered Malossi 19mm carb kit like pace's.  I think may help to keep temp down compared with OEM carb.  I have largest main jet sold for this carb installed already.  Seems to be about right, but when hot weather gets here, maybe will need more fuel to keep it cool?

Plus I want to try this carb on 49cc LC engine too.  Since I think I can rebuild one, I am not afraid of turning 10500+revs to see how fast that is?  After seeing how hot AC BBK wants to run, I am beginning to see beauty of LC engine.  Cheers

[mclark999]

Rode today some, like new TrailTech tach and CHT.  Only thing, I mounted it with sticky pad, then read the instructions about setup mode, button is on bottom of gauge, so can't change setup without messing up sticky pads lols.  Appears to be working OK, probably didn't need to change setup, so no problems.  Will probably eventually mount mine with screws through the plastic bodywork, but hesitated to do that for 1st mounting (holes in plastic bodywork).

I was focused on the CHT watching temps change.  It really gets hot if I am super easy with it, I guess carb is very lean at minimal throttle, high temp was 405f.  However, give it a little more gas and temp comes down runs between 300 to 380f maybe.  At idle, temp drops to approx 300 or less.  I think all is well, but glad I have CHT.  I didn't realize how lean it was running by being too easy on it.

Tach I didn't focus on that much, but probably max revs was something over 8000 for just a moment.  Mostly was at 6000 to 7000 revs.  Reading the instructions, I understand when shut-off tach will show max revs for just a second or 2 and then resets?

I can really see why recommended long break-in, this puppy likes to run really hot.  I think mine is doing well, feels great, will just keep on keeping on, have approx 250 miles now, just 250 to go.  Not too bad now, since I can run up to approx 40mph, then coast some, then gas it again, runs nice and cool that way.  What makes it hot is steady speed with very little throttle, don't do that for sure.

pace, hope you can get another scooter before you do your BBK, break-in will drive you nuts.  Cheers

If it's running that hot under part throttle, you may have to go with a larger idle jet.

[mclark999]

I'm about ready to upgrade my People 50 2t for more power. Especially need a little more for the hill I ride home on each day.  It's about a half a mile long and maybe 9% grade.  I already put lighter weights in my variator and that helped quite a bit. 

So I've decided to either put on a good pipe or a BBK or both.  The pipe and the BBK cost about the same, but the BBK is more work to install, but I'm a fair mechanic so that's not a big deal to me.

Chaz - for hills which gave you better performance?  I'm asking because I know you've been running the BBK without the performance pipe and you also had the scooter with the 50cc and performance pipe.  Top speed is not much of a concern for me.  Sure, I'd like another 5 miles and hour, but I'm guessing either one will give me that.

Most people recommend the pipe first, but if I could only afford one, which would you recommend.  I can always budget for the other later in the year.

Thanks,

Michael

[paceneedsstides]

spring or BBK gives you best performance on hills pipe or BBK gives you best performance over all just remember with BBK you got to break engine in all over again with pipe and everything else its bolt on and balls to the walls. Chaz I have installed my BBK and holy %$#@ my tune was goond with everything before hand but I'm not even at half throttle ans this bish hits pipe at 8500 and trys to hit 50 so I got to let off lol. I am posting thread in tech section and like section with pics.

[gosku]

I saw your thread in tech section, it's pretty cool! I'm thinking about getting the BBK too, is this the set you ordered?

http://www.amazon.com/Malossi-31-9987-M319987-2-Stroke/dp/B0057X6DOC

I would definitely like to go for 70ccm and as far as I know it should be possible, but it means I need to set the rollers/spring and carb differently. I already have pipe and some CVT upgrades and I'm getting 45 mph without problems but I'm going to start using my scoot for daily rides to work soon (it's 10 miles one way) and some extra hp would be appreciated

[paceneedsstides]

yes that is the one but you can get it for $60 cheaper at scooterpartsco.com they are super cheap on Malossi stuff and you can also get other things there and they do 7.99 flat rate shipping so I would get carb and BBK or Carb first if I were you since you have an aftermarket pipe already.

[chaz35]

hello mclark999, to answer your question, I would say BBK is probably most bang for $'s.

I have 2005 People 50 2T and apparently the OEM pipe for that year and prior years are good ones.  Later years pipes have some restrictions mine doesn't have.  If you have a later year, the Tecnigas pipe will give you more relative performance, compared to what I realized.

To get max out of pipe (I run Tecnigas Next-R) IOM you need to:  rejet carb, change rollers/ sliders at minimum.  Plus, I have installed Malossi variator, Malossi torque spring, Malossi torque driver.  Add it all up and for me it's more $'s than BBK.  IOM BBK alone will climb hills better.  Actually, I have set-up my People pretty much OEM components to see what the BBK by itself does for performance.  IOM People 50 2T with BBK alone is probably faster and definitely would climb hills better than pipe and a bunch of mods to CVT.

For top end, the Malossi variator will add some top speed with or without the BBK.  Not sure, but since BBK will turns more revs, BBK without the Malossi variator would be about same top speed as scooter without BBK, but with pipe and Malossi variator.  However, since BBK has more HP and torque, should be a lot faster going up hills.

If I had to do it over, I would probably still add BBK last.  It's been fun to add components as I go and realize an improvement.  Plus, I am not that good of a mechanic and BBK was a big challenge for me.  I almost didn't complete it, and cost a lot more than should have.  Rejetting carb, working on CVT is a lot easier than BBK, at least was my experience.  Cheers

[mclark999]

Thanks Chaz, That's very helpful. I do have a 2007 and it has the split exhaust that doesn't perform as well. I'm leaning towards doing the exhaust first also just because it's a simple bolt on. Either way, I'd have to jet the carb and adjust the variator.

I'm thinking of the Tecnigas Trek. Looks to be well built and have a pretty flat power curve at the top end which should make the variator fairly easy to tune.

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[chaz35]

Have approx 380 miles on it now, running well.  Temp seems to be under control better now, but still likes to build a lot of heat, if just cruise at constant rate like 40mph.  High temp today was 380f, but cools down fast and controllable, easy to keep around 320f cruising through neighborhoods 30mph zones, problem is with faster traffic 40 to 45mph zones, have to constantly let off/ get back on throttle to keep temp reasonable.

High revs approx 9000 at a little over 70km on speedometer, so going close to 40mph +- a few.  Can blast up a pretty good hill no problem, running good, engine has tons of torque, no need for CVT tuning IMO.  Will probably install Malossi variator for a little more top speed when I install Tecnigas pipe, and carb later.

Really liking TrailTech CHT and tach.  For some reason, CHT is easier to see, I have mounted on left side.  I even rode at night and was able to monitor CHT easily, just have to watch it when go near street lights and can get a quick look.  It cycles between max temp and current temp which is OK for me.

Tach seems to lag quite a bit, I maybe need to change the setting, think can make readout quicker?  When turn off, tach gives max revs reading for a few seconds then deletes, so have to pay attention or will not see it.  I am using tach for setting idle and observing max revs.  Later, should be useful for CVT tuning, but for now CVT is 100% OEM and working well.

Cheers

[chaz35]

I changed out slow jet to next larger size, went from 45 to 48 and seemed to help keep it cooler.  Carb is now jetted 108 main, 48 slow.  Tomorrow, I will try 50 and/ or 52 slow jet that's the largest I have.  108 is largest main jet I have.

Riding closer to normal now, except for top speed runs.  Cruising for longer periods now, at 40 to 50kms with CHT slowly rising to 350f or so.  Temp drops rapidly if back-off a little, so very controllable.  Highest temp last ride was 379f, as I recall.  Did a few WOT runs up hills, runs great.  Engine really likes to rev, will run up to 70kms, 9000revs with very little throttle.  WOT will run up to 70km plus quickly, but at low 8000revs, CVT behaves differently with more throttle.

Have approx 430 miles, just 70 miles left for 500 mile break-in.  I will still baby it after 500 miles, for sure.    Cheers

[paceneedsstides]

You're more patient than me I started blipping WOT for a few seconds after 200 miles and after 300 miles I'm done being nice to it. I have over 400 miles with the last 70 or so with two people on it. Mine runs on the cool side with just me on it I am still running rich obviously the highest I have gotten with two people on there is 368F. I'm usually under 350 with me at WOT. The uphill power is noticable I just can't get into pipe it's hard for me to get to 9600rpm I usually get to about 9200 on flats I will change the rollers back to sliders that are a gram lighter tomorrow that will hopefully put me right into pipe then I will play with the jets I'm running a 107 main on the 19mm carb with my airbox mod whistling when it's sucking air. Oh Chaz I bought thre 2T atomizer and buching since the Deloortos do come with the 4T stuff I had to jet all the way down to 90 main and still ran to rich had to put 4T parts back in so not sure whats up with that maybe it's the needle IDK but I am loving the BBK for sure.